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June 2015 Moms
when should you start feeling the baby move
This discussion has been closed.
Re: when should you start feeling the baby move
MC at 8 weeks {EDD 9.2.20}
Rainbow Girl! {2.28.16}
Baby boy, lost at 16 weeks {EDD 6.10.15}
Just because quickening is unlikely at 12-13 weeks does not mean it is impossible. Until you can provide scientific evidence that it is impossible, you should climb down off your self righteous high horse and stop calling people idiots for asking.
As a FTM (and clearly someone who loves anecdotal evidence) you don't know shit anyway.
Ugh, the immaturity from the herd here, the ones who seem to know everything about fetal movements and for that matter when anyone can and will possibly "show" (again, without citing a single peer reviewed source), is obnoxious.
I'm betting most of you have been to college. Act like it. If you want to call someone an idiot and proclaim their question to be stupid and impossible, I'll say again: Bring it. Be the grown up educated woman you claim to be, and BRING THE SCIENCE.
I'll wait.... Let's have an educated debate. Or can't you handle that?
I realize that bringing science to a bitch fight is probably futile. But maybe, just maybe one of you will see the hypocrisy of your posts and will welcome and open and educated discussion on the topic of quickening. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
Miscarriages and a full term due day still born. So I am well aware of how very important loss support is. Somewhere between that and posts like this there is a very sad bunch of groupies who think it's fun to ridicule others.
There are about 25 other threads, this week, many them in which Posters like you (probably even you) like to belittle or make fun of people for asking stupid questions, and then in the next sentence say something that is medically incorrect. I can let this thread die and continue the discussion in any.one.of.those.threads.
Which would you prefer? Or are you going to reply with snark, and deflect again? WHERE IS THE ANSWER ON SCIENCE? If you're gonna be a meanie, at least be right.
This.is.hilarious. Heh.
Someone points out that those berating have no evidence for their bullying, and requests an adult discussion. Yeah.... That's "crazy". (Insert sarcasm font)
I've clearly ruined your mean girl party by pointing out that you are wrong. :-(
Seriously, let's have the debate. If the OP is soooo wrong, how do you know her to be wrong? I'm not a WK, I just want to learn more. The more research I read, the more I learn. So, bring it.
Now... I'll predict there will be at least 3 more posts like yours before I get a real adult answer... in 3....2....1....
***mobile quote fail***
That's #1! Who's next?
Fetal movement occurs when the fetus contacts the uterine wall. (Murray, Antepartal and Intrapartal Fetal Monitoring). This occurs roughly around 16 weeks in multiparity mothers. "Before this time, fetal movements are too fine to be noticed." (Blackburn, Maternal, Fetal, and Neonatal Physiology: A Clinical Perspective.) (Cunningham, Leader, and Sorokin publications put this as early as 14 weeks for multiparity moms.)
There are numerous (I quit after I found 5) studies about the high false positive rate of maternal perception of fetal movement versus what was seen on ultrasound, and that's later in pregnancy. I know you're anti-common sense, but do you think that the high false positive rate is going to be higher or lower with a smaller fetus, larger uterus, and less gross movement? (since many of these perception studies found that mothers couldn't feel an individual limb, but could when the entire torso or multiple limbs moved). (Gupta, Comprehensive Textbook of Obstetrics and Gynecology; Kiselevsky et al, Maternal and Ultrasound Measurement of Elicited Fetal Movement; Schmidt, Maternal Perception of Fetal Movement and Realtime Ultrasound Findings, Lecanuet, Fetal Development a Psychobiological Perspective.)
I don't see the big deal whether science or not, if they can feel the baby or not. My main concern is that people are asking the SAME question over and over again! Use the search button to see if it's been asked before you ask it! I feel so sorry for those who have had loses that are now going to be pushed to page God knows what because this stupid thing is turning into a debate!
Fetal movement occurs when the fetus contacts the uterine wall. (Murray, Antepartal and Intrapartal Fetal Monitoring). This occurs roughly around 16 weeks in multiparity mothers. "Before this time, fetal movements are too fine to be noticed." (Blackburn, Maternal, Fetal, and Neonatal Physiology: A Clinical Perspective.) (Cunningham, Leader, and Sorokin publications put this as early as 14 weeks for multiparity moms.)
There are numerous (I quit after I found 5) studies about the high false positive rate of maternal perception of fetal movement versus what was seen on ultrasound, and that's later in pregnancy. I know you're anti-common sense, but do you think that the high false positive rate is going to be higher or lower with a smaller fetus, larger uterus, and less gross movement? (since many of these perception studies found that mothers couldn't feel an individual limb, but could when the entire torso or multiple limbs moved). (Gupta, Comprehensive Textbook of Obstetrics and Gynecology; Kiselevsky et al, Maternal and Ultrasound Measurement of Elicited Fetal Movement; Schmidt, Maternal Perception of Fetal Movement and Realtime Ultrasound Findings, Lecanuet, Fetal Development a Psychobiological Perspective.)
