looking for hope regarding sleep

QOTR · November 2014

Hi Ladies. I don't stop in here as often as I should. When I have time, I'm trying to keep up on my BMB. I hope everyone is doing well. I can't believe Geeps & Guennie are celebrating birthdays with their little ones already!

My guy is almost 6 months and we're still in sleep hell. It's a daily challenge to have him get even 12 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period. He'll give us a few good days where I get hopeful that we're back on track and then it all crashes down again. He is so intense when he cries, that I'm really scared to try Ferber. I've created a horrible habit of nursing him to sleep and that is the only way he'll go down. And if he doesn't go to sleep while nursing, I have no other tools in the toolbox. He's never once fallen asleep laying on our shoulder or being rocked, cuddled, walked or carried in the ergo. He sometimes will fall asleep in the swing or while driving. Did anyone have a little one that struggled so much with sleep have it work out without formal sleep training? Do I have any hope? I can survive the sleep deprivation, but the constant worry that I'm doing everything wrong is debilitating.

shelley1002 · November 2014

First off you are not doing everything wrong. Some kids are just sucky sleepers. They all sleep eventually. How long has this been going on? Could it be a growth spurt? Wonder week? Teething?

QOTR · November 2014

He was a decent sleeper up until 3 months or so. We could put him in his crib drowsy, but awake and he'd settle. When it first started getting more challenging, I blamed all of that... 3 month growth spurt, me returning to work, 4 month wakefuls, a leap, teething, reflux. I think you're right - I think he's a crappy sleeper. But I also fear that I've created bad habits and that I'm making things harder on him in the long run. He only got 9 hours of sleep the other day. That's not even healthy for him!

Guennie · November 2014

My neighbor friend is going through this with her daughter who is now 18 months old. She is a horrible sleeper and constantly wants to nurse. They cosleep and she has been high maintainence from the beginning. I feel so bad for her because she never. gets. any. sleep. It's really taken a toll on her and I feel awful that I don't have any good advice from my experience as a nanny because she follows attachment parenting very strictly. While I believe in a lot of what attachment parenting teaches I really think if something isn't working for you it's time to look for alternative solutions.

Have you tried sticking to a very strict schedule and using music or white noise to soothe him? Music is the very first thing I tell people to try. My daughter goes down with her fisher price seahorse and the music always soothes her.

It's really hard to break the nursing attachment. You are his comfort and it's natural you are what he wants to settle into sleep. I'm so sorry you are struggling but don't blame yourself. I think if you decide on a routine you are comfortable with and stick to it, things will get easier. Maybe not perfect, you may have a crappy sleeper like you said, but hopefully an adjustment can be made.

I may have a few more suggestions when I'm not so tired, but let me know if you've already tried music. Hang in there mama!!

Geeps2 · November 2014

Oh QOTR I feel your pain!!!!! I too own a super sucky sleeper. I did a combo of Ferber and Dr. Karp (Happiest Baby on the Block) I don't want to make you feel like there is no light at the end of the tunnel but it didn't start to get better until recently. I really feel like the sleep training didn't really do much but stress both he and I. I think maturity helped things start to get better. He still isn't consistently sleeping through the night (he just turned one on Thursday). He still has his moments. Last week he was sick and got up in the middle of the night and it took an hour and a half to get him back down and he was inconsolable. Last night he woke up at 3:30 am crying hysterically fed him and he went right back to sleep. He too is still nursing (I wanted to be done at the 6 month mark)but he refuses any formula of any kind and the same with cows milk so I am stuck. I read this article in my desperation that you may be interested in https://kellymom.com/bf/normal/comfortnursing/ It made me feel a little bit better about ditching the sleep training, which wasn't working anyway because he just couldn't soothe himself to sleep. It has only been within the last few weeks that I can lay him in his crib awake and he will putz around his crib and eventually fall asleep. With him he just needed some time for his ability to self soothe to mature. I too have a little man that will throw down and get himself all worked up so the cry it out just wasn't for him. He would work himself up when I left and it would only escalate. I would go in as directed by the book and he would settle and the moment I would walkout he would completely melt down. I mean to the point of almost hyperventilating so I had to call it quits. It wasn't worth it to me. I will say I did use the Dr. Karp tips and still do. His room is pitch black when he goes down (except for some light up crib toys that go off on their own). I keep white noise on all night. I still nurse him to sleep at night (not at nap time anymore) but if he isn't asleep when he is done nursing I put him in his crib with his books or something to occupy him and he plays till he falls alseep, again this is literally within the last 3 weeks or so that this happened for us. It isn't perfect, he still isn't consistently sleeping through the night but it is getting better than it was.

