News story about septuplets Loss mentioned

motherboy · October 2014

https://www.people.com/article/north-carolina-couple-lose-septuplets

I'm curious to hear different perspectives on this. What do you think about the couple's choice to not lessen the number of fetuses?

It is heartbreaking that this happened to them but I can't help but think that this was unwise in the first place: I thought after octomom that fertility specialists were forbidden or at least very much recommended against doing practices that would create such high order multiples.

jneden · October 2014

This is heartbreaking. She was so close to them having a chance at survival. I personally wouldn't be able to choose selective reduction either. That's a horrible decision for a mother to have to make. I couldn't imagine.

BookitBoo · October 2014

well, I'm an emotional mess now. That poor family

LooneyLife · October 2014

motherboy said:
https://www.people.com/article/north-carolina-couple-lose-septuplets

I'm curious to hear different perspectives on this. What do you think about the couple's choice to not lessen the number of fetuses?

It is heartbreaking that this happened to them but I can't help but think that this was unwise in the first place: I thought after octomom that fertility specialists were forbidden or at least very much recommended against doing practices that would create such high order multiples.

She didn't have IVF like Octomom though. It sounds like they did ovulation induction (with drugs). Another article I read said they believed there to only be 1 follicle (they said egg). Obviously several eggs were released.

emilyp2013 · October 2014

Heart broken. :-( I couldn't judge whatever decision they made. I'm sure it was right for them at the time they made it. I believe all those babies were human and their lives each impossibly valuable from the moment they were conceived. I don't think there's a way I could opt to have some of my babies picked off, either, coming from that point of view. (I acknowledge other people see life differently, please don't take my expression of my view on life as a political statement of any kind.)

Maebb · October 2014

Heart-breaking. I probably would not choose selective reduction (for me), but that's a really tough, personal choice.

I am a Christian, but I get pretty uncomfortable with talk about "God's will" when it comes to infertility and pregnancy loss. I don't know. I've had two losses, and I just know that it's an incredibly sad thing, and my heart breaks for anyone else who has to go through it.

britb618 · October 2014

I believe it is a life. Which would make it impossible. But the reasonable side of me would keep fighting that belief and so I really don't know what I would do. Incredibly heartbreaking.

honeybeee3 · October 2014

My heart breaks for that woman and her family, so sad.

As far as the selective reduction- I'm not sure that I would be able to do this myself, but I don't know because I have never been on that situation. I would never judge them for their choice not to reduce, even if it increased their risks. I also wouldn't judge them if they had chosen TO reduce as these are all very personal decisions. I don't think it is ever fair to judge others for their choices when it comes to family planning. Period.

TXUltraRunner · October 2014

When we began our fertility treatments: Ovulation drugs, IUI and then IVF, we had a very serious conversation about selective reduction. We had decided that anything over 3 we would reduce. Knowing it's a touchy subject, we also agreed that we would never tell anyone about our decision because it was no one's business but ours.

On that note, I find it hard to believe that the couple did IVF. They probably did IUI or ovulation drugs. They are harder to control the number of eggs that get released and it's harder to manage for multiples.

I do respect their decision not to reduce as I know that it would be a really hard choice to make and it's certainly not for everyone. My heart breaks for them.

Milagros315 · October 2014

That's heartbreaking

Regarding how it happened: Like Looney said, she didn't do IVF. The article linked just says she used fertility drugs. Unfortunately there are a lot of doctors (typically OBs) who prescribe fertility drugs without monitoring their patients properly to ensure that the chance of this happening does not exist. I have no idea if that was the case for this couple, but it does happen. I find it a little hard to believe that a doctor thought there was only one mature follicle rather than at least seven, but I guess it could happen especially with PCOS.

In general, there are very few situations where a fertility specialist (RE) will recommend transferring more than 3 embryos or triggering for IUI with that many mature follicles. There are recommendations published by the ASRM and most cases push for just 1 or 2 embryos.

