Fluff love washing survey results

Rrrrrachel · November 2014

they surveyed a bunch of people via facebook and used some fancy statistical software. Here ya go

https://www.fluffloveuniversity.com/senior-year/survey-results-and-data/

Also they obviously have a website now and you can see the dirty diaper challenge stuff on there, too.

Aren't you guys glad we have them to tell us how we're doing it wrong?!?

PipSqueak0313 · November 2014

Confirmed with my personal statistics "professor" (aka dh who taught statistics at the university level) that their results are skewed. The survey doesn't accurately sample the cloth diapering population, therefore, the results are not totally valid. If the same survey was completed by a large natural parenting group that refuses to use mainstream detergents, as example, the results would be very different, and still would not accurately reflect the cloth diapering population as a whole.

freezorburn · November 2014

This is paraphrased, but I'm sure you get the idea.

RachelCA29 · November 2014

What I don't get about the washing challenge is they had a few "cloth safe" attempts where they washed it only once or twice. Obviously those stains aren't going to come out after one wash, no matter what detergent used. That's not proving anything about mainstream detergents.

Rrrrrachel · November 2014

@PipSqueak0313‌ I tried to explain that at the time but got shouted down.

freezorburn · November 2014

It's too bad that the gray they selected for their main typeface isn't contrast-y enough for me to want to read their analysis.

PipSqueak0313 · November 2014

freezorburn said:

It's too bad that the gray they selected for their main typeface isn't contrast-y enough for me to want to read their analysis.

DH asked me for the link so he could read through it sometime when he was bored so he can put it in his files so if he ever teaches stats again he can use it as an example. One of the things he teaches/taught his students is that stats can be misused and made to show what the surveyors want them to show - just like political surveys.

Rrrrrachel · November 2014

I'm irritated that they say the right way to do it would have been an expensive controlled experiment. Like here's no middle ground between that and just blasting your link all over facebook. There are ways to do surveys and get good data.

PipSqueak0313 · November 2014

I wonder how long it will be before some PhD student choses this topic for a dissertation.

Rrrrrachel · November 2014

I'm aggravated because I think some of their information is good. But here are people being so pushy about it in every cd group on facebook. You can't avoid it. And some of it is not good. And people act like it's all super well cited and sources documented and it's just not.

freezorburn · November 2014

PipSqueak0313 said:

I wonder how long it will be before some PhD student choses this topic for a dissertation.

You mean, the laundry science part of it? Or the sociology of how misinformation can spread via social media?

freezorburn · November 2014

Rrrrrachel said:

I'm aggravated because I think some of their information is good. But here are people being so pushy about it in every cd group on facebook. You can't avoid it. And some of it is not good. And people act like it's all super well cited and sources documented and it's just not.

What I don't like is the way they seem to be brandishing pitchforks at CD manufacturers and their product care recommendations. As well as at the manufacturers of non-mainstream detergents. It's just uncalled for.

Rrrrrachel · November 2014

Yes. And their attitude about charlies is just weird.

PipSqueak0313 · November 2014

freezorburn said:

PipSqueak0313 said:

I wonder how long it will be before some PhD student choses this topic for a dissertation.

You mean, the laundry science part of it? Or the sociology of how misinformation can spread via social media?

I was thinking of the laundry science/textile care aspect but the sociology of spreading misinformation via social media could be interesting too, especially in light of current events.

freezorburn · November 2014

Rrrrrachel said:
Yes. And their attitude about charlies is just weird.

Yes it's very weird. As if this will prove anything:
https://www.fluffloveuniversity.com/senior-year/participate-survey-time/burns-from-charlies-soap-survey/

Rrrrrachel · November 2014

It will prove some peoples kids got rashes. They think it was from charlies. The end.

PipSqueak0313 · November 2014

mamalamb10 said:

I'm not an expert in statistics but know enough to see all kinds of flaws in their methods. There are so many factors that they didn't even take into consideration! The main two being water type and machine used. Also the method of gaining survey respondents is severely flawed. Only looking at basically 2 fb groups who's members are known for their hate of non-mainstream detergents. Of course their results look like they do! To get acurate results you need a much wider section of respondents.

type of diapers being washes is also important....cotton flats wash well with most anything....thick, multi layer diapers, especially when the inner layers are mf, are much harder. So the results from one family that uses primarily all flats will be different from a family that uses prmarily fitteds, even if they were washing in the same washer/dryer in an apartment complex and using the same detergent.

Rrrrrachel · November 2014

I think it's the issue with the sampling that bothers me the most. They did try to get it out there in a variety of groups but I don't fink that's good enough to overcome the voluntary sample. Plus if people knew it was sponsored by fluff love that could change things because that's a pretty polarizing group.

PipSqueak0313 · November 2014

PipSqueak0313 said:

freezorburn said:

It's too bad that the gray they selected for their main typeface isn't contrast-y enough for me to want to read their analysis.

DH asked me for the link so he could read through it sometime when he was bored so he can put it in his files so if he ever teaches stats again he can use it as an example. One of the things he teaches/taught his students is that stats can be misused and made to show what the surveyors want them to show - just like political surveys.

Dh said he had to stop reading after the first part of it due to laughing too hard.....and he doesn't care HOW the diapers are cleaned only that they are cleaned.

Rrrrrachel · November 2014

He doesn't care that they're PROPERLY CLEANED

freezorburn · November 2014

I'm not a statistician, but I used to work for a company that would commission phone polls. For one thing I would say cast a wider net -- advertise the survey with different forums, blogs, even vendors. I think they would need to include a question that indicates how the respondent found the survey, and then they would have to find a way to adjust for that.

For example, when we did phone polls, I think it would be typical that we would get a larger representation of respondents who were in an older age bracket. Our number crunchers would adjust and re-weight our results based on the known age demographics in the geographic area that we polled. I'm not quite sure how you would adjust for a CD survey. Maybe it would have be to based on cross tabulating market share and the percentage of the overall population that have children at home of a diapering age? I'm not sure how to figure that out, because even then a smaller portion are washing CDs.

But what I really wanted to say was, Oh Look -- they've darkened their font! I must not have been the only person who had trouble reading it. Or, someone from FL is lurking here!

Rrrrrachel · November 2014

You need to select a sample randomly. Something like select random orders from diaper companies and solicit those people to do the survey. You can still end up wih non response bias but it's better than letting people totally self select. Getting good data is a lot of work. I'm not saying this survey was pointless but it's a pilot study at best.

PipSqueak0313 · November 2014

To get a valid result the survey would need to include those who cloth diaper for environmental reasons (less likely to use mainstream detergents), those who handwash diapers only, and those who are not on the internet. There are variables that need to be controlled for: hard/soft water, HE TL/HE FL/non-HE TL/handwash, natural/synthetic fibers, flat/prefold/pocket/fitteds/AIO, and frequency of washing. That's what I can think of off the top of my head, without consulting dh.

RJM050705 · December 2014

Rawr. Spam.

h2opolochix · December 2014

Still spam.

TJ1979 · December 2014

nanabanana06 · December 2014

I will forever say that there is such a thing as detergent build up. It isn't some sort of mythical faerie. It's real, just cuz you don't have build up doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

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