MommyAtty · November 2014

Oh wow. Bless your heart. I cannot let my babies cry. I just don't have it in me. So we had to find methods to sleep train that weren't CIO. With DD, we used Baby Whisperer which has tips for breaking bad sleep habits, by the way. Baby Whisperer wasn't working with DS, so we used Happiest Baby on the Block methods combined with Baby Whisperer. It really will improve, but I'm a crazy proponent of ensuring your baby learns to self-soothe. Mainly bc i'm a life-long insomniac and I don't want my kiddos to suffer the way I have. Sleeping really is a talent/skill.

QOTR · November 2014

Thanks ladies. I haven't read any of the Baby Whisperer yet. I'll check it out. We've always used white noise, but haven't tried plain ol' music. That's worth a shot.

Geeps - I'm sorry you've had such a struggle! That is a nice article, and when he nurses easily to sleep, I do enjoy it. But here lately, nursing to sleep sometimes doesn't work. He'll nurse and appear to be almost asleep and then pop up and then roll over to his tummy. If I continue to try to nurse him to sleep, he'll just over eat and spit up. So then we're stuck with a wide awake baby for the next couple of hours until it's time to try to feed him again.

Over Thanksgiving, my sister was able to walk/bounce him to sleep. He's never once done that for my husband and me! I didn't know whether to kiss her or kick her.

I guess it's good to know he's capable of it, but it kind of makes it extra frustrating when he won't settle for us.

springbeduk2 · December 2014

Sadly no advice but I'm right there with you. Like, ditto everything you said except my DD will sometimes fall asleep in the snuggli if I'm moving around enough.

She will nap in a pnp at daycare but with me only nurses to sleep ( and back to sleep the many times she wakes each night) except for in the car (but wakes as soon as we get home) or sometimes snuggli. We tried a pnp over Thanksgiving and she was having none of it.

Also right there with you in feeling guilty/ worry over doing things wrong.

So anyway ...you're not alone!

christinasullie37 · December 2014

Sorry no advise for you here but Dd is 2 and still doesn't sleep through the night. Some kids aren't born to be good sleepers. We did baby whisperer, ferber, happiest baby and I even paid to have a sleep consultant write up a plan and unfortunately nothing worked. I have just now come to terms with the fact that Dd is just a crappy sleeper. Your Los is still so young and I wouldn't recommend Ferber just yet. And there is a way to do ferber without just letting the em cry and cry and cry. I fb you do resort to ferber then make sure you read the e entire book first. When ever you decide to do, you must be consistant.

URMySunshine77 · December 2014

My LO was comfort nursing until 14 months. I wouldn't have felt comfortable using Ferber before 12 months, but every baby has different needs. I think the first step would be nursing the baby before bed but putting him down awake. You might want to try nursing the baby an hour before bedtime and creating a new routine (like bath and books in between feeding and bed).

Have you read about dream feeds? One way that you can get more sleep is by going in and nursing your baby a few hours after he has gone to sleep. So if your baby goes to sleep at 8, you might want to dream feed him at 11 to give yourself some extra hours.

I totally understand your feelings on this issue. I was waking up so much at night that I started having hallucinations and I felt like pulling my hair out from sleep deprivation. I had bags under my eyes and looked like a drug addict. My mom and mother-in-law finally convinced me to try Ferber to get healthy again. I felt like my baby could adjust well after 12 months.

QOTR · December 2014

Thanks ladies. With encouragement from our pedi and a plan from a sleep consultant, we're moving forward with sleep training. I'm still very emotional and scared about it. But I also know that we can't continue like we are. I think he's in a state of chronic overtiredness. I can spend hours trying to get him to nap and he'll either not go down or just take a short one. He'll then get so tired that he cries inconsolably until he finally exhausts himself. During this time he struggles and fights in our arms as we try to comfort him or cries if we try to lay him down. Our nanny resigned last week because of these challenges. So to add to the existing stress of worrying about his well-being and worrying about how much work I miss trying to help him, we're scrambling to find a new nanny that can start 4 days before Christmas.

