Switching Schools? Longish. Thoughts?

NicoleWI · September 2014

We live in what is supposed to be a great school district. High test scores, well thought of, etc. We stayed in this district on purpose when we moved a year ago and always thought we'd send our kids to public school. I didn't even research other options b/c we are close to the elementary school and we had only heard good things. DD started kindergarten this year (there is no 4K in our district but she went to 3 half-days/week preschool elsewhere). We have an awesome bus schedule and are minutes from school.

I've really been struggling with my feelings about kindergarten and it has gotten to the point where I am actually considering switching DD to a different school. In a nutshell, the whole orientation process was a mess, communication was poor, and they had some bizarre teacher situations resulting in lots of upheaval and 2 new-to-the-school teachers/1 experienced for the 3 classes of kindergarten. There are many things I do not feel good about that are not in line with what I personally think kindergarten should be. They handled an injury DD got on day 3 of school poorly. I think there are safety issues at recess and during class transitions, from my experience as helper (only one day so far). I am not happy with the curriculum, which seems to involve a lot of worksheets and sitting time. They make it as "fun" as possible but it seems already they are teaching to the test and there is very little free play, no rest time, and a very short 20 minute lunch. It's not really the warm, creative, exploratory space I wanted for kindergarten. Additionally, DD's teacher has yet to impress me. She seems to value things like neat coloring and careful pasting while I value things like messy art projects and creative free play. Whenever I have seen her, she doesn't even get down on the kids' level to greet them or ask them anything personal. There are 21 kids in class, 2 with serious social/emotional issues of some sort, and an aide only in the afternoon. I have hoped I would start to feel better with each visit to the school, but it's not happening.

So, feeling crazy, I belatedly contacted our closest Catholic school, which has an award-winning kindergarten teacher. I talked to her today and I loved a lot of what she said about the structure of the day and her philosophies about kindergarten. I almost hoped NOT to like it as I was just trying to kind of put my mind at ease. Now I am touring there tomorrow. There are only 13 kids in the class.

I don't know how DD would feel about changing schools and we haven't brought this up to her at all. I really didn't think it was a real possibility that we'd switch but I'm starting to feel more like it might be. DD had a lot of trouble starting school but now enjoys her bus and has gotten to know the kids. She doesn't love it, but she's finally okay with going to school (I would love a kindergartener to come home excited).

We are Catholic but kind of crappy modern Catholics who don't go to mass every week, so the religious aspect is really not a driver for me. I'm more concerned with the overall learning environment and style of teaching. Negatives for me are that the school is almost TOO small (13 in a class compared to 3 classes with about 65 total kindergarteners), switching at this stage seems like a big potential hassle and mess, and of course the tuition ($3500). We would have to decide whether to keep her there for first grade or move back to public school. IF we ended up at the Catholic school for good it would cost us a fortune over the years for 4 kids. Pros are that DD would have a much richer kindergarten experience, a "healthier" one (better balance in the day; longer lunch; some quiet time), and a teacher with whom I already think I am much more on the same page with.

I'm not touring until tomorrow so maybe I won't like it anyway, but any thoughts or insights? Any experience with switching schools, especially if it just wasn't a good fit (i.e. not b/c of a move)?

NicoleWI · September 2014

THank you for the thoughts. All things to consider. I can't seem to edit the text for some reason, which is annoying. Basically, yes, I do have high expectations and am not sure if they are realistic. I went to publicc schools but they were really excellent. I understand that the nature of kindergarten has changed. That's exactly what I'm internally rebelling against. I have no concerns re: DD academically. I do have some baggage in a way from my own schooling as I was a very high achieving student, but feel I had way too much homework and "busywork" over the years and it was not helpful or beneficial. I hate to see that starting already. I disagree with the way kindie has changed and feel it's not in children's best interests, and I am debating whether it is worth it to "buy" the extras that I think are most important for DD (exploratory free play; creative activities). But I agree with you that the environment is toooo small and overly nurturing, vs. too large/not enough help/kids are totally on their own. We have two extremes and there doesn't seem to be a good middle ground. ANd also, I really am unsure about how DD would feel about moving, and unsure whether we would move her back to public next year or stay with private. The small school is an easy environment to move into, but she does have some "friends" already and may not want to start a new routine. I guess a lot of this boils down to getting a teacher who I don't particularly like or agree with thus far. DD will do "fine" either way. I just would like her to really enjoy kindergarten and have more opportunities for growth. Not sre doing worksheets all the time is doing that for her.

