Do you feel like this is a safe place?

buggirl72 · December 2014

Do you feel like this board is a safe place? If you select no, please explain.

PinkCamino · December 2014

wickedsugar said:

For 99.99% yes There have been the odd few times where it has not. And a ? For the people who say no, why ? Just honest curiosity.

Actually I'm the one who said no.

I don't have the time to elaborate right now but in a nut shell I find the culture has changed and if a few ladies who really make an effort to keep it safe would stop doing that ttcal would become a place where LC were discussed constantly, religion would be used as an "explanation" and false hope would be okay.

ellebelle2384 · December 2014

PinkCamino said:

wickedsugar said:

For 99.99% yes There have been the odd few times where it has not. And a ? For the people who say no, why ? Just honest curiosity.

Actually I'm the one who said no.

I don't have the time to elaborate right now but in a nut shell I find the culture has changed and if a few ladies who really make an effort to keep it safe would stop doing that ttcal would become a place where LC were discussed constantly, religion would be used as an "explanation" and false hope would be okay.

I do agree that compared to when I was on this board in 2011 the board has somewhat "mellowed" but I don't think it's because of those reasons. Sure, sometimes those things pop up but I think that they are just more noticeable to us and stick in our minds more than they actually probably occur (called social salience in psychology). I think overall the board is a very welcoming place and insensitivity is dealt with in a mostly tactful way. I also agree that there are a few ladies who really step up and make this place safe so thank you to those who do! Your efforts are definitely appreciated.

buggirl72 · December 2014

Thank you @PinkCamino‌ for replying and I hope you elaborate when you have more time.

When I posted this I did so because I wanted to start an open dialogue on this topic. There are many different reasons for why someone on this board may not feel it is a safe place.

I know we have newbies afraid to post for various reasons and I know we have "oldies" who no longer post here because they no longer feel safe for various reasons. If you answered "no", please take the time to tell us why.

Also, please remember to be respectful of the feelings of those who are sharing - essentially telling someone they are wrong and that it really is a safe place accomplishes nothing but making the person who shared feel even more "unsafe". You don't have to agree with what the person is saying but please don't invalidate their feelings either.

Menrandes · December 2014

I would say most of the time, yes. There are those moments when people come into the board who should not be here and say the wrong thing. Those days are not safe and they always end in a difficult day. Or the days when old threads are bumped up. Seeing tickers when it is not expected makes things difficult too. I think the thing for me that makes this less of a safe place is when people come into this community without lurking or reading the stickies at the top first.

ellebelle2384 · December 2014

buggirl72 said:

Also, please remember to be respectful of the feelings of those who are sharing - essentially telling someone they are wrong and that it really is a safe place accomplishes nothing but making the person who shared feel even more "unsafe". You don't have to agree with what the person is saying but please don't invalidate their feelings either.

Sorry if my comment came off as invalidating. It was not meant that way.

PinkCamino · December 2014

Okay so here goes nothing..

I think my feelings that TTCAL isn't safe stems from the fact that I've been here so long. When I got here in 2012 this board was fierce. The culture was very protective and many of the issues that are left to slide today would have resulted in a harsh flaming 2 years ago. Having said that, I recognize that board culture changes and as a result I'm not seeking to restore it to what it previously was. Culture is forever changing and I'm 100% okay with that.

What I'm not okay with is this notion that because I've been here for so long that I'm somehow strong enough to provide unlimited support to the rest of the community. The idea that I'm so far out from my losses, such a vet if you will that I'm not as sensitive as the others. This may be a complete construction but that is the perception I get. As a result of this perception I often feel like there isn't a place for me to express where I'm at in my journey. I often find myself needing extra support and simply not asking for it because I feel like I'm so far into my journey that I shouldn't need it anymore and that it's just not okay to ask for it.

