HR and PTO question

srcr2011 · September 2014

TL;DR - HR question about how and when to use PTO after FMLA.

Sorry if this would belong somewhere else, but I just need advice from any HR people.

I am a school nurse. This is my 3rd school year. I spoke with HR Friday to adjust my pay for FMLA. I get 12 weeks. If baby comes on the due date (which it may or may not), I will need to return to work in May for 3 weeks. Initially, the 15 days of FMLA were going to be paid because of PTO. **In a perfect world, this is my plan** I gave myself 4 days of PTO from now until the birth that I will allow myself to use only if needed. That will leave me with 15 days PTO left. I want to take the 12 weeks FMLA without pay/PTO. I want to use my 15 days PTO after the 12 week FMLA to extend my leave until the following school year.

I called HR today to see if that is possible and she said probably not. At the end of the year there are charts that need to be closed and "other stuff".

I rolled my eyes and thought 'Like what stuff? You're not a school nurse, you don't know how things work in the health offices'. I work my office, I know what needs to be done and it does NOT take 3 weeks to close off the charts, especially since it's EMR. Besides that, if it's such an issue, who the hell is going to run my office when I am on my leave? KWIM? The world is not going to stop spinning if I am gone 15 weeks instead of 12.

I know that PTO needs to be approved by my principal. I am a good employee, I schedule all my appts after 3, after work so I don't leave the campus without a nurse. I have had about 4 appts and 2 u/s so far and only one appt was in the morning. I don't want to sound like a brat. I know I have a job and responsibilities and I am thankful for it.

DH says they can't tell me how and when to use my PTO (during FMLA like HR had intended). I tell him no, but they can deny my request to use PTO to extend my leave, right?

ETA: HR said I did not need to use my PTO during FMLA. They just may not let me use it after my FMLA.

kefttsc · September 2014

Some employers DO state if you have to use any earned but unused PTO in conjunction with maternity leave. We encourage people to at least make a policy, but don't tell them what it should be.

My company's policy is that I do NOT have to use my PTO, although I probably will for pay sake since I am not eligible for FMLA.

If I were you, I would call your state's Wage and Hour line and ask your question. They will at least tell you what is required by law.

michelle142 · September 2014

Some companies require you to use any PTO you have acquired during your FMLA. Others don't require it, but you have to use it by a certain date. Is there anything in your handbook to indicate that you need to do that? Does your PTO "expire" on a certain date?

wendy46001 · September 2014

Not in the school system but in a standard hospital. I have to use all my PTO during my 12 weeks. I cannot take 12 weeks then use my PTO. So what HR is telling you might be correct.

Valentino2013 · September 2014

I'm sorry you are going through this. I am experiencing something similar but my job is not covered under FMLA. I was told that I can use my personal time as part of my leave, probably because my leave won't be paid to begin with. I don't have any advise but I would suggest you keep lots of notes about who you spoke to, when and what about. Also save all emails because you never know when you will have to show proof of a conversation or document the steps you took.

topolina1215 · September 2014

Check your employee handbook and, in particular, the FMLA policy. Usually there's a section in there as to whether the employer requires (or makes it optional) that you use any accrued, unused PTO concurrent with FMLA. Good luck!

wintersong139 · September 2014

srcr2011 said:

I want to use my 15 days PTO after the 12 week FMLA to extend my leave until the following school year. I called HR today to see if that is possible and she said probably not. At the end of the year there are charts that need to be closed and "other stuff". I know that PTO needs to be approved by my principal. I am a good employee, I schedule all my appts after 3, after work so I don't leave the campus without a nurse. I have had about 4 appts and 2 u/s so far and only one appt was in the morning. I don't want to sound like a brat. I know I have a job and responsibilities and I am thankful for it.

DH says they can't tell me how and when to use my PTO (during FMLA like HR had intended). I tell him no, but they can deny my request to use PTO to extend my leave, right?

ETA: HR said I did not need to use my PTO during FMLA. They just may not let me use it after my FMLA.

First, they CAN tell you when you CANNOT take PTO, so your H is not quite right when he says it in reverse.

If your school works like mine, PTO is approved by the principal, not HR. Who do you submit your PTO sheets to?

Why not just ask, "If I submit it, will it get approved?" They way she worded it, it sounded more like she was discouraging you rather than telling you it would not be allowed.

Also, have you considered trying to go part time after FMLA runs out? That way you can "close the charts" or whatever, and still have baby time.

cinderella4282 · September 2014

The maximum time you can be out at my company for the birth of a child is 12 weeks. You get paid for the first 6 weeks (natural childbirth) or 8 weeks (C-section). The remainder of the time you can either take unpaid or use PTO.

