Letting people learn

kurban627 · November 2014

With my first pregnancy I was very laid back and allowed a student to deliver my baby and sew me up afterwards. I had a very hard birth (10 lb 2.4oz vaginal), induced, hemorrhaging, tear, etc. When the student midwife sewed me up, she did not do a good job and the stitches popped. Due to this I had to be cauterized (sp?) 30 days after having my daughter. When I was at my 12 week appointment (for this pregnancy) I had a full physical and the lady doing it told me that I "wasn't horribly deformed down there." Just what every woman wants to hear.....not.

I was extremely forceful about the fact that no one will be practicing on me this time around. I always feel obligated to be polite, but I just can't do that again. What experience have you had with practicing physicians?

Suesse2009 · November 2014

As a nurse I remember what it was like as a student nurse so I do try to give students a chance. I let a crna student try for my spinal with my first c section. It took forever and after 3 attempts someone took over. If I end up with a c section this time I am not going to be that nice. I will give a student one chance.

kurban627 · November 2014

Suesse2009 said:
As a nurse I remember what it was like as a student nurse so I do try to give students a chance. I let a crna student try for my spinal with my first c section. It took forever and after 3 attempts someone took over. If I end up with a c section this time I am not going to be that nice. I will give a student one chance.

I completely understand that sentiment and that's why I allowed it the first time. I think I would allow it for something less scary to me. I just don't want to feel pressured so I wanted it in my chart. When you were a student how did you feel when people said no? Did they do it often?

Suesse2009 · November 2014

kurban627 said:

Suesse2009 said:
As a nurse I remember what it was like as a student nurse so I do try to give students a chance. I let a crna student try for my spinal with my first c section. It took forever and after 3 attempts someone took over. If I end up with a c section this time I am not going to be that nice. I will give a student one chance.
I completely understand that sentiment and that's why I allowed it the first time. I think I would allow it for something less scary to me. I just don't want to feel pressured so I wanted it in my chart. When you were a student how did you feel when people said no? Did they do it often?

-----
I don't remember anyone saying no. Of course they might have said it ahead of time so they weren't assigned to any students from the get go.

RIngReady · November 2014

I was also a student in the hospitals and do yes I try to give students the same opportunity as people provided me with. However, I would never let a med student use forceps or a vacuum to deliver my child. Those take years of practice and can do significant damage.
As a peds OT I work with too many young children with CP who were delivered via one of those methods. No it isn't common, but I will not take the risk with my child.

kurban627 · November 2014

@RIngReady‌ I hadn't even thought about forceps or a vacuum. How scary! I went with midwives and they typically don't use those methods. I do deliver in a hospital though so they are available if necessary.

court476 · November 2014

With my last pregnancy I had a seasoned midwife sew me up cause I had a emergency episiotomy and tore. And when I went in for my 6 week check up another midwife said that the first one did such a bad job that I was probably going to have to be re-cut. Thankfully I didn't!!

Just because they are seasoned doesnt mean they don't make mistakes.

kurban627 · November 2014

court476 said:
With my last pregnancy I had a seasoned midwife sew me up cause I had a emergency episiotomy and tore. And when I went in for my 6 week check up another midwife said that the first one did such a bad job that I was probably going to have to be re-cut. Thankfully I didn't!!
Just because they are seasoned doesnt mean they don't make mistakes.

Well thank God our babies are so amazing. Pregnancy and birth sure does a number on our bodies. Ugh. I'm glad you didn't have to be re-cut. That would've been awful.

HeavensAngel20x · November 2014

I'm a nurse practitioner and this is my first pregnancy. I have been a student as a nurse and a nurse practitioner, but for my first baby I am going to be scared and I do not want students performing big procedures on me. If they want to start an IV I am all for it, suturing definitely not. I have learned the art of suturing and I have only practiced as an NP for a year and a half, and I am still novice at it. It takes many patients and years of practice to be an expert. There are procedures I do not feel comfortable yet like suturing faces especially to a young women so I have my attending physician take those patients. So all in all simple procedures yes - complex no for students practicing on me with my first pregnancy.

kurban627 · November 2014

@HeavensAngel20x‌ thanks! I appreciate your feedback.

miahbelle · November 2014

Um no. Not happening. I get they need to learn, but not on me. Some of the nurses at the birth center I go to are in training to be midwives and some times they have an intern type person in there. I let the intern check heart beat, blood pressure and watch (also let them watch and measure when I was having a regular check up), but there is no way a newbie would do stitches or anything important.

bowman958 · November 2014

I will deliver at a teaching hospital wouldn't mind having a student doing some procedures if overseen closely by the attending physician. I would definitely be cool with a resident doing some things - in April the residents will have been around at the very least for ten months (they start in July), and that will have given them time to practice. H is a doc and if everyone refused him a chance to learn, he would have ended up as an attending physician with no experience and no one checking his work, which is a reeeeally scary prospect. New residents and students is the #1 reason I will never have a baby in July.

bowman958 · November 2014

scoutfinch13 said:
I am usually happy to be a guinea pig. I actually let a first-year surgical intern/resident do my D&C a number of years ago, and once when I had a spinal tap I let a 2nd-year neuro resident perform it.