I also often feel like taming the inappropriate comments is left up to me and a few other long-time members of this community. I don't want to be the one calling people out for insensitive comments all the time but then I reflect on what would happen if those comments or gestures are not broached and I do it because it's for the greater good of the community. Honestly, I'm really over being "the mean one" all the time because anyone who knows me off board knows that I'm not mean in the slightest (at least I hope so

)

Finally, the current oldies versus inbetweenies or "new vets" power struggle is really getting annoying. I get that those of us who've been here a long time might exude a certain amount of influence over the board but lately there have been incidents that have really made me feel like I don't belong here anymore. I'm really not comfortable with manipulation and shady behavior when it comes to labeling oneself as "alpha". Trust me when I say I don't want to be here anymore. Being here for 2 years is exhausting and I want nothing more than to move on and abdicate my "thrown" (and yes I know there are certain ladies here who think of me that way). I'm not here by choice, I'm here because this has been my journey so far - I want nothing more than to leave but I have zero control over this. As a result, newer members who think it's amusing to disrupt things and fight the greater fight for power over TTCAL really make me question if this is the right place for me anymore. I honestly don't need to be worrying about calculated manipulative attacks and plans when I'm simply trying to move the fuck on like everyone else.

So there it is.

TowerClimbersWife · December 2014

From a Newbie perspective... I feel like this is a safe place to work through the grief and figure out how to incorporate my new self into my old life... if that makes sense.

I also feel like there is a lot of pressure as a Newbie not to say the wrong thing, and to prove myself as a "worthy" member of the community. I think this is a natural thing because anyone entering into a new culture is subjected to showing their worth and their sincerity. However, that does feel heavy at times and I constantly question my standing. Those aspects don't make me feel safe - but more anxious about doing it right.

I hope that makes sense. Not a dig, just an observation as a new person coming in. I enjoy the culture and I soooooo enjoy the lack of drive-bys and idiot posts. There are WAY less stupid people here than on other boards. Plus you ladies rock... 100%. I'm so glad this life transition has landed me with all of you.

welly01 · December 2014

@PinkCamino, I'm so sorry that you are feeling like you don't belong here. As a newbie, I know I felt your presence a lot when I first came to this board. Your absence has been noticed and missed.

But I can absolutely see how when you're "in charge", you spend your time taking care of everyone else and don't get a lot of care for yourself. ((hugs))

Nikolie93 · December 2014

I would like to chime in as a newbie that has recently come to this board. Here goes..

When I first got here I was intimidated, I still am a bit. I am with @jj32 when she stated that she was scared to say the wrong thing in fear of pissing someone off or getting flamed for saying the wrong thing. It's very hard as a newbie coming into a board with ladies that have been through the shittiest shit together and have known each other for quite some time. I didn't know how people would react to me just jumping in. At times I felt like I was intruding on a place where people have been for a while and shared such a special bond.

I don't really speak up if someone says something that I feel is out of line because I honestly don't feel it's my place as someone new in this community. I feared that I would be stepping on people's toes that have been here longer and like jj32 said, people would be like "who's this new person". I understand that may not be the case, but that is how I feel.

I try to reach out to others via PM to see how they are doing if I think they are having a rough day but sometimes it's hard for me not to think that I am overstepping my boundaries as someone "new".

As a newbie coming in I lurked and I tried to get to know how the board worked but there are many things I still don't know.

For instance how you feel, @PinkCamino. You come across as a leader, someone with strength, someone with tons of knowledge. I know that to gain that knowledge you also had to go through a lot of shit to get there and for that I am sorry. There have been times I wanted to reach out to you and ask how you were doing but I thought that you would get those messages all the time and I didn't know if it would help or if it would make you dwell on things. I would have never known you felt the way you do until just now and I am so very sorry you do. You seem like such a wonderful person and it's a damn shame that you feel you can't ask for support here.

Everyone is different, every personality is different. The only way to truly know is to get to know someone and as a newbie on this board, that is hard to do sometimes.

On a side note, at the end of the day I do feel as this is a safe place for me.

Nikolie93 · December 2014

Well it seems it's a good thing this topic came up because I honestly didn't know that the people that have been here long felt this way. I have been part of many forum boards and from my experience it would be looked at as stepping on the "oldies" toes. A newbie coming in has no way of knowing that's not the case.

I have no issue telling people when something isn't appropriate, I have done so a couple of times on the Miscarriage/Loss board but that is not as active as the TTCAL board so I felt more comfortable doing so.

