STMs: How late is too late for toddlers (xmas eve question)

KJ1177 · December 2014

My side of the family (my parents, me, my sister, and my brother and our kids and spouses) usually goes to church at 5:00 pm and then to my parents house for dinner and present opening on Christmas Eve. Well this year I am stuck working until 5:30 pm and asked everyone if we could go to the later service at 6:00 pm instead, thinking it would not be a huge deal since it's only and hour later right?

Everyone else was cool with it except for my sister. She is having a fit saying that the 6:00 pm service is too late for her kids (10 months, 3 years and 5 years old) and that they will be too cranky and tired to sit through service so she wants to have everyone go to the 5:00 pm one and then I can just skip church and meet them at my parents house afterwards.

I of course want to go to the service but don't want to make a huge deal about having to miss it if this really is that big of a deal for her kids. I want them to enjoy themselves too! My question is, would your kids at similar ages be fine sitting through an hour or so long service at 6:00 pm or is that really too late for them? I kinda can't help but feel like she's just being a brat about the whole thing!

TIA! KJ

homegrown2 · December 2014

My 13 month old goes to bed at 730 on the dot... So depending on her kids schedule, she may be wanting to go to the earlier service so her kids can be at the dinner/open presents... I am in about the same predicament too with family...

lynndavid6912 · December 2014

DD is 2.5 and we start bedtime at 7, if she's had a good nap. She can stay up later if occupied and interested. That said, I personally would not take her to a 6pm church service, but I also wouldn't throw a fit if that's what the rest of the family decided to do.

graciesmurf · December 2014

You are the one who has to work. It's nice that the majority of your family can change plans, but your sister can't. It doesn't matter that you think that 6pm isn't too late; your sister does. If you take a moment and look at this through her eyes, you'd see that you, OP, are being selfish and changing the usual holiday plans and doing so very last minute. IMHO you're the one being a brat about the whole thing--trying to get everyone to accommodate the schedule of one person.

However, your sister isn't hosting dinner, your parents are. So, it's really their call when church/dinner happens. But you trying to change what usually happens even when it doesn't work for everyone is seriously shitty and selfish.

graciesmurf · December 2014

CityBee said:

When my almost 2 year old was a little younger, if we didn't get her to bed by a certain time, it was hell. Even worse if it was for something where she was supposed to stay quiet and still, like church. She does better now that she is getting older and can hang much longer than she used to, but if your sister is saying that her kids can't do it then I would trust her. It's really not a fun place to be in.

That said, sometimes when you're the one with kids, you have to make the sacrifice and can't really expect others to necessarily cater to what works best for you. You both have valid reasons for wanting it to be earlier or later so I guess it's more of a matter of who is willing to make the sacrifice.

This really rubs me the wrong way. Sister should not have to sacrifice the usual holiday traditions because OP could not take off Christmas Day. It's one week till Christmas! Sis has made plans to spend the day with her kids and their grandparents. It sucks that OP has to work, but the usual plans should not be changed unless they work for everyone. OP should wait and show up for dinner since she is the one with a conflict of schedule.

mamajack86 · December 2014

My son is 17 mos. and my family never understands why we avoid events that go later than 7pm. He's pretty set with a bed time (7:30-8)and by 7pm he's ready to start winding down. We wouldn't ever ask others to change their schedule to accommodate our son, we just sacrifice and miss out on things. It really sucks to have a crabby kid when you're trying to enjoy yourself so I understand why she'd want to stick to the earlier time.

graciesmurf · December 2014

mamajack86 said:

My son is 17 mos. and my family never understands why we avoid events that go later than 7pm. He's pretty set with a bed time (7:30-8)and by 7pm he's ready to start winding down. We wouldn't ever ask others to change their schedule to accommodate our son, we just sacrifice and miss out on things. It really sucks to have a crabby kid when you're trying to enjoy yourself so I understand why she'd want to stick to the earlier time.

OP (an adult) is the one asking everyone to change their schedule one week before Christmas. Sister and kids are happy with the usual schedule.

071115 · December 2014

I would not go to church at 6. My kids would try and run around and not be very well behaved.
I think since it is you that is disrupting the tradition it is you who will have to deal with missing church. The plans were set and you at the last minute decide to change them. That is on you not your sister.
You will under stand when this baby comes and you try to go out to late with a crank baby/ child. It is not a fun experience.

