Food for Thought: Article on Paternity Leave in the NYTimes

emp156 · November 2014

Just wanted to share an article I just came across in the NYTimes. "Paternity Leave: The Rewards and the Remaining Stigma."

While there's plenty to be discussed (and lamented!) about maternity leave policies in the US, this article brings up some ideas about paternity leave. While my SO does not work in a place that offers paternity leave (as many do not), I certainly feel fortunate that he's able to take two weeks of his vacation to stay home with us after baby is born.

The article brings up the idea that as more men begin to ask for (and take advantage of) family-friendly policies, the more difficult it may be for employers to treat employees differently on the basis of gender roles. Wish it weren't the case that men demanding family-friendly policies would be one of the better ways to ensure that more women get them too...

Regardless, good read. Enjoy.

racheldiaries · November 2014

Good read. DH gets 10-days of paternity leave that he can use within the first year [military]. However, if he requests it for a certain time they can deny him and make him take it later in that year period. Hopefully his command will allow him to take it right after she's born. Just depends on their schedule I suppose...

2JEL · November 2014

This is an excellent read, thanks for sharing. Until recently, I worked for several large law firms, all of which offered women a few months of paid leave and men at least 8 weeks of paid leave, but it was generally "known" that people who were serious about partner would not take long (more than maybe 2 weeks for men, 4 for women) leaves and, in many occasions, women who did take full leave were not given good assignments or serious responsibility after returning.

I really admire the companies profiled for trying to push cultural norms in favor of taking extended leave. I'd also like to note that most European companies offer 6-10 weeks of vacation/leave to their white collar workers and if we had a system like that it would be much easier for all people to balance work and life obligations, whether caring for newborns, being involved parents, helping aging parents, etc.

jaymee1021 · November 2014

We are very blessed that my husband gets full paid 6 weeks off paternity leave. Very lucky.

haloform · November 2014

Thank you for sharing this article!

RaeChay · November 2014

misskilljoy said:

Parental leave is a mess. Everywhere. Overall, I find that men here (Canada) are met with a funny, "Oh, that's interesting that you're taking time off to be with your baby," sort of attitude. It's still a novelty and still very rare, despite being available to everyone.

The flipside of offering extended maternity/parental leave (in Canada you get up to 52 weeks for mothers or 35-37 weeks for fathers at 55% pay to a max of $500/week) is that it results in a different sort of stigma. I'm sorry to say that in my experience, mothers who take less than the full 52 weeks are heavily stigmatized here and pressured to stay off work (even if it means damage to their career) while the reaction to fathers using their leave time is mixed.

Originally, our plan was to have me be off work for three months, then return to teaching and have my husband take the rest of the year off while doing little bits of work here and there for friends (as there is a small allowance to make money while receiving parental leave benefits). The resistance, disbelief, and pressure I encountered when talking to people about my plans - people I care about, people who are level-headed and intelligent, people who just wanted the best for me - was unbelievable. I was left feeling very uncomfortable and highly uncertain about my plans. Our circumstances changed and now I'll be taking the full year (or more) off. Suddenly all of the questioning has stopped. I'm taking a year! I'm a good mother again!

My sister is a single parent and only took five months off work. She went back to work because it meant a promotion and steady paycheque, which she needed. Since then, she has been left feeling like she has done something wrong by going back to work "so soon."

A colleague took a year off to care for his newborn child a few years ago. The reaction was mixed, in that people were impressed that he was going to stay home with the baby (because holy shit, a dude wants to be involved in his kid's life?!) but immediately wondered why his wife "didn't want to." Was something wrong? Was she okay? Didn't she find it hard to be at work? Wouldn't she rather be at home? The implication of "bad mother" is heavy.

It's completely absurd that there's a stigma associated with parental leave in any way. While I really, really love that my country offers extended parental leave and a wide range of options for families (parents can take it simultaneously, making it six months of both parents home, or mix maternity and paternity leave, or start it four months before the baby arrives...) I hate that overwhelmingly, there is a sense that since we HAVE a year, you're somehow being a bad mother/parent if you don't take it.

This is really interesting. Do moms get a whole year at 100% pay? I find it really funny that "only" taking 5 months off garners criticism. Obviously that is not the case here in the states.

My H is lucky in that he gets 3 shifts off for paternity leave. It doesn't sound like much but because he works 24 on/48 off it can end up being between 1-2 weeks paid leave specifically for a new baby, and can be combined with sick leave/FMLA and PTO if needed. Much sweeter deal than at my job.

talianza · November 2014

My husband gets 2 weeks of paid vacation a year and that's what he'll be using as paternity leave.

mckenneyfam · November 2014

I work for a municipal school district (governed by the city) which is considered a gov't job and we are only offered FMLA. We have our vacation, sick time and special privilege time that can be used while out on FMLA but there is no guarantee of pay while you are out. My DH only gets his vacation time as he works for a small company of about 10 employees and couldn't even take FMLA if he wanted (the act states that your company has to have a minimum of 50 employees)

I would also like to point out that the last company I worked for offered FMLA however, I was no eligible to receive it because I hadn't worked there for at least a year. I was offered short term disability but the Friday before I was scheduled to return to work, they had a meeting with me stating that my position was no longer needed but still had a position for me but was at a salary that was 30% lower. Real nice thing to do to a new family struggling with a newborn. Anyways, that company no longer exists as they went bankrupt and I have a cushy gov't job with way better benefits.