H and I also had to discuss selective reduction before going through IVF. We were completely against it. I make no judgments against anyone who would choose that, but I knew that I didn't want to CHOOSE to be in that position and then CHOOSE which babies got to live and which didn't. I knew I would not be strong enough to make the choice, so we took whatever precautions were possible to try to prevent that from happening. I wish that no one ever had to make those types of choices.

melmarie4 · October 2014

My husband and I talked about we would do in this situation. On one hand you want to have faith that all of them will survive, but to lose all of them would be so terrible. Reducing would greatly increase their chance for survival, but how would you even begin to decide how many to reduce or which ones to reduce? There would always be a part of me that would regret the decision I made unless I kept all of them, and they all lived with no serious complications. There is not an easy answer no matter what choice a family makes. I wouldn't judge anyone for the decision either way. I wish the family had a better outcome, so heartbreaking

motherboy · October 2014

Milagros315 said:
That's heartbreaking

Regarding how it happened: Like Looney said, she didn't do IVF. The article linked just says she used fertility drugs. Unfortunately there are a lot of doctors (typically OBs) who prescribe fertility drugs without monitoring their patients properly to ensure that the chance of this happening does not exist. I have no idea if that was the case for this couple, but it does happen. I find it a little hard to believe that a doctor thought there was only one mature follicle rather than at least seven, but I guess it could happen especially with PCOS.

In general, there are very few situations where a fertility specialist (RE) will recommend transferring more than 3 embryos or triggering for IUI with that many mature follicles. There are recommendations published by the ASRM and most cases push for just 1 or 2 embryos.

H and I also had to discuss selective reduction before going through IVF. We were completely against it. I make no judgments against anyone who would choose that, but I knew that I didn't want to CHOOSE to be in that position and then CHOOSE which babies got to live and which didn't. I knew I would not be strong enough to make the choice, so we took whatever precautions were possible to try to prevent that from happening. I wish that no one ever had to make those types of choices.

Thank you for explaining the science of it.

I want to emphasize I was not ever judging this couple's decision: I think it has to be one of the hardest things a couple could face.

BookitBoo · October 2014

@motherboy‌

I totally understand what you meant. I can't say what I would decide to do because I'm not in the situation and it's just so much bigger than a split second decision made hypothetically to me. I don't even feel comfortable, personally, trying to think about the choices!

Milagros315 · October 2014

@motherboy - I didn't think you (or anyone else) sounded judgmental either! In my response, I just wanted it to be clear that just because we didn't feel like it was a choice we could handle does NOT mean that I don't understand and respect that it's the right choice for others.

southernyankeegirl · October 2014

Everything @Milagros315 says.

Stories like this make me really, really angry - at the doctor! Women trust their Ob/gyns, and many of them simply hand out fertility drugs like candy. It gives fertility treatment in general a really bad reputation, and most women who went through treatment and spoke openly about it heard from at least someone, "Oh, don't do that! Aren't you afraid you'll end up like Octomom or Jon & Kate Gosslin?"

The truth is that the doctor should be doing monitoring. There should never be a question how many eggs are releasing. If there's too many, the couple should be advised to abstain. "Too many" depends on several factors, including the infertility diagnosis (for which the doctor would have had to have done proper testing, and many Ob/gyns skip this step and just hand out Clomid like candy on Halloween), the age of the patient, prior history with fertility & treatment cycles, etc. For me, our doctor would not have allowed us to proceed with more than 3 mature eggs.

It makes me really, really angry when doctors don't do this. It puts people in the impossible position of deciding on selective reduction, risks the health of Mom and babies, and is just all around a terrible idea.

Sometimes things happen - there's only 3 eggs but 2 of them spontaneously split into identical twins so there's 5 babies from 3 eggs (non-identical, or fraternal, twins are from two different eggs, which is most common with fertility treatment though it does happen sometimes when a woman releases more than one egg - identical twins are when one egg splits, and happens with the same chances for all women - about 1.5%). But with proper monitoring, the chances of this are SOOOO remote.

We had about a 25% chance of twins and a 5% chance of triplets. The chances for anything higher were less than 0.5%. That's a responsible doctor.

I don't blame the mother, but I want the doctors who create these situations to be banned from prescribing fertility meds going forward. They need to refer to someone who actually knows what they're doing.

lavet22 · October 2014

What a sad story! My heart goes out to that family. So sad!!

I don't have a problem saying I would reduce. I would NEVER want to be in that situation and I don't judge anyone in the situation for making whatever is best for them. I would reduce to 3, as that's the most I would feel capable of carrying. As far as how to choose, it's my understanding that the doctor takes the closest to them.

bouguerba · October 2014

I couldn't imagine losing that many at all let alone at once..so sad I agree with everyone saying it's a difficult decision (one I personally would have a hard time making as well) hopefully this story can be an example for others on the risks if not monitored/distributed correctly I wish the couple luck in the future

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