Yet another opinion.

J&D2007 · October 2014

I went back to my original RE today that did my first 3 IVF's. She did not entertain on the least doing another ivf or iuis with OE. She didn't want to even consider anything but a donor. She said a lap wouldn't make a bit of difference and she'd definitely do a fresh vs frozen. And they'd try to match or come close to the financials of rba guarantee program if I stay with them. I feel like I've been slapped in the face but I do respect the no nonsense opinion and I feel like I have to face reality at some point that my eggs just suck?! No reason why?! They just suck. Ugh.

sorrellam30 · October 2014

I know my reaction might not by typical but I felt so much better once I let go of my crappy eggs and accepted the idea of using someone's good eggs. Are you looking into other options/clinics also?

J&D2007 · October 2014

sorrellam30 said:

I know my reaction might not by typical but I felt so much better once I let go of my crappy eggs and accepted the idea of using someone's good eggs. Are you looking into other options/clinics also?

I wish I could say that sorrellam. But I am not even close to being there yet and I've been trying for quite awhile to adjust to it. I still just feel like if we got the right meds and protocol that we could be successful. The last ivf we did with this RE we had 13R/13F and a beautiful, normal blast. I can't seem to let go of the fact that we can't try anymore.

Grateful&Thankful · October 2014

*****PAIF

It's so hard to know which advice you should take. IVF is truly an art & there's not a textbook to tell these doctors how to exactly treat each patient. I struggled with this A LOT too. I just wasn't ready to give up on my OE. My first clinic told me I'd never get pregnant with my own eggs after my first IVF. It's just mind blowing to me how much doctors' opinions can differ. Then you have to throw in the fact of wondering whether the optimistic ones are just money hungry and saying what you want to hear. Infertility just sucks. I'm sorry you have to make this tough decision. (((HUGS)))

sorrellam30 · October 2014

J&D2007 said:

sorrellam30 said:

I know my reaction might not by typical but I felt so much better once I let go of my crappy eggs and accepted the idea of using someone's good eggs. Are you looking into other options/clinics also?

I wish I could say that sorrellam. But I am not even close to being there yet and I've been trying for quite awhile to adjust to it. I still just feel like if we got the right meds and protocol that we could be successful. The last ivf we did with this RE we had 13R/13F and a beautiful, normal blast. I can't seem to let go of the fact that we can't try anymore.

Interesting, does your RE explain why they won't try again with your eggs?? Seems odd with your history. Mine gave me the option of trying some more with my eggs, I was just ready to move on

chucktgirl · October 2014

***PAIF RESPONSE***

Hey J&D, you've been knocked down so much, and it SUCKS!
Letting go of the prospect of OE is easy for some, hard for others, and impossible for some, like me.
There are no guarantees no matter what path you choose. For me, it took 5 1/2 cycles of OE to get where I am now. I am SO glad I persisted. However, it could have just as easily not worked. Each RE tried once or twice, then gave up on me, so I moved along to the next RE. (I've been to FOUR!) I don't know what made this one stick. I hope you're able to try again with your OE, since I know that is where your heart still is. You're strong. Weather this bump and keep moving forward.

luvboston · October 2014

I would say go with your gut. If your gut says this is it for your own eggs then it is, if not I would not leave any stone unturned and find someone that is on board with your thinking. This is coming from someone that every doctor told to adopt or get a surrogate.
I would say if you haven't tried Lovenox prednisone then you haven't tried everything. Have you had immune testing done?

Twinkie0612 · October 2014

luvboston said:

I would say go with your gut. If your gut says this is it for your own eggs then it is, if not I would not leave any stone unturned and find someone that is on board with your thinking. This is coming from someone that every doctor told to adopt or get a surrogate. I would say if you haven't tried Lovenox prednisone then you haven't tried everything. Have you had immune testing done?

This. We did 3 cycles with OE (1 cancelled transfer, 1 c/p, 1 BFN) and my RE recommended moving on to 3rd party repro. We felt that moving on to donor embryos was the path we needed to be on. When that cycle also failed, we were forced to look into whether or not there were issues outside of my eggs that were causing our failures. That's when we decided to look into more indepth immune testing. The RI found a few issues that we could treat, which made us take another look at OE. We ended up switching to a different RE (same clinic) that supports us doing another OE cycle. She really thought that with some protocol changes, that OE was still a good option for us. If this cycle fails I think we will probably go the DE route or give donor embryos another shot.

J&D2007 · October 2014

sorrellam30 said:

J&D2007 said:

sorrellam30 said:

I know my reaction might not by typical but I felt so much better once I let go of my crappy eggs and accepted the idea of using someone's good eggs. Are you looking into other options/clinics also?

I wish I could say that sorrellam. But I am not even close to being there yet and I've been trying for quite awhile to adjust to it. I still just feel like if we got the right meds and protocol that we could be successful. The last ivf we did with this RE we had 13R/13F and a beautiful, normal blast. I can't seem to let go of the fact that we can't try anymore.