END QUOTE
Now this is an excellent answer. (I hearby eat my words regarding my prediction of 3 irrelevant posts) Well done. Thanks for the citations, I'll head to read them.
To clarify though, I never made the claim that quickening routinely happens early, or that there aren't false positives. I pointed out that it is possible, and that any claims that it is IMPOSSIBLE are not based in fact. Answer the OP by saying "it's very unlikely". But to say "It's impossible" is in fact, incorrect. I'll read what you cited, but I would guess they say "unlikely" rather than "impossible". The most recent article in AJOG noted that maternal age, body size, uterine position, and number of pregnancies, etc are major factors in how early quickening is detected. Have you found evidence to the contrary?
It's the idea that anyone can say with certainty (hence the word impossible) what others are experiencing that bothers me. And here, it's done in such a belittling way. Pregnancy isn't 40 weeks exactly. Ovulation is often pinpointed by day, but a day is 24 hours and conception can happen up to 48 hours after ovulation. Babies are various sizes (full term, healthy babies can vary by 5+ pounds). Just because an u/s says someone is 10w4d doesn't mean they are EXACTLY that far along. There is a good bit of variability in fetal size. This there will be variability of experience.
My point is that we are all different. Our babies are different. Our bodies are different. We have different experiences. Tell someone "what you are experiencing is unlikely", fine. But to say "you are an idiot, that is IMPOSSIBLE" is rude, childish, and factually incorrect. You can't possibly know for sure. The threads about showing are another example of this same thing here. Claiming that someone with a bump at 13w6d is a liar, but at 14w1d because "showing before 14w is impossible... Look at this diagram" is stupid and pointless. And downright just obnoxious (especially when the diagram itself is 60 years old).
I honestly thank you for your cordial and thoughtful reply. Thank you. I appreciate the reasoned debate, and I welcome your thoughts on my comments.
Off to download your articles linked...
Difference in feeling quickening is related to age, body size, number of previous pregnancies, uterine position & thickness and various other factors. Not ones "awareness of self".
Honestly, your comment is just as rude and patronizing as the women you are arguing with.
MC at 8 weeks {EDD 9.2.20}
Rainbow Girl! {2.28.16}
Baby boy, lost at 16 weeks {EDD 6.10.15}
Not name calling, those aren't means names, they are descriptions. Your opinion may vary. Obviously.
There are some very smart women here. I find the posts interesting. I've been a member of this board since 4w, so I'm not new. I just don't often post on every.single.theead. I have noticed trends though.
Snark is hilarious. Hypocritical snark is even funnier. And yes, I will make fun of it. Oh noez! Is that "mean girl" of me?
I do want you to know that although I don't complain much (because everyone is living their own problems), I do get a lot of support and reassurance from reading here. Threads like this are a welcome distraction for me. I haven't been to work in weeks and it's depressing. So please know that I may be snarky and you may find me obnoxious, but behind it all, I'm very grateful for you all here.
#iloveyouguys
#endsunshineandrainbowfartspost #continueyourmeangirlsnark
Feeling fetal movement prior to 14 weeks for a second time mom, and 16 weeks for a first time mom, is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY. You were screaming science - so whats more likely using science - that the majority of these posts are mistaking gas or phantom sensations for fetal movement several weeks before its possible? Or that we are just lucky enough to have more than a dozen extra rare magical special snowflakes on this board? Because those posts started popping up as early as 8 weeks in to pregnancy, and there have been at least 2 a week since.
Go ahead, reply. You know you wanna!
I'm not sure where you are getting "screaming" out of me (again, what's with all the hyperbole?). I thought it was understood that one "screams" online by typing in all caps all the time. I don't remember doing that here. Ever.
Again, thanks for the reply, I will go read your previous post you are referencing.
Please, please, please reply. Ohhhh please do!!! {sarcasm}
Honestly I don't think you could stop. So who has the problem here?
Also, I thought name calling is against TOS? But you are above these rules? Interesting. Go ahead. Call me a whore again. Since you can help but replying. You know you wanna.....
Also, while the ability to copy and paste gifs from google is quite a useful skill (again sarcasm) at least make them interesting ladies. Come on! I'm stuck at home on a pump here (TMI- which means I can't shit like a normal human either.... Yay Zofran!). Find me some unique humor! There are better memes out there. Challenge accepted? You can do so much better. Give me a good laugh here.