Maternity/paternity leave is brushed aside in the US but sometimes it's not always greener on the other side. We are very thankful for what we do get and will enjoy and treasure every single moment we have with our new addition. Thanks for posting the article.

megbmeg · November 2014

@misskilljoy Love hearing about how it works in Canada. Fascinating. But I'm sorry you got so much pushback about your plans. Everybody has an opinion, right?

My H is planning to use his vacation time for paternity leave (probably 5-6 weeks, yay!), but he could also take 12 weeks FMLA unpaid leave, which I don't think he'll do because I won't be working or getting paid for 8-9 months. Plus, he's been getting a lot of pushback at work about taking time off at all. He was the lead on a major project and they took him off it permanently because he is planning to be out for a good chunk of time in December, and they expect him to be available by phone and some teleworking even when he is out. Gross.

2JEL · November 2014

I already thanked the OP once for sharing, but wanted to update that I shared with DH and he proposed taking an extra week or two off when our LO arrives, which was unexpected and amazing-- so thank you again!

xc1148 · November 2014

On one hand, it's "nice" that men are subject to the same stigma, but really I'm hoping this turns into a general push towards better benefits overall. It's better for society/children to have formal leave policies. Big companies can afford to pay for leave, small companies can get subsidies from the government. It's just shameful for the US to not have a mandated policy in this area.

ColoradoBoat · November 2014

Yes, thanks OP for posting. The correlation with help later on and paternity leave is really interesting. My DH has one week paid time off/year (he works in construction, which generally has yucky leave policies, plus his company is only 4 people). He already used the leave in March when we went to Hawaii (didn't know we were pregnant yet!). That said, his boss is really cool about him taking unpaid leave and flexibility with his schedule in general, plus he loves the job.

So anyway, after reading this article I talked to DH about taking some additional time off (he was only planning to take the first couple days off while I'm in the hospital). My parents will be in town to help with baby, so depending on how everything goes, and the hope that DH will have more leave come Jan. 1, we may see if he can take some time with baby after I go back to work. From these stories, it sounds like it could be really good for DH to spend time alone with baby.

At any rate, a good read. I agree with the author and Facebook that we need to encourage people to take their family leave when it's offered and not have a stigma for it. Considering FMLA was 20 years ago, I think our country is ripe for updating the laws to include paid leave and additional benefits (and having FMLA cover companies that are much smaller, including mine of 18 employees). Don't get me wrong, it won't happen tomorrow, but with more of our generation's mom population working, plus every developed nation having a better system on family leave than ours, it will change. Hopefully I don't have to move to Canada before it does, though!

bowlwoman · November 2014

DH took 4 weeks off with DD1. My FIL wanted to know why he was taking so much time off, because "Can't you take care of the baby?" Smack.

He took a week and a half off with DD2 because they were in the middle of a big project and that's all he could really spare.

With this LO, he just started a new job last week, and his new company is small and doesn't fall under FMLA. That's one of the big factors that led to me choosing 11/26 for my induction date instead of 12/1. Since he'll be off for Thanksgiving anyway, he'll have a good 5-6 days off when the baby comes that he would have had to have taken unpaid if we waited a few more days.

sarahlynne30 · November 2014

Good article thank you! I myself only get 6 weeks leave as not every company qualifies for FMLA 12 week leave, while my husband is using a one week vacation. Don't know what we're doing with little one after that time is up as daycare is expensive.

amieeyoung · November 2014

I get FMLA, but only get paid for days I have saved- so I have been saving for years (almost 8) so I can be off 2 months paid (and have a week-week and a half for doc appts. after or if some reason I need longer off). Hubby is using some of his days- thankfully we are due right before Christmas break so he'll have a few weeks plus another week or two depending on when she comes. Really though we'd both like more.

I am thankful though, because at least we aren't losing income and get some time.

efgallarday · November 2014

My husband is getting 2 days off to be with me at the hospital and that's it... He's in charge of his own delivery route (Good because of commission, bad because he can't ever get an extra day off) so he can't just leave for a week without having someone cover for him.

Beevol · November 2014

I agree with the premise that if men take paternity leave it will decrease stigma/bias against women. I can't remember where, but I've seen articles referencing studies showing that men who take paternity leave end up more involved and better fathers who are happier a year after their babies are born.

Yeah, there's got to be selection bias (men who are more interested in parenting are more likely to take advantage of paternity leave AND men who have jobs that offer paternity leave have better jobs so that would also make them happier), but fostering cooperative and equal parenting from the very beginning has got to have an impact on both partner's attitudes toward the child/their role.

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