How do you feel about fake sick days?

groovygrl · September 2014

I just curious... This is one of my pet peeves and I feel like it reflects peoples' work ethic. I do understand when ppl don't get much vacation time and need an extra day or a mental health day or whatever but even when i was in jobs with less vacation, I really have not ever 'planned' to take sick time to avoid taking vacation days, I plan my time accordingly.

One of my staff when I first started told me ahead she would be out on a Monday. Then on Friday she said dont forget, I am going to be sick on Monday...I was like what? Please do not tell me that, I cannot approve it. I suspect my predecessor let it happen all the time. Since then I am always a bit skeptical when she takes sick time which I feel badly about but this week I got a morning email two days before she has a planned vacation that she was going to be out sick. I am like 90% sure it is not a really sick day and she was prepping for her vacation esp since it fell on a day I was out and there were no meetings. She gets three weeks vacation and I recently worked hard to promote her and give her a raise so maybe that is part of why it bugs me but does anyone else get irritated w this?

Sorry for formatting am on mobile

bearfootz · September 2014

I feel like if I lie about being sick then I'll end up really getting sick. I'm a wuss, so I don't do it.

It seems like my coworkers use their sick days for hangovers. I don't really care what people do for the most part but hope they realize that if they abuse priveleges they usually end up being taken away.

QueSrah · September 2014

I've taken fake sick days as a last minute mental health day thing (but I rarely need to miss work for physical illness to begin with). I've only planned a sick day in advance if I'm getting outpatient surgery or something like that. Taking a "sick" day to pack for vacation is pretty questionable - I don't understand why you wouldn't just tack on an extra day of vacation leave and if you run out of leave take a mental health day at the end of the year. But I have more leave than I know what to do with.

Iblamethebeer · September 2014

I feel like this is a know your boss/know your office thing. I've certainly known people who are encouraged by their bosses to use sick days this way, and if that's the kind of boss she had before you, you may need to explain to her that the informal policy is changing.

We don't have sick days at my office, but the closest equivalent I can think of are WFH days. My bosses have explicitly told me that as long as my overall work production is good, I should feel free to take occasional WFH days during which I do a few hours of work and then catch up on life. If I had a new boss who was bothered by that, it might take me a few times to catch on that the expectation had changed.

Ago · September 2014

At my work, we accrue a lot more vacation than sick time during the year, so in my current position I don't really see this. I would be worried, if it was me taking the "sick" time, that karma would get me and I'd end up with being sick (or DD being sick) and no sick time left. I don't understand why this woman didn't just take another vacation day.

dashofreality · September 2014

I have always had straight PTO, no sick vs. vacation. Much better system.

Out of curiosity is it ok to take a sick day if you aren't sick but your kid is? What about scheduled doctor/dentist appointments? It also seems unfair that someone who happens to get sick a lot gets more paid time off. That might sound bad, but I guess I am thinking about those people that are 'sick' every time they have a runny nose. I realize that your issue really is that you don't fully trust your employee and feel you are being put in a bad position, which I would also be uncomfortable with.

VOR · September 2014

I go back and forth on this. This IS why it would just make more sense to have everything in one pot so that no one has to worry about it.

That being said - if someone takes a day here or there, I don't care. And in all honesty, I've taken a last minute sick day in order to go away for a long weekend, or what have you. BUT I don't tell my boss that. i just say "taking a sick day".

Clearly your employee feels that taking sick days to pad her vacation time is o.k., and as you said, this probably comes from her previous boss. And on that front... yeah, it would probably bother me too.

I want to say "talk to her and tell her that sick leave isn't meant to be used this way", but then what will that really do? It will probably just result in her still doing it but not telling you ahead of time.

If it's an actual PROBLEM, though, where she's taking so much time that it's affecting her job, then that may be a way to approach it. But if it's not and if she's getting her work done and is overall a good employee, I don't know that I'd make an issue out of it.

