Yeast rash or eczema? Pic included

thebevmeister · January 2015

my 4 month old had a yeast infection AND eczema (per pediatrician). We switched to disposables while treating the yeast rash for nearly 2 weeks with lotromin. I am so ready to get back to cloth (I've disinfected them). My daughter still has some redness in the diaper area. It doesn't look pimply and inflamed like yeast does, so I'm hoping its eczema, but I know yeast can come and go at varying degrees, so I'm not sure which this is??

thebevmeister · January 2015

Also want to add that when we are holding her, she prefers to face forward, so we usually hold her by her crotch, if that makes sense. Perhaps if it's eczema, that could be why it seems to stay red?

Kelly11235 · January 2015

What style of diapers are you using?

Mapleme has a point, it does look suspiciously like an insert shape.

You aren't by any chance putting a microfiber insert up against her skin, are you? (I'm guessing you're not, but I feel like I should ask, just in case.)

Are you using a Flip system or one of the other inserts + cover systems?

thebevmeister · January 2015

Im using Nicki's pocket diapers. No micro fleece against her skin. When she had the yeast rash, it was mostly that same shape, which you're right, is just like an insert.

thebevmeister · January 2015

I put her back in cloth tonight and made my own diaper cream for her (coconut oil, Shea butter, tea tree oil, lavender oil, frankincense oil, and some apple cider vinegar). I am SO over the disposables! She has very sensitive skin, so I'm hoping now that I've bleached her cloth diapers, and made an anti fungal cream for her that is safe to use with cloth, we will be ok. I don't like putting Lotromin on her.

Unknown · January 2015

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thebevmeister · January 2015

Yes, just on front and on her thighs, but not her butt

freezorburn · January 2015

thebevmeister said:

I put her back in cloth tonight and made my own diaper cream for her (coconut oil, Shea butter, tea tree oil, lavender oil, frankincense oil, and some apple cider vinegar). I am SO over the disposables! She has very sensitive skin, so I'm hoping now that I've bleached her cloth diapers, and made an anti fungal cream for her that is safe to use with cloth, we will be ok. I don't like putting Lotromin on her.

I'm curious about your diaper cream recipe, because this is the first time I've seen ACV mentioned for this. I know it has tons of health benefits, but isn't it a bit on the acidic side for something you would put on (and leave on, rather than rinse off) baby's skin? What proportion is it, in this recipe?

thebevmeister · January 2015

I tried treating the rash with ACV before I ever tried Lotromin. I diluted it (1 tsp acv and 2 Tbsp water), and dabbed it on her bum with a cotton ball, then covered with CJs Butter. It didn't help, but didn't make it worse either. Then the pediatrician saw it and said I should use cortisone cream and lotromin to get the inflammation down/kill the yeast, and then try the other remedies for maintenance (because I have read that ACV kills yeast, and read about dabbing it on them). When I made the cream, I threw 1.5 tsps in there just because (with 1/2 cup coconut oil, 1/4 cup Shea butter, and 15 drops essential oil - 6 tea tree, 6 lavender, 3 frankincense). I put it on her last night, so I'm curious to see her bum once she wakes up since this is her first night back in cloth and with that cream.

haileyq · January 2015

I'm not an EO expert but that seems like a high concentration, especially the TTO. Some TTOs are not safe for skin while some that you buy are diluted and safe fore skin. Maybe someone else knows more than I but is it possible that is irritating her skin?

freezorburn · January 2015

Chickypoo2468 said:
ACV buuuurns on any open skin. Please keep that in mind.

Yeah that's where I was going...

Rrrrrachel · January 2015

On the candida diet you have to not eat vinegar, too. Idk if that's relevant here.

Unknown · January 2015

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freezorburn · January 2015

Chickypoo2468 said:

ACV buuuurns on any open skin. Please keep that in mind.
Yeah that's where I was going...
I'm more blunt.

That's something I should probably work on.

nanabanana06 · January 2015

Totally not related, but OMG MK your ticker. I'm sure it's a joke. Please tell me it's a joke...

nanabanana06 · January 2015

Chickypoo2468 said:

Totally not related, but OMG MK your ticker. I'm sure it's a joke. Please tell me it's a joke...
What do you guys not understand about ALL THE BABIES

So, are you cooking 4 buns? If so, I will save you all the liquor. Oodles and oodles of liqour.

unaveragejane · January 2015

Dang, MK. That must have been some kinda turkey baster.

nanabanana06 · January 2015

Super sperm!

o_so_in_love · January 2015

Could it be an ammonia burn? Maybe her urine is reacting funny to the inserts even though it is not in direct contact with her skin... DD had some weird rashes and so we switched to all natural fibers for a while. I think that helped a bit.

freezorburn · January 2015

haileyq said:

I'm not an EO expert but that seems like a high concentration, especially the TTO. Some TTOs are not safe for skin while some that you buy are diluted and safe fore skin. Maybe someone else knows more than I but is it possible that is irritating her skin?