BUT I cut my lip badly once and it required stitches. For that I demanded a plastic surgeon... I wouldn't even let the ER's chief resident do it.

As I've mentioned, I'm vain. And I'm not sure I would want someone inexperienced to sew up my torn vagine. But for the most part, I'm all for helping people pop their medical cherries.

A resident in their 2nd year of Neuro should be a spinal tap PRO!!

MagalinaH · November 2014

I'm a FTM, so no experience with students in regards to labor/delivery, but I have had a student np do a pap. It hurt and she didn't turn it all the way, so she had to do it twice-but no harm. I don't think I'd be comfortable with a student learning with me during labor/delivery. I also nix any students starting ivs, drawing blood, or anything with needles. I've had enough bad experiences and am overly anxious about those types of procedures, so it's an automatic no go for me.

kurban627 · November 2014

@bowman958‌ I had my first in august. Maybe that was the issue. Too new... I didn't know there was a standard start up month.

bowman958 · November 2014

scoutfinch13 said:

bowman958 said:

scoutfinch13 said:
I am usually happy to be a guinea pig. I actually let a first-year surgical intern/resident do my D&C a number of years ago, and once when I had a spinal tap I let a 2nd-year neuro resident perform it.

BUT I cut my lip badly once and it required stitches. For that I demanded a plastic surgeon... I wouldn't even let the ER's chief resident do it.

As I've mentioned, I'm vain. And I'm not sure I would want someone inexperienced to sew up my torn vagine. But for the most part, I'm all for helping people pop their medical cherries.
A resident in their 2nd year of Neuro should be a spinal tap PRO!!
Really? Great. He seemed super nervous.

Probably just shit bedside manner, adult neurology attracts a lot of weirdo docs.

Edited: clarity

tigerlily25 · November 2014

Swoon13 said:

I'm a FTM and the hospital I will be delivering in is a teaching hospital. The newbies can come in and stare, ask me questions, check machines, vitals etc but I won't allow them to do anything terribly important. I know they need experience but my own labor experience is more important to me. Call me selfish.

This exactly how I feel as well!

lindsayanne14 · November 2014

I will let a student nurse/Dr observe the hell out of whatever I've got going on, but I'm not comfortable being "practice" for any actual procedure or intervention.

My hospital is a teaching hospital, and they have a program for uninsured moms to have their delivery compensated by allowing students/residents to perform all procedures/interventions while supervised by a staff Dr/nurse. My DH's cousin took advantage of this but threw a fit when they wouldn't provide a staff Dr to do her epi. They basically said, if you want this FREE epi a resident is doing it. She took it

bowman958 · November 2014

lindsayanne14 said:
I will let a student nurse/Dr observe the hell out of whatever I've got going on, but I'm not comfortable being "practice" for any actual procedure or intervention.

My hospital is a teaching hospital, and they have a program for uninsured moms to have their delivery compensated by allowing students/residents to perform all procedures/interventions while supervised by a staff Dr/nurse. My DH's cousin took advantage of this but threw a fit when they wouldn't provide a staff Dr to do her epi. They basically said, if you want this FREE epi a resident is doing it. She took it

So, any treatment plan/procedure/intervention a student or resident does is supervised by an attending doc. The attending is the responsible party with their ass on the line, so they watch the trainees like hawks. The program for the underprivileged that you describe is pretty common - those who can afford it refuse to be "practice," and those whose only option is the student or resident accept treatment where they can get it.

cwiceangel · November 2014

I'm delivering at a teaching hospital as well... I would love to help but first baby. I'm a pain in the ass to get blood from and so I don't let students draw my blood. I don't mind letting students take like BP, weight things like that. But if it involves needles, knives and baby... Probably passing on the students.

kurban627 · November 2014

Thanks ladies! I appreciate all of your helpful responses!