Slb22 · September 2014

I agree with pp that leave should be all lumped together to avoid this.

If it were a one off thing that rarely happened, I wouldn't care if my employees did that. If it happened regularly and affected others on the team or myself, then I would have an issue with it.

rockychryslerb2010 · September 2014

When I first started out, I think there were times I would take a sick day when I just needed a break and didn't have vacation. I was working 14+ hr days, and with limited vacation time, a sick day was necessary. I guess you could classify it as a 'mental health day', but I had no actual sickness. Actually, all of my 'sick days' before having kids were mental health days!

Since advancing and getting more time off each year, I rarely take sick days. Maybe 1-2 a year. Luckily, I have plenty of vacation that doesn't roll over and with a nanny, when E is sick, I can still work.

I question if my employees start taking a lot of sick days, or there is a pattern - someone would always take Fridays off or make a three day weekend a four day weekend, etc. But I've not had a problem with it since I started managing.

minirella · September 2014

Depends on the work environment. If someone has to work in your place (for example, someone gets called in on their off day because you called in sick), then I don't agree with it. But if it is like an environment like I'm at now, where the work just sits on my desk until I get back, then I'm okay with it.

I have been scheduled to take Friday morning off (sick) for weeks. I have a doctor appointment. My admin assistant knows about it. It isn't fake, it is just that I take sick leave for doctor appointments and they are scheduled in advance.

Leap08 · September 2014

We don't have designated sick days. We have Time off Paid (TOP). TOP is used for sick time, sick kids, vacation time, mental health time, etc... I like this so much more than having sick days and vacation days. My boss never questions why I am taking a day off.

sweetsunnyc · September 2014

Our PTO is not divided in to sick or vacation- just 160 hours. I do work in a company where they encourage us to take time off to volunteer in our kids school, mental health days ect, but they also expect a lot out of our job performance. As long as numbers and students needs are being met, it's usually fine. I agree with PP's- know your work environment. In my last job I worked with a girl that would always call in "sick" on Mondays, but post pictures of herself taking shots and going to clubs all weekend. And she was friends with her supervisors and friends on facebook. Not a real smart gal- she was let go.

ASmallWonder · September 2014

I've planned a sick day here or there in the past but it was very rare. Now, I do use my "absence pay" for me being sick, the kids being sick and pre-planned doctor/dentist visits. When I tell people I'm going to be out, that's all I tell them and then when I fill in my timecard I just choose the hours from the bucket I want it drawn from. I don't think anyone cares.

Pips09 · September 2014

In general, it's an office culture type thing. I'd have a problem with the way your employee in the example is handling it.

Lumping all PTO in one category poses other problems, as well. Specifically, people tend to think of it as all vacation time, and they don't want to use it for illness, so they come into the office when they are sick, which I have a problem with. There's no "right" way to handle it, you just need employees who can be responsible with their time off and getting their work done.

bearfootz · September 2014

We don't have an allotted amount of sick days. It used to be if you were sick you were sick, and your manager was to keep an eye on things to avoid abuse. Now if we are "sick" then we have to call an insurance line to report our illness so that it can be tracked in case it turns into a short term disability claim - any abscence over three days in a row requires a doctor's note.

If you are out because of a sick kid you are technically supposed to burn a vacation day, but some managers will allow you to work from home. It really varies depending on your department and there is no "work from home" policy in place.

MirandaHobbes · September 2014

I work for the government and I have oodles of sick leave (we can accrue indefinitely so I have like 4 months stored up, even after taking a 3 month maternity leave 6 years ago). It's actually quite annoying, because our culture is that you shouldn't actually use said sick leave. We only get 25% of it paid out upon retirement, so it usually goes to waste. There's an urban legend of someone who feigned an illness prior to retirement so he could use up his sick leave, but I truly doubt it. Most of us doubt our generous sick leave policy will stay in place much longer, so people have been trying to be more liberal about actually using it. For example, if I have an eye appointment at 3 pm that is an hour long I'll probably just take 2 hours of sick and leave for the day. I'm a rebel like that.