Interesting, does your RE explain why they won't try again with your eggs?? Seems odd with your history. Mine gave me the option of trying some more with my eggs, I was just ready to move on

She says we have tried a lot and had the same results each time with different clinics and different protocols. She just says that the best odds of having a child is with a DE. I just can't get into the situation where I pay for 2 more OE Ivfs, then have to pay for DE cycles. It will be WAY above financially what we are able to do.

J&D2007 · October 2014

luvboston said:

I would say go with your gut. If your gut says this is it for your own eggs then it is, if not I would not leave any stone unturned and find someone that is on board with your thinking. This is coming from someone that every doctor told to adopt or get a surrogate. I would say if you haven't tried Lovenox prednisone then you haven't tried everything. Have you had immune testing done?

My gut says go with OE, but my pocketbook is disagreeing. We are in too deep to do both OE and DE, so if OE fails, then we are out. I totally agree with you that we haven't tried everything. What I want is an EPP antagon cycle with FSH only high dose stims and a freeze all at day 5, then adding lovenox and pred (even possibly a 2 mos stint with depot lupron) before FET. That's what I truly

sorrellam30 · October 2014

Unfortunately it originally came down to money for us and our decision process too. I am happy with our choice but I completely understand feeling trapped by the financial aspect.

Km672 · October 2014

Instead of doing 2 OE IVFs (only because I saw you mentioned this in a post), could you try 1 more with the protocol you want and maybe more seriously consider DE?

I know it's expensive, and I totally get that, but the financial burden would be less if you did 1 more cycle vs 2 and maybe you would be more open to DE if you do get the same results? I hope you have better results and don't even have to make this decision, but it sounds like you're not ready for DE.

Maybe if you get to try the protocol you want and worst case you have the same results and maybe some closure on your OE?

I'm not trying to push DE on you at all, but I'm just thinking you're not going to be ready if you don't get to try at least once more with OE and the protocol you want. It sounds like you will wonder 'what if'.

Like I said, I hope you are successful with OE, but having a plan always helped me get through the possibility of another failed cycle.

My 4th IVF, I just knew I was done with OE. I did want to try 1 more time, but when I kept doing the same thing over and over (though different clinics and protocols) and failing each time, I was ready to move forward with DE.

I'm not saying that this will be the case for you. You might never be ok with DE and that's ok too, but I just wanted to share my experience and how I came to terms with trying DE.

J&D2007 · October 2014

Thanks km, I appreciate your help. I would consider OE one more time, but I feel so guilty and terrible about being so 'selfish' and wasting money when DH and the RE are not for it. Spending another $15,000 to make me feel better feels very selfish. I'm trying my best to move on, I just don't think my heart will until I'm pregnant with DE embryo. Then I sure hope I will be happy and feel the closure I need?

Mrs.McIrish · October 2014

Ticker warning****************

I feel compelled to respond but am not entirely sure how to structure my response. I think I have seen just about everything IF-wise in my time here. Your RE cannot possibly know that a lap would do nothing or that another OE IVF would fail. There's nothing definite about any of this. I personally know 3 women who got pregnant with their OEs after having a DE baby. There are mysteries in all things reproductive that no one knows. She's protecting her stats and I wouldn't want to give my $ to someone who does that for DE. I think it's fine to say "I don't believe this will work but as long as you know the risks and want to do it anyway, we can try". As you said, you did have a normal embryo at one time yet it still didn't stick. Why? Bad luck? Immune issues?? So tough to say. It can happen with DE too bc it's an "unknown". I was always grateful for my last OE clinic bc they let me try until I was done with it.

No one can tell you what to do financially. I couldn't risk that much $ but everyone's financial tolerance for loss is different. I never thought we'd spend what we did on DE but we found a way. But I needed that guarantee bc I knew I would be devastated to have no baby and no money.

DE is not a cure all or a given. It took us 4 tries. Ask MM or KM. DE can uncover other issues that weren't known during OE tries. Immune issues are tough to diagnose and to find the right fix. For some, nothing ever works and no one knows why.

Age-related IF is different IMO. Looking for a good egg at a certain age is just different than going through lots of eggs at an earlier age and not finding any that work. Or having next to zero eggs at an earlier age.

I don't think you are ready for DE. I have zero regrets about letting go of genetics. It just doesn't mean much to me. I can't wait to meet my babies in a few weeks. They will always know how much they were wanted and I would hate for anyone to have a DE baby that they would resent bc they didn't come from OEs.

STL34 · October 2014

J&D2007 said:

Thanks km, I appreciate your help. I would consider OE one more time, but I feel so guilty and terrible about being so 'selfish' and wasting money when DH and the RE are not for it. Spending another $15,000 to make me feel better feels very selfish. I'm trying my best to move on, I just don't think my heart will until I'm pregnant with DE embryo. Then I sure hope I will be happy and feel the closure I need?