Nikolie93 · December 2014

@mlal78 I see that now, I just wasn't aware before this thread

I mentioned different personalities. I happen to have one that always fears of hurting someone's feelings, and I always question myself if I am saying the right thing or not. So with my experience on other forums, I decided to just back away from it.

rmpar29 · December 2014

@PinkCamino - It makes me so incredibly sad to hear that you don't feel like you can ask for support. You give so much to this board (as well as @buggirl72 , @wickedsugar , @mlal78 and so many others) that you deserve so much better than that! I hope that you can let us know when you need help so we can support you.

I guess I'm considered an "oldie" at this point since I've been here since Summer 2013 (with some time spent on PGAL), but I still feel like I can't speak up when someone does something wrong. Like I don't hold enough clout to do that. I'm sorry that I've left it up to others to keep this place safe. I cannot express my gratitude enough for the effort and time you ladies give to this community. I have seen some newbies imply that you don't belong here and it outrages me that anyone would say that to you. No matter where you are on your journey or even if your journey is over, your experience and wisdom are essential to this community.

I, too, have seen a shift in the board, it's not as fierce when someone steps over the line as when I joined. Having said that, I still feel 99% safe here. There are the occasional issues, but I don't think you can even do away with them completely.

megrae12 · December 2014

I said that this board is a safe place and for the most part it is. However, there are times when I do not feel like I belong here b/c I am at a different place in my journey. That is neither a good or bad thing, it just is. I have watched the board change in just the last year+ I have been here. It has become lax about a lot of things. I do not read intros anymore b/c I can't handle them. It's not the stories or anything like that, it's the sheer lack of disrespect from them. Please understand, it's not all intros, but the ones that are leave a bad taste in my mouth.

I can be very blunt and brutally honest. I don't show that a lot on the board b/c it comes off as bitchy. I personally, do not care if others see me that way, but I don't want to be known as that way either. I will say that I hate that people do not feel that they can defend the board's culture. You are here too. Protect what you claim you love, no one will flame for that. Now, obviously, if you go off and spout ridiculous nonsense, you will be told, but protecting the board is not a flame worthy offense. KWIM?

I honestly do not know if this is making much sense as I am at work and my attention is divided, but I do agree with @PinkCamino that sometimes it is hard to ask for support b/c of differences in our journeys. It does suck to sometimes feel alone and run a check in and dole out the support. It's exhausting (but rewarding) and it takes a lot out of the leaders. All in all, the culture is only as strong as its people. It's just a matter of realizing how strong we want to be.

alm288 · December 2014

This is interesting. I don't really know where I fall. I've been here over a year now, but am not super active. I feel like this is a safe place for me, but find it harder and harder to watch people leave. I really am happy for them and hope they never end up here again, but I'm jealous. It makes me sad and realize how long I've been here. This is something I am dealing with in life . . . I never thought I'd be here this long. I'm a control freak and having a hard time dealing with the lack of control I have over my situation.

I also avoid any threads with drama 99% of the time. I can't stand drama and surround myself in real life with friends who are not dramatic. It just doesn't mix with my personality. Also I guess I feel sometimes like it's not my place to correct others. I guess that's likely my drama avoidance. Since I've been around for a while, I will try to be more supportive.

HeyMrsPotter · December 2014

HoldingOutHope said:

I also voted "yes," and while it's definitely not 100% safe, I feel that it's *mostly* safe.

I agree that a lot of the pot stirring comes from drive-bys and/or happens {probably unintentionally} in intros. I fully admit I have a hard time hearing about LC, and whenever I see that happen I make sure to say something. But then again, I don't read a whole lot of intros because to me, that's where I stop feeling safe. KWIM?

Also, as an "oldie," I admit that it's really tough to see people come and go. Of course I am happy for ladies who graduate and I definitely don't want to see anyone have to return. But it's tough. It just hit me one day like a ton of bricks. I'm not saying that doesn't make this a safe place. But it definitely plays into the reasoning behind my need to step back lately.

This. What feels "safe" in some ways depends on where you're at and can change over time.

First, I'll say that following our board etiquette is what keeps us all safe. But when that happens, and most of the time it does, there are still times when being here is painful. To me, that doesn't mean this place isn't safe. It's just another iteration of the shit-sandwich we call loss.