You can't though, take the 12 weeks of FMLA and then another 1-2 weeks additional with PTO. At least that's how my work does it. You care getting it pretty nice though that you get 12 weeks off, work for three, and then get another 3 months off. I'm personally jealous

MapleMomma · September 2014

I work in HR and they can require you to use PTO during FMLA time. Our policy is to require you to utilize PTO down to 40hrs (1wk) before your leave can be unpaid.

As far as the additional time off sounds to me like you should request a personal leave or leave extension and discuss this with your principal. They certainly don't HAVE to grant the extension, and at our place the HR director has to sign off on them.

Mrs. Zee · September 2014

Exactly what MapleMomma said is how my company works-the first 6 weeks are paid by the company, then the second 6 weeks I must use all of my pto down to the 40 hrs she referenced above. So second 6 weeks I will get 4 weeks paid by pto and be unpaid for 2. I also have a week lapse between my short term leave and when I stop working so I am trying to bank a week so that week can be paid as well.

umbcpt · September 2014

Also something to think about...I work for a school system too, and if I don't return to a paid status before the end of the year, I will have to pay cobra rates for my benefits all summer. Our benefits are only withdrawn during the school year, but we are covered all twelve months. I know I will go back before the end of the school year, because of the insurance thing alone. Good luck with this!!!

MapleMomma · September 2014

@KristinMTBell‌ brings up a very good point that some states have there own extension of FMLA which can throw in a few added protections.

srcr2011 · September 2014

Thank you all so much. You all made me think of things I had overlooked or not thought of.

ems0523 · September 2014

I would try and get your PTO approved from your due date or a week before to 3 weeks out then have your FMLA start. Maybe in reverse order you would have a better chance and if you started your PTO 1 week early maybe you'd only have to go back for 1 week before school let's out. Hopefully since your principal has to approve the PTO that would work. Either way, good luck!

Angeldcf · September 2014

I'm in a hospital. We are required to use up ALL of our PTO during FMLA before taking unpaid time.

MapleMomma · September 2014

ems0523 said:
I would try and get your PTO approved from your due date or a week before to 3 weeks out then have your FMLA start. Maybe in reverse order you would have a better chance and if you started your PTO 1 week early maybe you'd only have to go back for 1 week before school let's out. Hopefully since your principal has to approve the PTO that would work. Either way, good luck!

I can't speak for every where, but under federal FMLA this would not be allowed. The extension is for after, not before.

srcr2011 · September 2014

MapleMomma said:

I would try and get your PTO approved from your due date or a week before to 3 weeks out then have your FMLA start. Maybe in reverse order you would have a better chance and if you started your PTO 1 week early maybe you'd only have to go back for 1 week before school let's out. Hopefully since your principal has to approve the PTO that would work. Either way, good luck!
I can't speak for every where, but under federal FMLA this would not be allowed. The extension is for after, not before.

You're right Maple, FMLA kicks in right after the birth of the baby. I remember that from last time. Unless you have temporary disability, right?

With DS I didn't go back to work, so all this (going back after FMLA) is new to me.

MapleMomma · September 2014

@srcr2011‌ even if you have temporary disability, companies can count that as part of your FMLA time. Most do because otherwise the amount of time you could be off might become unmanageable from a company stand point.

I am with you though- I won't be going back, so soon all this knowledge will leak out and disappear forever.

srcr2011 · September 2014

MapleMomma said:

@srcr2011‌ even if you have temporary disability, companies can count that as part of your FMLA time. Most do because otherwise the amount of time you could be off might become unmanageable from a company stand point. I am with you though- I won't be going back, so soon all this knowledge will leak out and disappear forever.

Either we need to buy a house soon and get in debt or DH and I will have to sit down and have a talk and come to an agreement about me working.

wintersong139 · September 2014

sugahcookie01 said:

I'm a teacher and I was told by my HR that I'm required to use any pto during my FMLA time.

But that's just if you want it paid, right?
I could technically choose not to take it, but then I would be unpaid for the entire time before my short term disability kicks in.

MapleMomma · September 2014

wintersong139 said:

sugahcookie01 said:

I'm a teacher and I was told by my HR that I'm required to use any pto during my FMLA time.

But that's just if you want it paid, right?
I could technically choose not to take it, but then I would be unpaid for the entire time before my short term disability kicks in.

**quote fail**

No... She's saying she's required to, as in she doesn't have a choice. This is up to the discretion of the company and their policy.

toadandbug12 · September 2014

I have to use my accrued paid sick time as part of the 12 weeks off. In NJ, employers can require you to use any accrued paid time off as part of the 12 week maternity leave. Luckily I don't have to use vacation time, so I will have that when I get back.

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