Most people in my office use the majority of their sick leave for doctor's appointments. Our state law doesn't mandate sick leave, but if you offer it, you must allow it's use for doctor's appts for yourself, kids, parents, and other extended family (there's a list). It's a generous policy. Lots of the Boomers in my office are out all the time caring for their elderly parents. My generation is out all the time caring for our small children's various illnesses. But for ourselves- the culture is, get your butt to work, even if you're sick, with the exception of pink eye since it is so contagious. We once had an attorney show up and quarantine herself in her office with a sign on the door because she had pneumonia. In 10 years working for the government I bet I've taken an actual "sick day" for myself 3-4 times, and it was stomach flu or food poisoning each time. I do use it freely for doctor's appointments for myself, kid, and sometimes spouse (as is allowed). My kid has ASD so I'm out quite a bit for appointments. I'm of course expected to keep up with my work.

To the PP who mentioned that people who get sick more shouldn't get more paid leave- I agree to the situation you noted, that some people might use it for a "runny nose" while others wait for a terminal illness. In our office that definitely isn't the case. And it's a slippery slope if you think I'm getting unfair paid leave to care for a kid with special needs.

ccam · September 2014

Like some PP's said, I think it depends on the atmosphere within the office. People call in here and give the excuse of "I need a mental health day" and no one even questions it. Personally, if it's not affecting my work in any way, I don't really care what other people do!

itsmevkb · September 2014

If it's designated as sick time then I have issues with people calling in sick when they aren't.

I've worked in places where it was all one big pot and noticed a lot of people would use that all up and then still end up calling in sick. Maybe I just always work with people who can't seem to save up anything or plan ahead.

groovygrl · September 2014

Shoot i was trying to post this hours ago but my service was bad. Our office defines care of immediate family as sick time so we never have an issue w that.
To clarify after I said something the first time she never told me about planned sick time again I just suspect it is...
Also for the all one pot thing, many places I have worked give more sick time than vacation when they are separated and let you carry it over bc the point is that of you get really ill or have surgery you will have enough time to cover it. Lumping into one pot would decrease the total time and therefore be a detriment to those who need a decent chunk for true health related issues IMO

[Deleted User] · September 2014

I admittedly skimmed but I will often schedule several appointments one the same day and take the whole day as sick. It uses less time than an appointment here and there.

Or I will take the entire planned sick day if I am having a procedure.

There are a variety of legitimate reasons to have a planned sick day. Though I am fine using leave time however one sees fit to use it.

groovygrl · September 2014

MarlaSinger& said:
I admittedly skimmed but I will often schedule several appointments one the same day and take the whole day as sick. It uses less time than an appointment here and there.
Or I will take the entire planned sick day if I am having a procedure.
There are a variety of legitimate reasons to have a planned sick day. Though I am fine using leave time however one sees fit to use it.

Well sure those are legitimate I meant planning to take a sick day ahead of time bc you don't have any vacation left or don't want to use it so you really aren't sick or doing anything health related.

amieeyoung · September 2014

I'm not looking at is as a boss so my perspective is different, but it's her days so as long as she isn't making it harder for other ppl in the office let her use them. I mean otherwise you'd have to prove she isn't sick... now that being said it is frowned upon at my job to use a SL day near a Holiday or planned vacation, but truthfully there has been a time or two it was a legit reason (only day I could get an appt., son got sick etc). Sounds like she is just using it, but IDK what are you going to do cause a scene about it?

You could do something to stop it from happening in the future, though. You could have a meeting about leave time with everyone and go over expectations about sick leave vs. vacation leave and when it is appropriate to take each one, etc.? That way you aren't singling one person out and are setting expectations for everyone. Then if you have a problem later you can refer to the meeting.