When I was a newb, my "safe" participation was mostly to provide support by responding to intros by just offering a welcome and a hug. Participating in this way ensured I wasn't risking offering up ill-informed advice or opinions in areas where I wasn't knowledgeable. It also prevented me from being flamed for irresponsible posting. Later, as I unfortunately gained more experience with IF, ART, etc., I felt more able to respond to those more complicated posts and questions.

Now, 18 months post-loss, what's safe for me is completely different. I don't open intros. It's just too hard to deal with when some newbies won't read the blog to learn -- or do read the blog but maybe still don't comprehend -- how hard it is for us to hear about their "beautiful LC" or other insensitive statements. And then there's also the fact that more often than not the newbie will probably be moving on to PGAL soon enough. So, if you're a new lady here, please know that my heart is with you and I wish you the best, and please forgive my reticence.

I'm also refraining from leading or participating in any check-ins right now because I just don't need it pointed out to me how frequently I am being left behind. That doesn't feel safe either. But again, it's my personal situation, not something the board as a whole can do anything about, and for the most part, not the result of anything anyone else here is doing wrong (blatant violations of our blog guidelines aside).

In this case, all I can do is focus my participation on the areas where I personally do feel safest. So, my poll response was, "Yes." I think it's as safe as any place can be.

edited to fix typos and delete redundant stuff

Nikolie93 · December 2014

EurydiceNymph said:

Do I feel like the board is safe? Yes.

Do I feel like it is equally welcoming and supportive any longer? No. For the reasons people have already mentioned, so I won't go into it again.

I am sorry that people, myself included at times, don't always feel that they can ask for support. I think that the only way that will change is to go ahead and ask for that support and let us show you that we DO support and love you and are here for you.

I have noticed more of a divide lately: the newbies rally around each other while those who have been here longer rally around each other. I also have been noticing more pain olympic-y things, but I think I am being over sensitive to that.

This. This happens all around me IRL. It happens at work, it happens with my circle of friends, and it happens in my car club. I have no idea how to fix that so if anyone has any suggestions, feel free.

I am glad that certain things are being said here because I really had no idea some of it was going on. If I feel I am contributing to some of those negative things I will definitely work on making a change.

renegadewhit · December 2014

jj32 said:

PinkCamino said:

Snip

I also often feel like taming the inappropriate comments is left up to me and a few other long-time members of this community. I don't want to be the one calling people out for insensitive comments all the time but then I reflect on what would happen if those comments or gestures are not broached and I do it because it's for the greater good of the community. Honestly, I'm really over being "the mean one" all the time because anyone who knows me off board knows that I'm not mean in the slightest (at least I hope so )

@pinkcamino I am only going to speak for myself on this topic because I don't know other people's reasoning for not speaking up regarding inappropriate comments.

You are right, for the most part you or another reg are the ones to say something to someone that post inappropriately. I personally have not before for a few different reasons. The biggest being that I think I have been here 5 or 6 months now and I am finally starting to become comfortable to speak up and say something. When I was newer I honestly was scared of getting flamed or pissing people off if I spoke up about something. It may be silly I guess to be worried about getting flamed on a board, but I did worry. I didn't want people to think "who is this new person" coming in here acting like she knows this board. So I kept quiet, I wanted people to get to know me first and my personality. Maybe I went about it wrong? Another reason is sometimes I am late to the post and someone else has already caught it so I end up not saying anything.

I hope this makes sense, sometimes it is hard to write out feelings.

I think for the most part, this is a safe place, but I'm just starting to feel that way outside of my check in. In my first few weeks there was a conversation that took a really negative turn, and I was really offended by some of the things that were said. I spoke up, and the response I got was "who the fuck are you". People who break the rules should definitely be told, but sometimes it feels like instead of trying to help teach the person what they did wrong so they can become a productive member of the group, they're just attacked. I'm okay with brutally honest and blunt, but I'm not so comfortable with F-bombs being thrown at people and hostility.

That being said, I think all of the anxiety I've had about being "flamed" has prevented me from providing support for some of the "vets", because I was honestly intimidated. I didn't want another "who the fuck are you", so I just avoided posting support for certain people. That's my bad, and I don't want anyone to feel like they don't deserve support, especially because of my actions. I'm truly sorry if I hurt anyone or contributed to anyone feeling like they're not welcome.