Bostonchelle · December 2014

My 2 year old is in bed at about 7:30 which means bath etc before then. She had a 6:45/7:00 bed time when she was about a year old. On top of bedtime my daughter would be starving (never a good baby/toddler situation) if she had to wait until after 6:00 mass for dinner). I would have said no to 6:00 church too especially if dinner was after. Sorry you may miss out on being with your family for mass but I'm with your sister.

honkytonk_kid · December 2014

Times like this I am thankful for my hooligan child who stays up way too late, lol. We would have no problem with 6pm. But I know most little ones need to get to bed much earlier than mine, and dealing with overtired kids is... misery.

OP I think you should just miss church this year. I mean- she might just be being a brat, or her kids might actually have a hard time that late. But since you're the one changing the plans I would take one for the team this year.

cafecreme · December 2014

IMO, 6pm wouldn't be a big deal. It's once a year; her and her kids can suck it up and go. If I were her I would just have the kids go to bed later the night before so they aren't as cranky. I mean, my daughter would be able to tolerate it, but her bed time is later, at 8-8:30.

But, if it was me, I wouldn't go anywhere near a church with a 10 month old. My DD is very frigidity and would yell and babble. We've skipped Christmas service the last 2 years because of her.

Unknown · December 2014

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lynndavid6912 · December 2014

cwbandthenewbie said:
My kid is 21 months and we adhere to a schedule because he functions best that way. Bedtime is 730. Asking him to sit and be quiet anytime of day is tough, much less as he's approaching his bedtime. So not only is he miserable, but so are we if we try to deviate.

People always talk shit about parents and their schedules. In many cases, the schedules are necessary.

This. Soooo much. My daughter's schedule is for her interest but also for our sanity. We've skipped family functions because ILs insist on scheduling things during her nap. Sorry, but until very recently, there was no way DD could skip her nap. It's a relatively short period of time in the grand scheme of things, so they can deal.

JCWhitey · December 2014

It depends on the kids. My nephew is the kind that needs to follow nap and bed time routines or he gets really cranky. My son can skip naps and stay up late and be just fine (17 months). I imagine that since she has three kids at least one is a tough sleeper.

FrecklesInside · December 2014

IMO, one person shouldn't be able to change plans for the entire family because they have work, especially when one of the people having to change plans is inconvenienced. Yes, as parents we can't always get our way to make a schedule work best for our kids, but that isn't the case here - OP is asking the entire family to adjust course because of her work schedule. That is selfish and ridiculous IMO.

As for the scheduling thing, yea, it might be a pretty big deal for her to have to change her plans by an hour. Especially if you're going to be gathering AFTER services. She probably wants her kids to be awake and happy for that part of the evening more so than any other and that is likely jeopardized by changing the schedule by an hour.

capulet · December 2014

My kids keep pretty late hours and are really resilient if their schedule is disrupted. Most of the time they don't get especially cranky toward the end of the day. But I know that most people's children go to sleep earlier than ours and turn into basketcases when they get tired. Plus, that's three young kids pretty close in age, so that's a handful for any parent to manage at church even under the best of circumstances, let alone if they're starting to turn into pumpkins. And I can only imagine how hard it is to handle bedtime with three kids that young. I think you would have to be either really relaxed or really regimented for bedtime not to be utter chaos every night. It sounds like a regimented schedule is what works for your sister's family. If it's that important to you to change it, I think you should offer to sit with her kids during church and put them to bed after dinner. Then you can find out for yourself if she's being a brat or parenting young children is actually harder than it looks.

Whitfry · December 2014

OP, how would you like your family to handle a situation like this once your baby is born?

honkytonk_kid · December 2014

Whitfry said:

OP, how would you like your family to handle a situation like this once your baby is born?

I mean, I don't think she's being totally unreasonable for asking if one hour makes that big of a difference. If you don't have kids or your kids don't neeeeed their schedule like some do it's not really crappy or selfish to not understand that yes, an hour could mean a huge difference. You just don't know.

genmccarley · December 2014

It doesn't seem like it could make a huge difference but it definitely can! Small children usually seem to have a shorter attention span and less patience at the end of the day anyway & the difference between 5 & 6 could mean a lot of tantrums and tried grumpy kid behavior that your sister would prefer to avoid.