As much as I dread and feel guilt ridden over trying a CIO solution, I've come to believe that letting him cry a few nights with hopes of helping his future sleep has got to be kinder to him than continuing to let him have these meltdowns almost daily. It doesn't make it any easier though.

Thanks again for the input and for being a sounding board.

Guennie · December 2014

Oh man, I'm so sorry your nanny is leaving you this way. I know how hard it is to find someone. Big big hugs...as if you didn't already have enough to deal with!! Arghh!!!

Geeps2 · December 2014

Awww man!!!! Nothing like kicking you when you are down! Good luck with CIO. Its great that you had a sleep consultant come in. I hope it works for you. Someone I work with used one because her son was having some of the same issues and it did work like a charm. It was hard having to do it but in the end he is now STTN. Poor little guy needs some sleep, as so does his tired Mommy. Good Luck finding a new nanny. That is kind of a sucky thing to do right before the holidays.

QOTR · December 2014

The good news is that we found a new nanny that we really like AND she can start on Monday. What a relief!

Also, I don't want to jinx it, but our first night is going well so far. He fell asleep before we did our first check-in.

MommyAtty · December 2014

@QOTR‌ - how did it go???
.
I had a convo with one of my employees yesterday. His wife is a SAHM, and yesterday when his alarm went off, she just started bawling. They have 2 terrible sleepers (4 and almost 1) and she's losing her mind. Talking it over, I think she's waking the baby up. Every time the baby makes a noise, she runs to her room and grabs her. I recommended that she just sit there and watch the clock for 2 minutes to make sure the baby isn't "talking" in her sleep. I had to learn to do that because my kids are great sleepers but incredibly noisy. I'm hoping it works. But goodness, I feel for her. And you.

shelley1002 · December 2014

So glad you found a nanny so quickly!

Glad you have a plan. CIO sucks but it works... for most kids. I tried to take as much emotion out of it as I could. Just focused on the fact that they were not hurt, just upset, pissed, and probably confused. But it was for a few (3 or 4) nights, the results justified the means, and they would not remember it. Good luck and I hope this plan works for you and LO and you can all start sleeping soon.

QOTR · December 2014

We've got one day under our belt, and it's going well so far. It's hard and I hate it, but he had logged more sleep by 3:00 this afternoon than he was getting some days in a 24 hour period, so I'm very encouraged. He was happy and playful this afternoon after that good 2nd nap too.

@mommyatty, I feel for your friend! I've shed so many tears just in dread/anticipation of this. Even though we've still got a lot of work to do, I already feel so much relief.

Geeps2 · December 2014

YEAH!!!! On all fronts

Enjoy the rest that is so well deserved.

shelley1002 · December 2014

Glad it seems to be working after such a short period. Keep it up and hang in there.

psychgalbride · December 2014

one word: Zippadeezip. This thing changed our lives. Another PO35 mom recommended it to me and I cannot believe the change. Basically it is a sleep sack with enclosed hands. Worth every penny. My son really struggled with bed time. Literally from day one, this thing worked like magic. Bonus: it is great for babies with who tend to scratch themselves at night (another issue we had), those who need to graduate from the swaddle (mine never liked to be swaddled past week 2/3 but loves his zippy), and is great for keeping baby warm in the car seat. I have both the fleece one and the regular cotton one.

Guennie · December 2014

psychgalbride said:
one word: Zippadeezip. This thing changed our lives. Another PO35 mom recommended it to me and I cannot believe the change. Basically it is a sleep sack with enclosed hands. Worth every penny. My son really struggled with bed time. Literally from day one, this thing worked like magic. Bonus: it is great for babies with who tend to scratch themselves at night (another issue we had), those who need to graduate from the swaddle (mine never liked to be swaddled past week 2/3 but loves his zippy), and is great for keeping baby warm in the car seat. I have both the fleece one and the regular cotton one.

Along these lines...I never asked if you tried just a regular sleep sack. When my daughter got old enough to squirm out of a swaddle I started just zipping her up in a sleep sack. She finds it very cozy. If you haven't tried it you might give it a whirl, it may help him sleep longer, especially this time of year.

QOTR · December 2014

Yes! We love our sleep sack. Not only do I love that they keep him cozy, I think it helps him recognize that the going to bed routine has begun.

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