DiveFrog · September 2014

I work for a company that allows unlimited sick/personal time, upon managers approval. Honestly, it is the best possible policy. It is rarely abused, and when it is, it is handled by the person's manager. Employees really appreciate it, and don't feel like we have to "use it or lose it"

I have used sick/personal time for me being sick, DD being sick, personal mental health days, personal Dr. appointments, DD Dr. appointments, being with DH for surgery and his immediate recovery, and even other personal situations that were not health related. Now a lot of this time, it was just that, time, not an entire day. I left an hour or two early, or came in an hour or two late. I often work at least a few hours when I am home sick, and even more if it is DD that is sick.

Bottom line is as others have stated. My management and my company pay me to get a certain amount of work done/covered, as long as I am doing that they don't police how use my time.

jenn43 · September 2014

K3am said:

I'm in the camp of @iblamethebeer.. It varies with your office, your boss, etc. With my prior boss, I never lied. If I was taking a mental health day, when I called in, I would simply say "I'm taking a sick day".. when I was really sick, I'd let them know I was sick. With my current boss, I would never let her know in advance, and I would never hint that it was anything other than being sick.

Although lately, between DD really being sick, and me really being sick because I caught what DD did, I haven't had any real occasion to do it lately.

Personally, I think all of our time off should be lumped together as PTO. I prefer to take sick vs vacation since sick time doesn't pay out if you quit, and sick time has no cap - if I'm saving up for a vacation, I can only accrue so many days per year.. I probably want as many as possible, so marking a day as sick vs. vacation helps out there.

This is how our office works. You get so much PTO to use for whatever you want.

groovygrl · September 2014

Well, yes, as her manager when she calls out I have to cover her regular duties which can be less than convenient esp if she is going to be out for a week a few days later, so it does affect me. Invariably something comes up that I end up having to handle on days she is out. She is a good worker otherwise so I am not going to play 'truth policy' (?wth is that, expecting ppl to tell you the truth at work?) or confront her or anything of the sort, my question was just whether stuff like this bugged other ppl. It just is dishonest to me, that's all.

fancynewbeesly · September 2014

I teach in a school district---we get 10 sick days off a year (they can roll over) and 3 personal. The sick days are ONLY for you. (I found this out when I couldn't use any of them for my daughter's leukemia). They are for you and your doctors appointments. Now, if you use a sick day here and there most of the people won't say anything. But after 2 consecutive ones they have to ask for a note.

The three personal days are used anyway you see to use them--they can't be used next to a holiday/school break though. The problem is most people use the personal days for their kids being sick. I have to use one if I want to take the second day of Rosh Hashanah off---so three don't go very far.

marijaa333 · September 2014

In my office, different managers have different policies. My own boss really doesn't care, within reason, when we are in the office and when we are not, as long as the work gets done; another manager does and frequently checks up on people when they are sick.

As a supervisor, I am completely flexible - as long as my staff show up for meetings, they could work from the beach as far as i'm concerned, however, if they are not performing well, I will give them three strikes before letting them go. I'm very frank and consistent from the beginning and I like to think that I've ended up managing a fantastic little team as a result of that.

The key is to communicate to your staff what your expectations are; perhaps your employee schedules appointments and thus knows when her sick days will come up; perhaps not. It's up to you to have a heart-to-heart and clarify both of your expectations as well as set out some guidance for the future. If she is a good employee, I would be careful not to assume too much and especially not to let any resentment start to build on those assumptions.

NADA-H · September 2014

Where i work on this side if the world our company requests a doctor's note for you to get a paid sick leave. If u dont submit the note then its considered leave without pay. In the previous place where i worked we had to submit a note only if we took two consequtive sick days or more and i would only take a day off when i was burnt out or super tired. In both ppaces though if u take a sick leave right before the weekend it counts as if u took 3 days off and 3 days r deducted out of ur total sick leave balance

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