My son doesn't go to bed super early 8-9pm and I still know that he would do much better earlier rather than later even if just by 1 hour. An hour can make a pretty big difference to kids so little.

t loves r · December 2014

Last Christmas my mom change our Christmas Eve plan/schedule and didn't think to mention it until the day before. Long story short, it was hell dealing with a six month old whose bedtime fell in the middle of dinner (husband and I had to take turns holding him, trying to keep his screaming from ruining the rest of the restaurants Christmas Eve dinner) and then take turns holding him outside of the sanctuary during church after dinner. I totally get your sister's side and understand she probably doesn't want her holiday to become a cluster fluck.

Whitfry · December 2014

honkytonk_kid said:

Whitfry said:

OP, how would you like your family to handle a situation like this once your baby is born?

I mean, I don't think she's being totally unreasonable for asking if one hour makes that big of a difference. If you don't have kids or your kids don't neeeeed their schedule like some do it's not really crappy or selfish to not understand that yes, an hour could mean a huge difference. You just don't know.

---quote fail---

I don't believe I made a comment on what OP should do, or even offered an opinion. I asked a question, the answer to which I am genuinely curious about.

When OP is the parent in question, what will her expectations be in regards to her family and how situations similar to this are handled?

If you're interested in my opinion, it's that OP should handle the situation in the manner she would want it handled if roles were reversed, since very soon they will be. Right now she is setting a precedent. It's up to her exactly what she wants that to look like. But one way or another, it will impact her future interactions with her family.

gnomemom · December 2014

An hour long service for kids that young seems difficult enough. Depending on when her kids go to bed, 6:00 might really be hard for them to do.

When my son was 10 months old, he went to bed between 6:15 and 6:30. That routine was important when he was little and we didn't deviate from it if we could help it. Now that he is older, he goes to bed about 2 hours later and would be totally fine being kept up even another hour or so. It depends on the kids.

LBeez13 · December 2014

I understand the schedule thing. My 17 month old consistently goes to bed around 7:00-7:30. We will do things and push it later, but if we don't have to, then we definitely prefer to stay consistent with his bedtime. I am sure once you have your own child you will understand a little better where she is coming from. I remember pre kids, I used to think parents made a big deal about little things and now that I have a child of my own, I totally understand. There are times when I just don't have the energy to battle or fight with my son so we choose not to do certain things. As a parent you do end up sacrificing a lot so I think for Christmas Eve, since you are still the family member without kids ruling your life, then maybe you can sacrifice.

JennyP0222 · December 2014

If it was doable for her to change the schedule for her little ones at such short notice, I am sure she would just do that. I am going under the assumption that most people would WANT all their family members to be able to participate in holiday activities. If she is saying it is NOT doable for her family, I would take her at her word and not assume she was being bratty.

All that said, I have been blessed with a flexible child that does not require a regimented schedule. If this was ME personally, I would change service time by an hour to accommodate my sister. But, I completely see/understand where that is not feasible for many families and I would just stick with the original plan if changing things up was not a good solution for all involved.

MrsLaurenandDan · December 2014

My guess is with their schedule 5 was already pushing it. I know I've bent the schedule for events like this. But then when it's pushed even more it just becomes too much. I would assume they are stretched to the limit already.

Ardmhs83 · December 2014

It totally depends on the kids. An hour service starting at 6 and ending at 7 is kind of late for a 10 month old. I think if they were leaving service to go right home, it would be fine, but if they are then expected to eat dinner somewhere afterwards, my 10 month old would have never made it! He was in bed by 7:30. People always wanted to say things to us to about letting him stay up later, but of course that is easy for them to say when they don't have to deal with the fussy-ass behavior as a result.

Since she has three kids, I totally get where she is coming from. I'm sorry...

Disneygeek77 · December 2014

You asked for them to change the schedule, they said no, so I think the burden is now on you. She's not being a brat for looking out for her family's best interest. Remember, they might have CE traditions of their own that they want to do once they are home and at a certain point they have to draw a line in the sand and say " No, we can't be out any later than this."

I'm just saying it might help to think outside of yourself with this one. Your sister has to juggle possibly three cranky kids and balance your family and her family's traditions all in one night. That can be hard and I don't blame her for doing what is best for her because this is her holiday too.

VOR · December 2014

I'll also add- it's CHRISTMAS EVE. I am putting my kid to bed ON TIME, if not early, so that he gets a good nights sleep. Christmas is going to be exciting and overwhelming for him. I want to start out the day on the best note possible- and that means not keeping him up later than usual.

mandi195 · December 2014

I think it really depends on the family and the situation.