NicoleWI · September 2014

" I know that with schools (both private and public) are moving to common core, and that todays kindergarten is what was pretty much 1st grade for me. There is a lot to be expected of kids, and due to the standards teachers are required to meet, there is less time for the "free time.""

Yes, this is exactly my issue! I don't feel that today's trends are at all in the children's best interests and don't think they will likely lead to good results down the line. Our district is not on common core, though. Anyway, we'll see how the tour goes today and if I really love it, then we have decisions to make. If not for this year, maybe for the future.

I did have a long talk with the teacher about these issues already but I will likely try again if we are for sure leaving her at this school.

Spin313 · September 2014

I would be frustrated, but I'd have a meeting with the teacher to voice my concerns and see if anything could be done before considering something as drastic as switching schools.

Also - and this is VERY important - make sure your DD isn't hearing anything negative about the school/teacher from you. She likes the other kids and is okay with going to school, so don't color her opinion. Ask questions about her day, but keep school talk positive

neverblushed · September 2014

janineb said:

You mentioned there are 3 kindy classes. Have you looked into and met with the other teachers to see if they would be a better fit? Seems less extreme than changing schools midway.

Most public schools will not allow this kind of "teacher shopping."

I know that in my kids' schools, and in the school where I teach, we rarely make a switch like this.

Aimathy · September 2014

I think the struggle that you're having is the exact same struggle that I have had with my daughter. The changes you're seeing are definitely due to Common Core. I am also not against common standards, but I am extremely against the way in which these standards are being met in most schools today. They are not age appropriate, they are not developmentally appropriate and the use of standardized testing is appalling. Without getting on my soap box, I will say that this change is why you are seeing kindergarten classes that are more worried about curriculum, worksheets and sitting still. While Kindergarten does not need to be the free-play, crafts and snack place that it was 20 years ago, there still needs to be a better balance and more age appropriate learning taking place.

That being said, I am also an elementary school teacher. I am really unhappy with how the public schools are handling many things, academically, nowadays and was in a bind. My older two went to our (very highly rated) public school and excelled. One just started college and the other just started high school.

However, what my youngest is facing is completely different from what they faced. The public school Kindergartens are doing SEVEN standardized (computer based) tests in one year. They do keyboarding practice so that when the state tests occur, they will be able to type well. There are no centers, no free play time, a 10 minute recess and a 15 minute lunch (has anyone here ever tried to help 22 students open juice boxes/Gogurts/thermoses/milks etc in 15 mins, let alone eat!!). They never do art, there is no music class, science and social studies are skimmed over at a very bare minimum....because they will never be on "the test", so they are not important. The students with the lowest academic abilities are catered to, because their scores and results mean more (by "improving") than the the students that are already on grade level or above.

It's not what I wanted for my child. So although we can barely afford it, we placed her in Catholic school this year. As of now, they have everything in a Kindergarten that I am looking for. They have a strong academic program in ALL subjects, they incorporate art and music throughout the curriculum. There is free play, there are centers, they have recess, they have a normal lunch time. They put on performances during the year that stretch their imaginations and their creative sides. They cook, they color, they sing.

Do I want to pay this much extra on top of our (already crazy high taxes)? No. But I do it because right now it seems like the only option that is sane. I hope the public schools wake up soon. It's actually all quite sad.

Good luck with your decision. I think you know what choice I'd tell you to make!

Cnon · October 2014

Do I want to pay this much extra on top of our (already crazy high taxes)? No. But I do it because right now it seems like the only option that is sane. I hope the public schools wake up soon. It's actually all quite sad.

I'm not a parent, but this had to be one of the saddest posts, I've read in awhile.........

Cnon

emberlee3 · October 2014

MrsPM said:

My thoughts are that all public schools can't be lumped in the same category.
We are in a public district. Yes, they've adopted common core, but there is a strong focus on physical education, art, music, etc.
My son who is in kindergarten has centers, free play and a rest time. We are at an arts focus school so there is a dance and theatre class as well. I toured the other schools in the district and the extras are still in place.

