Would you pull your kids? - updated

redbirdmom · October 2014

I am so upset. I picked up my 18 month old and 3 year old from day care early today, right when lunch was ending. My son was beside himself upset (he is younger one). My daughter say "he didnt want to eat his green beans." So I get them ready, shoes on, etc, he is stil inconsolable. I get them to the car and he opens his month - full of green beans. I ask my daughter what happened, no leading questions and she says the day care provider opened his mouth and put them in. My kids have been here about a year and a half, no other major issues, although she does tell kids "eat your food" in a mean voice. I have heard this and my daughter does it at home sometime, however I never knew it translated to forcing. We are at a licensed in home care. Provider almost a,ways has an assisAt present, not today. Kids are slated to start a preschool in January but I am strongly considering pulling now. What would you do?

fitmom82 · October 2014

I wouldn't pull them out for that, especially if you're starting preschool in January. If you want to switch them to that school now, but I wouldn't add a new school into the rotation.

I believe about 1/4 of what my 4 year old tells me. Could it be possible that maybe she tried tricking him into eating the beans and when he realized it he was upset? If he was so upset didn't you ask why? What did the DCP say about it?

RibbitGrl930 · October 2014

I'd first try to verify if that was the case. I don't mean to clal your daughter a liar, but, if they were both supposed to be eating lunch at the same time with their respective classes, I have a hard time understanding how she was able to pay close enough attention to what was happening at her brother's table to see clearly what was going on. She may have misread the situation and assumed that's what happened.

Assuming she was correct...Is this the first incident that chips away at your trust of this daycare? If so, I'd have a sit-down with the teacher/or the director to voice your concerns. If you exhibit other things that give you reservations, then I'd start looking at other centers. If things like this have popped up before, then yes, I'd seriously consider pulling.

redbirdmom · October 2014

Thanks for your response! Really do appreciate it They are at a small inhome and so all eat at the same table. It was also strange because they were all back in the play room and not kitchen anymore, so very strange he still had food in his mouth. She just said she thought he was getting tired, as it was close to nap time. Also wanted to note she didnt know I was coming early.

Pips09 · October 2014

I would specifically ask her tomorrow what happened with the green beans, and ask her if she did what your daughter said she did. See what her reaction and response is, and go from there.

Kewii · October 2014

She thought he was getting tired so she shoved green beans in his mouth? And why would you coming early matter? I would be concerned.

bumpuser10331514 · October 2014

My knee jerk reaction was to pull them. Then I changed my mind thinking you could just let the woman off the hook by letting her know that it's ok if he doesn't want to eat a particular food that she's served. Then I thought about how hard it would be to force feed my DS (who is super-annoying to feed) b/c he's so squirrely. And how unlikely it would be that my DS would keep a food in his mouth that he didn't like for more than half a second. And now I'm back to thinking you should pull them.

Mustardseed2007 · October 2014

I would be very upset also. While I agree that 4 year olds invent things or misremember things, I agree that the best thing to do is ask about it.

Something like- yesterday when we got to the car his mouth was full of green beans, were you aware he had green beans in his mouth? Were you putting green beans in his mouth to encourage him to eat them? Do you ever do that?

It's very concerning-it's dangerous and mean.

2chatter · October 2014

I would not ask her any leading questions at all - I would ask really open questions and see what she says, "when we got in the car he had a mouth full of green beans. At home when he decides he doesn't want to eat something it is impossible. How did you get him to eat them?" I find that people are more honest if they think you are "in their corner". She might tell you she forced him to eat them. If you go at her asking yes and no questions she will just confirm what she thinks you want to hear, most likely.

I would probably drop by right at lunch tomorrow.

redbirdmom · October 2014

Thank you so so so much everyone, I really appreciate all of the advice, especially on specific questions to ask. I want to talk with her before I pull them but she has some serious issues to address. I don't work on Thursdays but will talk with her first thing Friday. I wish I could get them in the preschool now but we have already been on waiting list for 4 months. One of the best in our area and I am very excited about it and hate to switch twice, but obviously will if it needs to be done. Thank you again. I am a long time lurker on this page and am so thankful for you all today helping me through this. I was feeling really alone, lost my mom not too long ago and am only one of my friends who uses daycare. Thank you for helping me feel not alone.

traveltheworld · October 2014

PrivacyWanted said:

Yes I would. Regardless of how the green beans got there the issue for me would be an 18 month old walking around with a mouthful of green beans unsupervised. At least at our center and the others we toured mouths are checked post meal until 2 because choking hazard. I thought it was regulation. Also it sounds like your gut is telling you something is wrong. Always follow your gut

This. Would your son ever hold food in his mouth at home? If he doesn't, I'd be concerned that somehow he is very scared of the day home lady, and that's why he didn't spit them out. Also, if he was crying, having food in his mouth would have been a choking hazard and she should have addressed that before you got there.

shannm · October 2014

Yes, I would look for alternative care.

djm31012 · October 2014

I would not be happy about this and regardless of her explanation wouldnt be comfortable keeping my LOs there. You can talk to her...but I would also do a few more random pop ins at different times on different days to try and catch her off guard. Is there anyway you can get a nanny for the short term? its just a few months, so maybe a babysitter or nanny would be better than putting them in a different center for a few months. I am upset by this!

