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I defy anyone to find the "insulting" part of my post.
There was one line that was a little harshly worded but it wasn't insulting.
My post was in response to something written below me BY A TEACHER. Her comment was that nobody understands how tough teachers have it because they are expected to finish work at home. My reply was why don't teachers understand that ALL working women have it tough. Period. Other than asking that one question about teachers, my post does not contain any other reference to the actual profession of teaching or any judgement. I then posted about a lot of hard working women in other occupations. I followed that up by stating that I KNOW teachers work hard, I just don't get why teachers think they are the only ones who do. End of post. Period.
All of the whining and flames that ensued were based on imaginary insults that were never actually written in my post. So I guess most of you were responding to your own issues and not my actual post.
I did think it was funny that I was accused of "generalizing" when I asked one very specific question based on a quote by A TEACHER about why teachers don't acknowledge that ALL working women have it tough in one way or another. 50-60 teachers then followed that up by explaining to me how they really DID have it tougher than any other working women and all the reasons why. I am wondering, now that I have an statistical sampling of 50-60 teachers, 98% of whom have proven my point that teachers think that they have it so much tougher than any other working woman, is it still a generalization?
This discussion has been closed.
Re: I defy anyone to find the "insulting" part of my post.
I get what you are saying and never though it was a generalization.....
Just gotta remember there are a few here that will do anything to find something insulting in a post and all get all huffy & condensending (sp)
well, actually if you said "why don't teachers understand..." instead of "why doesn't SHE understand" then you were generalizing.
Who said teachers have it tougher than any other working women? A bunch of us listed reasons why teachers don't have it EASY, but I'm not sure anyone's point was that teachers have the most difficult occupation in the known universe, bar none. When you made comparisons between teaching and other professions that required "10 hours of work from home per week," people countered with the distinction between that and what teachers do...how could they not?
I stand by my statement that I have no right or desire to evaluate the difficulty or value of someone else's job when I've never attempted it. That's all.
Kiwi Fruit, 10.2.06 & Ellie Bug, 4.5.09
My blog: Bear With Us
Ideas on Teaching Your Toddler/Preschooler at Home
I'm sure that everyone is glad that you are back clarifying your post so that they continue rebuting and demeaning you.
Let's see how many times you can get called an idiot -- b/c, well, it takes a highly intelligent, mature person to call you an idiot.
FWIW, I think that your explanation here, while not necessarily treading lightly on already thin ice, is a good one. I also think, what you are failing to recognize (at least "verbally") is that teachers have REASON to complain about the hours they work. It's a justification of sorts --- for those people who DO believe that teachers don't work hard. Who DO believe that teachers don't put in long hours. You don't often hear "Man, doctors have it easy!" Yet, teachers are on the equivalent level for a # of reasons --- the main one being that they are responsible for others lives! THAT IS tough work --- and sadly, something that is not often recognized.
Actually that post was written to other teachers with toddlers. The poster was wondering how a teacher with small children manages to get their work done at night. The post was meant to elicit some suggestions, or (I daresay) some support. I don't think the poster was saying that other working mothers don't have the same problem - but wanted some help with her situation.
If you're not a teacher - why did you even read the post?
Actually, given the posters who you upset (myself excluded; i'm pretty temperamental and overly sensitive), I'm surprised you can't at least see that your OP was insulting and say, "wow, sorry I hit a nerve with so many with my post".
Whitedress? ?MrsJDD? ?Cubby? ?These are NOT posters who just look for somethign on this board to "get huffy" about---they are nice, kind people who rarely EVER get upset by what is posted and are never looking to start trouble. ?The fact that you upset them should give you some insight into how your post really sounded.?
So many teachers don't seem to get that that's just what it's like when you are a working women and they are no different.
THIS was insulting.
Huh. I'm not sure I really have anything worth adding...but I will say that I don't think my job is as demanding as a teacher's job. I don't take work home, I definitely don't contribute any of my own money to my work (no need), and I have a quieter, calmer day with breaks of my own making, and generally a 40 hour work week. I don't make a ton more than teachers in this area...but I make at least as much as them for honestly less demanding work. Of course I probably don't find my job as rewarding as a lot of teachers, either.
Teachers are not the only people who work hard or provide a valuable service, no. There is a lot of misunderstanding about what is involved in being a teacher, and less respect that there should be for the profession, though. You totally don't agree with that?
Teaching seems like it would be relentless with a lower margin for error (or at least a real potential to screw someone up...and I know cause I had some bad teachers growing up) than many other jobs.
I know treachers work very hard. So does everyone else. I just don't get why teachers seem to think they are the only ones.
THIS was also insulting.
Care to explain Linda, WHY this is insulting? Or do you want to tell me to butt out again?
Is it that teachers are above others working women and it's insulting to say they are no different?!?!?
Welome to the working world!
THIS was also insulting. Coupled with the general TONE of your post which can't be quoted, as well as the fact that you SAID it was flameful, which automatically puts the negative spin on it . . . that's a pretty big insult to throw at the people putting themselves out there to educate YOUR child.
Now I am going to go play with my son.
I get the part about what you said about the specific person, and I think in general your post was taken a little out of context, but I think its lines like this
"I just don't get why teachers think they are the only ones who do"
That are generalizing and people would see as insuling.