MrsOscarFelix · December 2014

Overall I agree with the other newbies that have posted thus far. I feel that there is a certain hesitation to comment when you are new as to avoid any conflict. However, I do think this thread has really helped and shown us newer ladies that there is nothing to be afraid of. I know that I try and comment and give support as much as I can but try to abstain from correcting any one or even giving that much advice on things TTC related as I feel I don't have as much knowledge as some people here.

AFM I don't think I think of the "oldies/vets" as being bitchy, mean, or in charge but I do think of them as knowledgeable - if that makes sense? I think @whitneyandconcep hit it on the head when she said it's more of an "intimidation" than anything else. I definitely see this place as safe and it has really been my ( and I think a lot of people's) saving grace after a loss. At the end of the day I feel like that I can come here for support and that I can contribute support to a lot of other people - regardless of how long some one has been on the board. I am sorry that some of the vets feel that they can't come here and get support anymore and I for one will definitely make sure I am giving more support and contributing more.

HeyMrsPotter · December 2014

I'm glad this discussion has helped more ladies feel empowered to keep TTCAL safe by speaking up when they see things happening that are not in keeping with our community's guidelines.

renegadewhit · December 2014

@ktlovess‌ and @PetraStonegirl‌ I'm learning and getting more comfortable stepping out into the boards. This thread was helpful to see that I'm not the only person to feel intimidated, but it's okay to move past that. Also helpful to see what I can do better in the future to provide support for everyone.

I'm totally cool with cursing, but even if it's ok under the tou, I don't think I'll ever be completely comfortable with someone cursing at me.

catvaughn5002 · December 2014

As a newbie, I do feel generally "safe" in this community. I receive a lot of support from ladies that have been or are currently going through the same unfortunate situation of MC with me. At the same time, I try my best to be active in encouraging and lifting up others. I do agree with some of the ladies that it can be a little scary as a "newbie" to jump right in and say exactly what I'm feeling about certain scenarios. I'm not always sure how my comments/thoughts would be taken or don't want to be looked down on for asking "stupid" questions. The newbie check in is a great place for support though without having to feel intimidated. Overall, I LOVE that I have found this online community and look up to the "oldies" that have been here through the years finding their support and guidance very helpful. After reading this post, I will make an effort to remember no matter how long one has been here support is still needed daily. ((hugs)) to all you ladies! Glad I found you :x

edit: grammar

Elliecat17 · December 2014

Sorry I am once again late to the party. :P Ladies, especially @ktlovess, @PinkCamino, @PetraStonegirl, @Mlal78, and all the others I will step up more! You were all there for me, and I do really want to be thee for you. As @jj32 so eloquently stated: sometimes I don't chime in because I am so late getting onto a thread where someone justly deserves to be taken care of. Also ladies don't feel afraid to ask for support! I am so thankful for your knowledge, but I don't mean to take advantage of it! **hugs** to all and I am so glad that I found my way here!!!

mflowers929 · December 2014

I answered yes, but honestly, if you had asked me 2 or 3 months ago, I probably would have answered no.

I'm glad I stuck around to be able to have this be my safe place, but for me when I was new, a lot of the "correcting" seemed more like attacking. I remember reading one particular thread and having to literally walk away from my computer after "corrections" took a very high handed approach. I probably bitched about some of you oldies to more people than were necessary - even though you didn't know about it, I apologize.

I'm not going to claim to be completely comfortable with the approach some people take to make this place safe, but I am starting to recognize the necessity more and more.

It takes me a lot more time than some to get comfortable - in a place, in a job, in a friendship. But you can believe me when I say that when I get comfortable, I am fiercely protective of what makes that thing special to me, so you can guarantee that for however long I'm here, if I feel that something needs to be said, it will be said.

O2girl · December 2014

I voted YES! First, I will say this....
I feel the love and support from so many women here and it makes me all emotional.

Next, let me say this...
It can feel intimidating as a newbie, but then again if anyone of us walked into a new group of women most likely we would feel intimidated also. I'm a very quiet, reserved individual (except when drunk) IRL and I don't think it is much different here, so most likely nobody will get some long winded, prophetic reply..... It's just not my style.