I don't know the answer to this but most of the recipes I've used call for about 15-20 drops of EO to about 2 cups of oil. Definitely something I want to learn more about. So far I have only used rosemary and chamomile EO in my homemade lotion. I love the smell of TTO and like it for aromatherapy and homemade cleaning products, but I think DS got a skin burn from the CJ's Spritz that I have, that has TTO in it, so I'm a bit nervous about using it in a lotion and want to do some research.

Regardless, I think the place to start with this rash probably has more to do with the insert-shape of the rash. It's possible the lotion is too concentrated, but I want to start by going back to basics. OP, how often do you change her? Any stink when she pees? Does diaper-free time help?

Also, check out this video on fit. I'm wondering because of the placement of the edge of the rash on her thighs, whether friction might be a factor. The video shows how the edges of the diaper should follow the pockets of the baby's crotch. Sorry if I'm grasping at terminology here, the video is much more clear.

thebevmeister · January 2015

The EOs in this cream are between a .25-.5% dilution, which is what was recommended by an aromatherapist for treating the rash. For maintenance mode, .1% is recommended. And I've only been using this homemade cream for 2 days, and this rash was present before that. I change her every 2 hours, and immediately when she poops. No urine smell. When I let her go without a diaper, the rash is still present but looks dry. Not like dry and flaky, but just dry redness instead of wet redness, if that makes sense. I will check out the video. Thank you. I also find the placement of the rash odd. I have a 3 yr old boy who was cloth diapered and we never had these issues. We definitely battled rashes (mostly teething related), but they were always on his bum, not his front. Hers is isolated to the front and thighs, and her bum is clear. And regarding the ACV, she does not have open sores or open skin.

freezorburn · January 2015

Did you complete the full course of Lotromin before switching to your homemade cream? Did the Lotromin not calm the rash down?

Also, what is your full wash routine, what detergent are you using. Are you using BacOut? Maybe her urine is reacting with something on the diapers and causing a reaction.

thebevmeister · January 2015

Yes, did Lotromin and sposies for 2 weeks (combined with cortisone cream for the first several days). It was totally gone about 2-3 days after the cortisone/Lotromin combo, then I continued with just Lotromin, and the redness came back (minus the bright red, inflamed, pimply rash). That's why I've wondered if this is eczema and not a rash at all. The pedi said she had eczema with the yeast rash, and cortisone definitely cuts down on inflammation associated with eczema, but obviously Lotromin won't do anything to that. I use a preset cycle on my HE washer with a hot wash, cold rinse, and add a 30 min soak and an extra rinse. I use Rockin' Green detergent, and did a 1/4 bleach wash when we switched to sposies to kill the yeast. Never used BacOut

TJ1979 · January 2015

thebevmeister said:

Yes, did Lotromin and sposies for 2 weeks (combined with cortisone cream for the first several days). It was totally gone about 2-3 days after the cortisone/Lotromin combo, then I continued with just Lotromin, and the redness came back (minus the bright red, inflamed, pimply rash). That's why I've wondered if this is eczema and not a rash at all. The pedi said she had eczema with the yeast rash, and cortisone definitely cuts down on inflammation associated with eczema, but obviously Lotromin won't do anything to that. I use a preset cycle on my HE washer with a hot wash, cold rinse, and add a 30 min soak and an extra rinse. I use Rockin' Green detergent, and did a 1/4 bleach wash when we switched to sposies to kill the yeast. Never used BacOut

Do you do a rinse first to get out all the pee and poo?

thebevmeister · January 2015

And thank you for the video! I have cloth diapered 2 kids and have been putting them on wrong all along!! Maybe the source of her redness is as simple as that? Not sure if that's possible?!

thebevmeister · January 2015

Yes it does a rinse before to soak

Unknown · January 2015

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freezorburn · January 2015

It can be hard to point to any one thing when you have a rash that you can't figure out. There could be several contributing factors, so it's good to brainstorm and try different things.