FWIW I"m not a teacher, but I'm a working mom and I think I could see what you're trying to say, but it just wasn't said very well. If it was a rant about a specific person then that would be one thing, but I think you are generalizing more than you might have realized.
Generalizing in general is a bad thing. I saw a few responses that I felt insinuated that everyone else OTHER than teachers who has to deal with crap is salaried and earns the money for it. Well, I am college educated, work in a respected field, but make LESS than the teachers at the local schools, and I work a lot of thankless hours too.
We all work hard (SAHM included!!) and we all deal with crap, not enough time, not enough sleep, and not enough money....and we all deserve the right to vent about it when we need to!
Good God Jodi, REALLY???? The idea that ALL teachers somehow lack the understanding of being a working woman???? (Hell, forget about how many MEN are in the field, but that's not worth going into because I know she wrote it based on THIS population). I do find that insulting.
I'm curious how you can use "flameful" in your post title and then turn around and defy anyone to find anything offensive about what you said--how can it be "flameful" and yet completely unoffensive at the same time?
I'm not foaming at the mouth or anything, and I'm not trying to antagonize you...I just think it's a little silly to knowingly start drama and then pretend you don't understand why it happened. I've seen far worse posts about teachers on these boards before--ones that really did make me want to jump through the screen and smack people--but just the fact that you see yourself in a position of judgement over whether teachers should be allowed to complain about (or, in this case, ask questions of colleagues regarding) the extra time they spend on their jobs is annoying. It might be hard to understand if no one ever sits around debating the importance of what YOU do and whether you're over- or underpaid or "have it easy," though.
Kiwi Fruit, 10.2.06 & Ellie Bug, 4.5.09
My blog: Bear With Us
Ideas on Teaching Your Toddler/Preschooler at Home
Tone is hard to read on a message board. ?I believe you when you say you were venting about one specific person but that's now how I first read your post. ??
Beautifully said!!!
Really? I didn't see any of the teachers state they had it "tougher than any other working women", but way to try to justify and defend the original post!
J2 11.17.08
nicely said cubby!
There are generalizations on both sides of this argument --- to say that ALL teachers put in a lot of work, money, effort, etc is a generalization. And a false one. And I can bet that many of the teachers that frequent this board know AT LEAST one teacher, near retirement, that just doesn't care anymore.
I know when I was in high school, there were at least 5 in the school that just wanted to be done but were waiting to hit the appropriate # of years. They weren't putting in the extra hours, money, effort, etc.
I saw this too, but couldn't quite put it into words....thanks, tigger.
That's totally true. There are definitely crappy members of every profession!
I think Flem is mostly reacting to what she thinks is a martyr complex among teachers, which can be annoying, I'm sure. I'm lucky to be in one of the highest-paying districts in a higher-paying state, so I don't have any reason to complain, but I know many teachers are paid FAR less than I am and I can see why they're bitter sometimes. If I didn't know what it was like, though, maybe I might just see it as whining. The post that inspired Flem's, though, wasn't even complaining and wasn't directed at non-teachers, so like someone said above, it's not like that OP was looking for sympathy or trying to say teachers work harder than everyone else.
My main beef is just that no one walks around saying, "Firefighters are so lucky--they get to just sit around watching movies and waiting for a fire to happen." And no, I'm not saying teachers = firefighters, but you can't evaluate an entire profession based on the "perks" of the job and then say they have no right to mention the drawbacks, which I think is what a lot of people do when it comes to teachers.
Kiwi Fruit, 10.2.06 & Ellie Bug, 4.5.09
My blog: Bear With Us
Ideas on Teaching Your Toddler/Preschooler at Home
cubby -- you are SO well spoken --- I'm envious!
Again, I agree with everything you said in your last post! I think teachers have EVERY right to vent about the hours they put in --- I'm also one that believes teachers have one of the toughest, if not THE toughest jobs in the world. I said before, they are similar to doctors in many ways --- the main one being they are responsible for others lives. The one main DIFFERENCE is that teachers are responsible for 20+ lives on a daily basis, all at the same time. Doctors, generally speaking (HA!) are responsible for one life at a time!
Aww, you're too nice. Really.
I'd be willing to bet that being a nurse/doctor is a lot harder and more stressful than teaching, and I know that medical professionals are (generally) more highly skilled than the average teacher because of the higher standards for the profession (a decade of school, a zillion years of training...), so I'm not sure I'll accept your kind comparison.
Kiwi Fruit, 10.2.06 & Ellie Bug, 4.5.09
My blog: Bear With Us
Ideas on Teaching Your Toddler/Preschooler at Home
Everything that Cubby has said thus far, I completely agree with. I vote her the Nestie/Bumpie Teacher spokesperson.
On another note, I think that a lot of this has to do with the fact that people in OTHER professions are always saying how easy teachers have it when in fact they have no idea because they have never been a teacher. As a teacher by trade myself (worked as one for 5 years), that was the one comment that I could just not stand. I never make uneducated comments about other professions because I have no idea what it is really like to be X. I just wish that other people would stop assuming that teachers "have it easy" since they really don't know. I think all anyone was trying to do here was to justify that its not easy.