ASmallWonder · October 2014

I absolutely think questions are in order but I agree that I don't believe a lot my 4 year old tells me. And it's not always about flat out lying but a difference in perception or whatever. And while I agree it's dangerous for a child to be holding food in his or her mouth, you did say that you showed up as lunch was ending so technically, you were the caregiver at lunch end. I'm not saying that to place blame at all, just that, arriving at that time you may have changed the usual flow of things, know what I mean? Maybe she normally does check them but you got there and started getting him ready and so it didn't happen.

But like I said - it's definitely more than worthy of some questions. GL!

[Deleted User] · October 2014

Ask for clarification.

Then pull and report. Force feeding a child is absolutely unacceptable.

skibunny59 · October 2014

SomebabiesMom said:

My knee jerk reaction was to pull them. Then I changed my mind thinking you could just let the woman off the hook by letting her know that it's ok if he doesn't want to eat a particular food that she's served. Then I thought about how hard it would be to force feed my DS (who is super-annoying to feed) b/c he's so squirrely. And how unlikely it would be that my DS would keep a food in his mouth that he didn't like for more than half a second. And now I'm back to thinking you should pull them.

This! I would definitely talk to the provider about it to get her side of the story but this is very strange.

The only way my DD would ever keep food in her mouth that she didn't want to eat is if she felt scared or threatened somehow.

GillianB32 · October 2014

Any updates @redbirdmom ? THis story touched me and I have been following this thoroughly. I agree with @traveltheworld , @Mustardseed2007 , PrivacyWanted . I would pull my kids immediately and homeschool or leave them with my parents or find something else.

redbirdmom · October 2014

Thank you again everyone.

I talked with our provider today. My question to her to start conversation was - what happened to make Michael so upset when I picked him up Wednesday?

She was honest and said he was upset because she made him eat his green beans - I asked for clarification on "made" - she was very clear she did not feed him, but would not let him up from the table until he did. She said she was worried because he had not eaten anything all day.

As far as food still being in his mouth, I showed up right when he was finishing up - he was the last kid to be done eating and basically she didnt check because I showed up - and she was very apologetic about this.

Also interesting last night I noticed he does take forever to finish food in his mouth - I thought he was done eating, I had been cleaning up while he was in his booster and still had food in his mouth - so I guess I need to do a better job about checking but also told her she does as well.

I explained in depth we dont ever force our kids to eat what they dont want - I said I dont expect her to make something else or give a snack but DO NOT ever make them eat something they dont want. She said she would respect this.

I am obviously still VERY worried about everything. I havent slept the past 2 nights trying to figure out what is best. I did an insane amount of research before we started with her - called every single parent (all those same kids are still there.) has been 0 percent turnover in kids since we started and very little turnover in her helpers. I am planning to do a few pop-ins over lunch. I really hate to switch them twice in 10 weeks - my husband feels like we should leave them he is more worried about the unknown/having them deal with two big changes. Honestly my kids have been happy, clean, engaged, etc. This is really the first time I have ever questioned anything. I am going to take some more time this weekend to think about things and continue to appreciate any feedback from this awesome group.

litzo27 · October 2014

I think she gave a reasonable explanation and I would stay. And like PP said my 3 year old frequently says things that are not true, not intentionally but he still has difficulty accurately relating events (heck, even my 6 year old occasionally does). I think it's a good idea to pop in and get a peace of mind. I also liked that you specified that she is not responsible in making him something else. I have told my daycare teachers that if DS2 doesn't eat his lunch and then asks something they can reoffer him lunch. And he frequently finishes it. Interesting about food in mouth - mine only do that to annoy me

Beevol · October 2014

It's a very reasonable explanation and honestly, my bigger concern would be the fact that your 4 year old is mimicking a "mean voice" and is internalizing the situation as her baby brother having been forced to eat green beans rather than the fact that this day care provider tells toddlers that they cannot get up from the table until they have eaten green beans (if that makes sense).

I would feel comfortable leaving them in this day care situation rather than switching for 10 weeks - I'm guessing a place that would take two kids on short/no notice for less than three months will be a worse option. Plus, telling kids they must eat all the food that is served to them is a parenting style that's not mine but also not abusive. You've let the provider know that you'd rather he learn his lessons by going hungry than by feeling coerced and that's a legit parenting choice (and the one I would make myself) and she sounds on board with it.

SunAndRain · October 2014

redbirdmom said:

Thank you again everyone.

I talked with our provider today. My question to her to start conversation was - what happened to make Michael so upset when I picked him up Wednesday?
She was honest and said he was upset because she made him eat his green beans - I asked for clarification on "made" - she was very clear she did not feed him, but would not let him up from the table until he did. She said she was worried because he had not eaten anything all day.
As far as food still being in his mouth, I showed up right when he was finishing up - he was the last kid to be done eating and basically she didnt check because I showed up - and she was very apologetic about this.
Also interesting last night I noticed he does take forever to finish food in his mouth - I thought he was done eating, I had been cleaning up while he was in his booster and still had food in his mouth - so I guess I need to do a better job about checking but also told her she does as well.