If you feel confident that you are not dealing with yeast any more then it's probably some kind of contact dermatitis. You want to avoid anything that could irritate the skin. Use products that will soothe and protect. Just be aware that even natural products, especially if you get high quality ingredients in the right concentration, can cause allergic reactions. Honestly I'm a bit skeptical about the proportion of ingredients in your homemade lotion, but that's your choice. A lot of people on this board have had good results with Grandma El's in cases of stubborn rash. So that might be something to consider.

As for the wash routine, a good basic wash routine should look something like this:

- Warm Rinse or Quick wash, spin out. (No detergent)

- Hot wash with detergent (for an HE machine, choose your longest cycle)

- Cool or warm extra rinse (warm is generally more effective)

Try changing your wash routine and make sure everything has rinsed out really well. If you are still having problems, consider a different detergent. Rock N Green uses a plant-based surfactant, and while that is fine for some, maybe it's an issue for your LO. If you want to avoid mainstream detergents, you might try a salt-based detergent such as Country Save or Tiny Bubbles. I think someone else on the board is trying Molly's right now, which also looks like it's really good for sensitive skin ... but still trying to figure out the wash routine.

Finally I just wanted to clarify that I asked about BacOut because some babies don't do well with enzymes. I suspect mine did not, but can't confirm because we were dealing with a bunch of other changes at the same time that we stopped using it.

thebevmeister · January 2015

Not being a jerk at all. :-) Yes, the machine drains the rinse water, then soaks and drains, then does the wash cycle.

thebevmeister · January 2015

Thank you for all the info/suggestions. I need to do diaper laundry today, so I'll try a couple different things. I have some Grandma El's, so I'll try that on her red areas. I was previously using CJs BUTTer, which I've never actually had much success with. Never worked on my son either. Cloth diaper creams are SO expensive, and I've never had much luck, which is why I tried making my own. Does anyone have a different homemade cream they would recommend?

freezorburn · January 2015

CJ's is lovely for keeping skin healthy, but I found that once a rash is established you need something stronger. Try the Grandma El's. Just a thin layer goes a long way.

For homemade, I've been playing with a basic recipe from online and this is what my latest batch looks like (I try to stick to food-grade ingredients since DS loves to eat lotion):

1/4 cu Grapeseed oil

1/4 cu Argan oil

1/4 cu avocado oil

1/4 cu coconut oil

1/2 cu beeswax pastilles

3/8 cu Shea butter

------------------------------

3 caplets Evening Primrose Oil

Dash vitamin E

~10 drops rosemary eo

~10 drops chamomile eo

Combine all the ingredients above the line in a pint-size heat safe glass jar. I use a canning jar. Set the jar in a hot water bath, stir occasionally until everything is melted and dissolved. Remove from bath. Stir vigorously every 15 minutes until room temp. I use a fork and knife, but you can get a really nice consistency if you use a stick blender. Just make sure you are scraping down the sides and bottom really well so that everything gets evenly blended.

When it's no longer warm to the touch, add the oils below the line, blend well.

If you suspect any allergies, you can leave out ingredients or substitute them with something that you know your LO can handle. The main thing is to keep the proportion of solid to liquid oils roughly the same. For example, I'm currently using 3/4 cu. of liquid oils. Can be any carrier oil or fancy (or cheaper) liquid that you like. And I would use no more than 20 drops of any combo of EO for this. If you suspect a beeswax allergy you can look into substituting some other cosmetic-grade wax.

ETA: while I was out running errands just now, it occurred to me that you should check the melting point of any wax substitutes to make sure they will melt during your hot laundry cycle. And you can use cocoa butter instead of shea butter if you like that better or find it more affordable (I don't know if it is, because I find the smell to cloying). Or don't use any butter, but up your coconut oil. You get the idea.

Rrrrrachel · January 2015

You might want to try some castor oil. We have the rash from hell here and what seems to help the most is olive oil warmed and steeped with dried chamomile flowers then a squirt each of avocado oil and castor oil.

freezorburn · January 2015

Calendula is nice too. I'm hoping to make some of my own calendula-infused oil one of these days, when I get organized enough.

Rrrrrachel · January 2015

Yes I need to get some dried calendula to do the same thing. That stuff is awesome. Also witch hazel.

freezorburn · January 2015

Or you could just buy Waxelene. What does a jar of Waxelene cost? Probably cheaper than most other products that are specifically marketed as CD-safe diaper creams. I really just set out to make a homemade Waxelene, because it's not available locally. And then I started having fun incorporating things that I like.

thebevmeister · January 2015

I do have Calendula Hydrosol (actually several hydrosols). I've been spritzing a blend of them on her bum but haven't noticed much difference. However, I haven't been super consistent with that. I have witch hazel too

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