You shouldn't feel like you are being selfish because you would like to try OE again. If that is what you need to find peace, then that is what you need. It isn't selfish. And, while DE may give you a better shot than OE, as @Mrs.McIrish said, DE isn't a sure thing. Also, it is true for many women (including most female factor infertility patients) that DE would give them a better shot than OE. But, that doesn't mean it is selfish for them to try their own eggs.

((HUGE HUGS)) I hate that you are having to make this decision and I hate, hate, HATE how much money factors in to the decisions we make with respect to fertility.

J&D2007 · October 2014

@mcirish, thanks for the response and advice, I appreciate the input. I actually do respect the opinion of the RE I just saw. She could make a lot more money if I did 3 ivf failures then DE. I think she's just saying DE may be the fastest route for a baby and that the studies she reads says a lap doesn't statistically improve the odds for 'most' women, not necessarily for me. Her goal is the get me a child and her opinion is that DE would be the best choice. I think every RE knows there is a 'chance' still with perfect protocol, etc., but not the best chance out there. I really don't think that I could ever resent a child, I'm not that type of person. I love my silly, crazy dog with all my heart and he's just a dog:-). I'm not afraid I will not want or love a DE child because I will fall in love the minute the stick turns pink! I just have to get over the mourning/loss feeling I have now to make the decision.

RunCC37 · October 2014

Sending hugs your way

I had a really hard time wrapping my mind around DE. I can't exactly say what helped me through it... just one day, I thought about it and it was ok. It took time... it was painful.

If you're still thinking about your OE, then I think you should take the time you need to sit with those thoughts. I know that's hard.

More hugs

hmz819 · November 2014

I was in this exact situation a year ago. Four REs were telling me that donor egg was the best chance for a take home baby but I just couldn't get on board with the idea. I had had 3 miscarriages up to that point (one was chromosomally normal) and they all kept telling me it was due to bad eggs. My thought was surely all my eggs at 36 can't be bad especially since I get pregnant....I just miscarry. I felt very selfish for spending the big bucks at the high priced clinic to do IVF with my OE but it was what I needed to do. During those IVFs I was able to start to wrap my head around DE because I felt like I had done all I could do with OE and I felt I went to the best clinic and if they can't get me pregnant with OE no one would be able to. My story isn't finished yet with OE but if it doesn't end with a THB I feel that I have done everything that I could have done and have no "what ifs".

If you feel you need to do another OE cycle or two to make sure you have done everything you can do then I think that's what you should do. I know finances play a HUGE part in all of this but once I stopped letting finances rule my decisions I found I made better and smarter decisions.

DE will always be there as age isn't as important. So even if you have to wait a few years to save up you can still do DE into your mid to late 40s.

I am so sorry you have to struggle with this decision. It is so personal.

J&D2007 · November 2014

Thanks @hmz for your thoughts. What are you up to now? I see you did egg banking for 3 cycles and I either missed your posts or you've moved on? In a perfect world where I could choose where my journey led without worrying about finances, I would do what you did in a heartbeat. I'd do 3 cycles with egg banking. I just can't afford to have nothing at the end:-(. Thanks again and let me know what's going on with you!

Ecarabeo217 · November 2014

***PAIF***

I agree with everyone saying you have to go with your gut. After IVF2 failed with "gorgeous" blasts being transferred, even the RE was baffled and we started talking about DE as a possibility. I didn't think I had it in me to go through another cycle, let alone consider DE. When we managed to get our heads around going for cycle 3, I had gone back to my original RE and we regrouped and dos immune studies. These "lit up like a xmas tree" we're the words my RE used to give me results. We wouldn't have had reasons to suspect any immune issues prior. We thought my egg issues were age related. I was put on all sorts of egg-health cocktails and supplements and acupuncture, etc. turned out intralipids and lovenox seemed to be the answer. Go with your gut. Insist on additional testing, at least, until you're satisfied. It is a huge emotional and financial investment to make for you not to be 100% sure you're being given your best shot. I wish you luck and strength while you decide

J&D2007 · November 2014

Thanks ecarabeo for your input. Although I agree with you ladies 100% on going with your gut and mine tells me that I could do immune studies and try a few more Ivfs with new protocol, etc. However, I just don't have the money anymore. I can't spend all the money without insurance for immune testing and more ivf. I need a higher percentage shot at this for my last remaining dollar, so I will have to go with DE.

hmz819 · November 2014

@J&D2007 it sounds like you have made a decision. What are your next steps?

J&D2007 · November 2014

Yes, I guess we have. I met with my RE to go over next steps yesterday if I choose fresh DE with them. I have meetings with 2 fresh DE agencies next week. DH almost had a heart attack on the price of a single fresh cycle ($28,000ish). He was all about the fresh DE locally but now he may be having second thoughts about going to shady grove or rba for frozen egg. I think for now I am pursuing all options and getting all the necessary testing and bloodwork and paperwork for all the choices before we decide.

hmz819 · November 2014

Sounds like a good plan!! So happy you are starting to have a plan.

STL34 · November 2014

Sounds like a great plan!

RunCC37 · November 2014

it does sound like a great plan. None of this is easy, but keep listening to your heart and you'll find the way

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