ITA. And if you want public school, especially your child's school to change, speak up. Get involved.

My son goes to public K. He has daily Spanish, the specials rotate through art, music, and PE, and they learn science/social studies daily. He has 25 minutes for recess and 25 minutes for lunch.

crystal959 · October 2014

Your expectations may be a bit high. My kindergarden class was run by a very old woman who was not warm and fuzzy. We had to memorize all the states, capitals, and presidents. She sent us to a table segregated from the others that she called "the farm" when she thought we were behaving like "animals". This was in 1991. I don't think anyone is going to be 100% happy with teachers/policies/curriculum, but if your daughter is happy, thriving, and academically on track that is what is most important. I moved schools a lot growing up, and while it wasn't detrimental, I would avoid it if it isn't necessary.

neverblushed · October 2014

Aimathy said:

However, what my youngest is facing is completely different from what they faced. The public school Kindergartens are doing SEVEN standardized (computer based) tests in one year. They do keyboarding practice so that when the state tests occur, they will be able to type well. There are no centers, no free play time, a 10 minute recess and a 15 minute lunch (has anyone here ever tried to help 22 students open juice boxes/Gogurts/thermoses/milks etc in 15 mins, let alone eat!!). They never do art, there is no music class, science and social studies are skimmed over at a very bare minimum....because they will never be on "the test", so they are not important. The students with the lowest academic abilities are catered to, because their scores and results mean more (by "improving") than the the students that are already on grade level or above.

Wow - that's really different from what I observed with my kids. Like you, I'm a teacher and I have an older kid who went through elementary pre-common core. My son started K the year his school switched over to common core standards, so it's all he's ever known.

The adoption of CC caused no changes to our elementary school schedule. Kids still have 28 minute lunch, 28 minute recess, specials 3x a week. Kindergarten had a 20 minute rest/reading/snack time in the afternoon. FWIW, I still think 28 minutes for lunch in K is not enough, for the reasons you stated.

My son has actually spent less time taking standardized tests than my daughter did in elementary. They do take MAP-R 3x a year and now MAP-M at least once a year. That being said, I STILL feel there is too much time spent on testing and "how to bubble in an answer." But the preoccupation with testing seemed to come from a source other than CC. It was present in our public schools well before they adopted CC.

I would say that my son had about the same proportion of worksheets to other hands-on work that my daughter did in primary grades. What changes CC has brought to language arts, social studies, and science seemed to be that it provided more opportunities for interdisciplinary study.

The thing that changed the most after CC was the way math was taught. People gripe about CC math, because people always gripe about their kids' math instruction. I have been really happy with my son's math instruction. The focus has been on developing a solid understanding of math concepts, and he definitely has that. His number sense and his ability to do mental math is MUCH better than his sister's, despite the fact that on standardized tests she generally tested better than him at any given age. I love how logical it is, and how it emphasizes problem solving.

The one thing I really DISLIKE about CC is the stupid report card they use now in our schools. It was fine in primary grades, but I really hate it for intermediate. Kids get a P for proficient, an I for "in progress," and an N for "not yet demonstrated." Rarely, kids can get an ES for "exceeds standards." They are working hard not to let ES become an A and to really only use it for exceptional work. I'm fine with that. But the problem is that kids get Ps on almost every assignment. It's meaningless. I think that our new report card has robbed intermediate grades teachers of the ability to give a grade which says, "you've done a good job, but not a great job." In other words, there's nothing that's the equivalent of a B.

Clearly, the rollout of CC has been... uneven. A lot depends on the philosophy of the school district and of the principal. I have been involved in looking closely at the common core standards for secondary school in my work. I teach at a private school, so we're not bound to the standards, but we want to be aware of them, for sure. The standards themselves are pretty... standard. It's the implementation that's not good at some schools.

NicoleWI · October 2014

FYI, I am still struggling with this, but unless something drastic happens we are leaving DD at her current school. I love, love, love the Catholic school kindergarten, but I don't know that it's the best to have her in a such a small environment down the line (it's a very small school). We'll see how the rest of the year plays out for her. At this point, I don't think SHE would want to switch. She has a couple "friends" now at school and is finally used to the routine. I'm thinking we will ride this out.

We still have the private school option in the back of our minds and we will see how things are going when it's time for DS to start kindergarten in two years.

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