Babykells3 · November 2014

Both of my boys were born at a teaching hospital. DS1 I had no students around. DS2 I basically had a room full of students! My nurses had 2 students, the anesthesiologist had a resident who did my epidural (which only worked on one side of my body), my OB had a resident who just observed and didn't actually catch DS2. I had a second degree tear with and my OB and his resident sat between my legs discussing suturing and what not, and then another OB and her resident came in and all 4 of them were all up in my business and I wanted to kick them all. I just pushed a damn baby out, do your job and get out!
All in all it wasn't a totally bad experience. I do wish I would have had the lady OB for the whole thing though. When they were, finally, stitching me up I told them I could feel it on one side bc the epi didn't really take on the left and she goes 'oh, just pump up the epi', me- 'umm, do what now?', lady ob - 'the pump for your epidural, push the button and it gives you more', me- 'THERE WAS A PUMP?!?!'

JaneShops · November 2014

fabledmabel said:

I have the perfect acronym for this: NITV. Not in this vagina!

^^this

I've worked in a teaching hospital, and actually some medical residents have better bedside manner & more recent experience with certain procedures. Technically, they're license.

But Hell no to students, he it dr nurses or whoever else wants to get near my baby house

be888 · November 2014

I gave birth at a teaching hospital, and a resident delivered my baby with an attending watching.Except for the fact that she was like Edward Scissorhands up in there during vaginal exams, she had great bedside manners.

A great nurse coached me through 98% of the delivery process anyway, and the doctors only came in in the last 5-10 minutes of pushing.

I did not require any procedures that I would not have felt comfortable having a student perform. They need to learn, and start somewhere, they still have more medical knowledge than I do. But if you do not want to have students attend to you you can tell them.

knlouis · November 2014

oh no! no students near my neathlands OR my spine! Unless they are Gray's Anatomy 3 year resident good darn it! lol

bowman958 · November 2014

Does everyone know the difference between a med student and a resident? A med student is still in med school and rotating through clinical specialties. I can totally understand saying "no" to having procedures done by a student. A resident has completed med school - they are a doctor. They are doing training in a specialized field for several years. They are working toward becoming experts and know what they're doing, especially in their second year and beyond.

kurban627 · November 2014

@KateRN08‌ and @bowman958 thanks again ladies. It's nice to hear from you. Like I said previously the student I had was learning to be a midwife. I don't know how long she had been doing that but I'm sure she didn't have the experience of an OB resident. I like using a midwife (my original ob retired. ...I loved him) but I deliver at a hospital to ensure an OB is available. My first almost turned into an emergency c-section... and their were many conversations about the risks of possibly giving me a blood transfusion. I'd be so scared to deliver at home. I think that a medical resident would be fine. I appreciate the difference being pointed out.

DMG122183 · November 2014

I was once a medical resident. Now I'm an attending. As a resident I was doing procedures all day. I once had a mom refuse to let me draw blood from her baby because she wanted the most experienced doctor to do it. I had done 10 blood draws that week,and my attending had not needed to draw blood in 10 years! I was actually more skilled at the procedure, even with less years under my belt. It does sting a little when people think you are incompetent. I showed her in the end. After the attending tried 3 times, I got it on the first stick.

DMG122183 · November 2014

One more thought, the reason I choose to have my baby in a teaching hospital is because of the students and residents. The more brains you have looking after you the better. I am confident that if the resident or student participating in my repeat c section is not doing a perfect job, my ob will be all over it. Part of being a good attending is watching your students like a hawk and holding them to a higher standard. I don't blame people who are nervous about this scenario, but I hope this gives you piece of mind.

SuperFudge00 · November 2014

A student can put in my IV, that's about it.

be888 · November 2014

fabledmabel said:

b&e888 said:

I gave birth at a teaching hospital, and a resident delivered my baby with an attending watching.Except for the fact that she was like Edward Scissorhands up in there during vaginal exams, she had great bedside manners.

A great nurse coached me through 98% of the delivery process anyway, and the doctors only came in in the last 5-10 minutes of pushing.

I did not require any procedures that I would not have felt comfortable having a student perform. They need to learn, and start somewhere, they still have more medical knowledge than I do. But if you do not want to have students attend to you you can tell them.

*shivers*

The nurse saw my face during an exam, and mentioned it to her. She was much gentler after that. All the other vaginal exams I had during pregnancy weren't painful at all.

edelat11 · November 2014

I'm a student nurse and I remember doing my labor and deliver rotations at the county hospital so SUPER big teaching hospital. The nurses were very protective of their mommas so we we weren't big on skills how ever med students/residents were.

We did small things like IVs and Foley catheters. I still asked mom if that was ok for me to do it and let them know i was a student. Most of them were fine while I got some no's. I wasn't offended at all!

In fact I know I don't want students laying a hand on me unless its IV's or some kind of comfort care. I know its bad because I'm a student nurse but still, this is my first and already so NEW for me. I'm selfish oh well its my experience.

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