Example, my moms entire side of the family gets together on Christmas Eve at my moms house (aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, etc). Dinner has always been at 5 or 5:30. Things get a little tricky because the placement agreement my DH and his ex have for their son states that we have him 8 PM the 23rd to 8 PM the 24th, so my family has moved dinner up to 4 PM so that there is time afterwards dinner for gifts and spending time together before DH and step son have to leave at 7 to make the drive to meet his ex wife. My family is fine with moving things, because that's how we are.

That said, my family also has members who work crazy schedules and can't always make events, and while we always try to accommodate, if it will be more of an inconvenience for the majority of the family than is worth it, then things go ahead as planned and the one individual joins when they are able to.

EDWHIP · December 2014

Anyone who doesn't think an hour later isn't a big deal has never been the parent of my child. She is and has always been like clock work. One hour is a huge deal. Luckily, my family knows this about DD and wouldn't want to delay dinner an hour later because they know her crankiness level would be through the roof. And don't think I haven't tried to adjust her schedule for this type of thing. It never works. Give your sister this one.

t loves r · December 2014

msspeedymarie said:

t loves r said:

Last Christmas my mom change our Christmas Eve plan/schedule and didn't think to mention it until the day before. Long story short, it was hell dealing with a six month old whose bedtime fell in the middle of dinner (husband and I had to take turns holding him, trying to keep his screaming from ruining the rest of the restaurants Christmas Eve dinner) and then take turns holding him outside of the sanctuary during church after dinner. I totally get your sister's side and understand she probably doesn't want her holiday to become a cluster fluck.

Nope nope nope. We would go home. I wouldn't do that to or for anybody.

A rookie mistake, I know. My husband and I said never ever again. Haha we will have to miss out.

FrecklesInside · December 2014

WTF @graciesmurf ?? I think there are excellent responses here and no one is showing a lack of class. Many, many people agreed with you, myself included, and you go and shit talk our BMB on another board? I'm glad they shut you down over there too.

Looks like you're the klassy one.

Ladylec · December 2014

My son just turned 2 on Sunday and he would be fine to stay up late BUT that is my son. I don't know your sister's kids and managing 3 at a time could be very overwhelming especially if any/all get cranky especially during a church service.

I don't think its right of you to ask everyone to change the normal routine just for you. Skip the service and meet up with everyone later.

This is one of those times that you will look back after having your baby and think "I was being a bitch when I said that."

okayestmom12 · December 2014

I agree with a bunch of PP's... That one hour may seem like nothing to you but to most toddlers it is the difference between them being super fun to be around and the devil incarnate.

DD is in bed between 6:30-7pm every night so the later service wouldn't really work for us. That being said, it is a special occasion and we could probably make it work but wouldn't stay long (if at all) for the festivities after service. Does that make sense?

JCWhitey · December 2014

Another thing, OP, if this is your family tradition why did you not ask to get off early weeks ago? I would maybe understand if they changed the schedule on you last minute after your work schedule was out but this sounds like a tradition soanning at least a few years. It sucks you will miss church with your family, but that falls on you, not them, in this case. You and your SO can always go later at night without family so it's not like you have to completely miss church unless yours doesn't do nighttime Christmas services.

PrimRoseMama · December 2014

(Lurker from parenting)
My kids (3 & 1) could probably do it at 6pm. However, they are night owls for toddlers. I think if you are the only one that can't make the earlier service then the others should do what they need to do for their families' schedules.

It's unreasonable for you to ask the rest to conform to your needs when you are the only one that can't make the service that works for others.

mangomimosa · December 2014

Looks like she was calling out the people who mention anything along the lines of "parents shouldn't expect others to cater to their schedules."

Which rubs *me* the wrong way. That particular issue depends so much on the exact situation… In this case I do think the OP needs to miss church, because it is her schedule conflict disrupting the standard plan. But the general point that parents shouldn't expect others to make sacrifices for their children is not always wrong.

RMama2012 · December 2014

It depends on the kids. Sometimes if my son skips a nap he is fine. Other times he is a nightmare. Kids are so different. I can keep my son out later if he is free to run around and play but if he needs to sit at a table or church, I wouldnt do it.

That said, would you rather your nieces/nephews leave early/be terrible at dinneror church/miss gifts (r whatever you do), or you miss church?

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STMs: How late is too late for toddlers (xmas eve question)

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