I can say one thing.... I hate labels. I don't like them because labels tend to segregate people and that makes people group up and that can appear very clique'ish, and I don't do cliques. I actually really don't know where I stand and I don't really care, because if you are cool to me, then I like you. If you are a dick, then I don't like you. I'm kinda easy that way. Also, I have very little advice to give because even though I have some experience at the whole IF process, I am not an authority by any stretch of the imagination (I can only offer up my experience). When it comes to natural conception.... CM and temping is a new Greek language to me and so........ Usually all I give is hugs. I like to hug it out. That is my way of hopefully showing that I care.

I'm just happy this place exists and I don't see the people here as adhering to some sort of hierarchy. I do see feathers get ruffled and I do see people saying things that I want to shake them for. I don't get involved because it isn't in my nature. I'm a bit of a pacifist and chiding remarks tend to put me on edge so when I see them I close the post because I don't want to watch the battle. I'm not in anyway suggesting that the chiding remarks aren't warranted; the responses usually are warranted, I'm just a highly sensitive person and the remarks tend to make me sad and the responses make me sad sometimes too.

Xoxoxo to everyone in this thread because everyone needs the love in some way, shape or form.

negritosmami · December 2014

Late but I just wanna add I definitely feel safe here..especially in comparison with some of the other boards. Its scary when you're new as has been said so many times. But seriously, if you spend even an HOUR lurking before you comment you really can get a good idea of what to say and not say. I know alot of things I was inclined to say, had I NOT lurked..I would've gotten flamed! Even though in real life it may be ok to say.and thats fine. Time and place for everything. I think this board is definitely what u make it. Takes a little effort but for the support and wisdom you get here...and for FREE..pssh..so worth it!!yal have been my counselors, girlfriends, nurse hot line and comedic relief all in one! So awesome!

meredithcarole · December 2014

I voted yes and read through the comments. I thought about not throwing in my 2 cents because it is late and most points have been made, but then I thought that actually, that is my thought and my point.

Some days I am able to be on The Bump in the middle of the day. Other times I come in in the evening to see that all hell has broken loose over some troll or some statement. Often I can tell simply by looking at the number of comments on an intro whether or not that person has said something incredibly thoughtless or flat out idiotic. Sometimes I read a bit to find out what the drama is, sometimes it is so incredibly involved that I am thankful I wasn't present for the issue.

I know that about 60% of intros will never participate beyond their intro (that is a personal opinion and observation, not a scientific study, but it seems pretty accurate). Certain intros prompt a little more than my standard "so sorry, welcome" and even when there is something a bit more heart wrenching for me and I give a bit more there is a good chance that they will not participate beyond the need to put their story out there. So perhaps the reason that I don't tend to get too up in arms about anything is that I don't raise my expectations above that level.

I am not quick to jump down someone's throat for being a jerk, because to me there is no point. Once they have gotten a "hey, you're out of line and here's why" from someone and they continue to act like an ass, then why feed the troll? They are acting out for attention. Why give them what they are after? Certainly I think if they personally attack a member of our community they need to be set straight, but after a point I think it goes beyond what is necessary and what is useful and continuing on can make the situation worse.

I'm not a newbie. I am, I suppose, a "new oldie." I do not think it falls to @pinkcamino or @mlal78 or @wickedsugar or any other specific person to censure a person who is out of line in a thread. Often, however, they are on it way before I get there so again, why beat a dead horse? As for the newbies, they are still learning the culture and I can appreciate why it can be intimidating. There are so many strong women on this board. We are not strong all the time, but those who participate regularly do have very strong personalities. If you are trying to find your place then you may step back a bit to see where exactly you fit in. That's fine, you'll find your niche.

Everyone who is a member of this community deserves to be supported. Everyone handles things in their own way, in their own time and as we have noted on many occasions, grief is not linear. I can be fine today, fine tomorrow, and a crying heap next week. No one here is totally aware of my life, so sometimes I have to say "hey, look at me." If I need support then I deserve it because I give it. The same goes for anyone who follows that creed - give support and get support. If I need to back off intros for a while that's okay, because someone else will step in and handle it. When I regain my ability to offer that "welcome" even though I may get a slap in the face for it I take the place of someone else who needed to step away for a bit. That's the point of a community: shared burden and shared resources. And that's what we do here every day. We provide a relatively safe haven from the outside world. Nothing is infallible, but we do our best and I think we do a damn good job of it most of the time.

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