I explained in depth we dont ever force our kids to eat what they dont want - I said I dont expect her to make something else or give a snack but DO NOT ever make them eat something they dont want. She said she would respect this.

I am obviously still VERY worried about everything. I havent slept the past 2 nights trying to figure out what is best. I did an insane amount of research before we started with her - called every single parent (all those same kids are still there.) has been 0 percent turnover in kids since we started and very little turnover in her helpers. I am planning to do a few pop-ins over lunch. I really hate to switch them twice in 10 weeks - my husband feels like we should leave them he is more worried about the unknown/having them deal with two big changes. Honestly my kids have been happy, clean, engaged, etc. This is really the first time I have ever questioned anything. I am going to take some more time this weekend to think about things and continue to appreciate any feedback from this awesome group.

I'd pull them.

She sounds like a moron. She demonstrate poor judgment.

Her reaction to her "concern" that he hadn't eaten all day should have been to TELL YOU at pick up about her concerns. You could have then monitored him at home and then, based on how he did, talk to her them next day about what that plan of action should be if he continued to not eat at daycare.

But to PUNISH him for this by making his sit at the table? Unreasonable. Unacceptable.

This isn't one incident. This is an indication of her lack of expertise in childhood development and skills in teaching children.

MickeyM04 · October 2014

I think I would leave them for the 10 weeks, honestly. Her explanation seems pretty reasonable to me, and I appreciate her concern that your LO had not eaten all day. Honestly I don't agree with the philosophy but I think that's pretty typical with childcare to not always agree on everything with childcare providers. I have routinely had to ask DD's teachers to do things a little bit different to meet with my preferences (they let other LOs have light blankets--I say no blankets until 1 even if the teachers are monitoring, things like that).. She may be of the mindset that you don't get up from the table without eating; I know that's how my husband was raised. I am of the mindset that you are never forced to eat, and if that means you get up from the table hungry, you get up from the table hungry.

You expressed your concerns and she sounds like she is going to be mindful of them, and her explanation does not sound concerning to me, just like a different technique that I might not agree with but that can be modified for your LO. That being said, if she has provided you with an explanation and you STILL don't feel good about it, then that's all that matters, and even if it's only for 10 weeks, you should pull them so you can sleep at night knowing you approve of your childcare provider. Regardless of whether me or 50 other people tell you that they understand where your provider is coming from.

2chatter · October 2014

I might be misinterpreting, but it sounds like DS didn't eat anything, and was sitting at the table until he ate something. This happens in our house, and I certainly do not consider it force feeding. I do have the kids sit there if they refuse to eat and remind them there will be no snacks. DS at that age would scream and cry and eat something - but boy was he mad. Sometimes he calmed down, didn't want to eat and then went to play. Sometimes he would chill out, realize it was time to eat not play, and eat something. If DS wasn't eating and he had to sit there for a bit so she could be sure that he would not calm down and eat, that totally makes sense to me.

SunAndRain · October 2014

2chatter said:

I might be misinterpreting, but it sounds like DS didn't eat anything, and was sitting at the table until he ate something. This happens in our house, and I certainly do not consider it force feeding. I do have the kids sit there if they refuse to eat and remind them there will be no snacks. DS at that age would scream and cry and eat something - but boy was he mad. Sometimes he calmed down, didn't want to eat and then went to play. Sometimes he would chill out, realize it was time to eat not play, and eat something. If DS wasn't eating and he had to sit there for a bit so she could be sure that he would not calm down and eat, that totally makes sense to me.

Hmm....maybe I'll need to rethink my response

bumpuser10331514 · October 2014

Her explanation sounds legit to me with the caveat @PrivacyWanted mentioned about making him sit there until he finished (as opposed to sitting there until the other kids were done); but I don't think that's abusive - just a difference in parenting philosophies.

My apologies for any sleeplessness that I contributed to - obviously I've had a few sleepless nights of my own. If only parenting was like every other facet of the world where it's better to underreact than overreact...

:-<

fitmom82 · October 2014

I can't help but question things at daycare all the time, I don't think where they go is horrible, I just always wonder what goes on when I"m not there. The only thing that makes me comfortable is the fact that I drop them both off happy every morning and pick them up happy every afternoon. DS started this daycare at 16 months. He cried... all day... for two weeks. For the past year he's never cried at drop off so I know it was just him adjusting. He had been in daycare as an infant, but I did switch them to be close to home, so it wasn't that he was adjusting to being away from me, he was adjusting to the new place. Unless you truely feel their safety is in danger, personally I think it would be cruel to switch them twice within 3 months. If they're comfortable and happy, I'd leave it alone.

Want a personalized experience?

Would you pull your kids? - updated

Re: Would you pull your kids? - updated

Choose Another Board

Search Boards