How do you know if sleep training isn't working?

LittleBabyG2013 · August 2014

Lo use to sleep with me and nurse to sleep. She's in her crib now.. We have been doing a mild CIO since Saturday. She falls asleep pretty fast at first but still wakes up mult times a night (5-6) sometimes when she wakes up it takes my husband awhile to get her back to sleep.
I've picked 6hrs as a time to feed her and then 4hrs after that.
I don't know why she's still waking up Soo much. Maybe CIO isn't working?
Any suggestions ? Maybe it will take longer?

MangoMama82 · August 2014

Of course every baby is different, so take this with a grain of salt. The key is consistency. If you feel like you've been consistent EVERY night then research and try another method. Usually if you are sticking stringently to a plan it shouldn't take more than a few days. My son wasn't able to put himself back to sleep, so with us it took about 2 nights. Naps were another story. I used a chart, a stop watch, and before I began I had contingency plans if something didn't go according to the original plan. I felt super prepared, and didn't waver from what I read about. I think that's why it worked well for us. I was very strictly following a method I felt comfortable with. And even though it only took 2 nights I continued to chart his sleep for a couple months after, just to make sure I was ready if he back-slid. We've said it before around here, but it's worth repeating, being inconsistent will be traumatic for you and baby. And really a waste of time.

TREDgirl · August 2014

I agree with Mango as well. Consistency!

Also for us we had to change their daytime feeding schedule so that they got the calories needed during the day and didn't need any nighttime feedings. It took us about 5 nights total for both of them to STTN. I put them to bed at 7 and closed the door until 6:30 the next day. The longest either cried for was like 15 minutes. For us the weekends are no different, we keep the same schedule.

LittleBabyG2013 · August 2014

Yeah she gets really distracted during the day..
But I'm going back to work on Monday and she still won't take a bottle. My husband will be home with her for 6weeks.
She takes a sippy cup with water. But when I put milk in it she just let's it fall out of her. I don't know what to do.

I'm worried about her.. She's small babes, affraid she's going to LOs weight if she won't take the milk from her dad.

We have been consistent with the sleep training. Maybe we will try for a few more days. Could it be harder her because we coslept?

ncase2 · August 2014

As per PPs, consistency is key. I highly recommend reading the Ferber book, it explains a lot. My DS did the same as your DD - he would go to sleep easily, but would wake up several times at night. The reason behind this is you are nursing her to sleep - so when she wakes up in the middle of the night, she wants / needs to nurse to get back to sleep. She has associated nursing with falling asleep, and that's why your poor DH can't get her to go back to sleep - he doesn't have the right "equipment"

What we did was I still nursed DS to sleep, but would mildly wake him up before setting him in his crib, so that he had to get used to falling asleep without nursing. Then we did mild CIO for MOTN wakings, but I still nursed as needed - just always made sure to mildly wake him before putting him in his crib. It doesn't have anything to do with co-sleeping, we did that and while it's just another adjustment they have to make (I wouldn't recommend moving to a crib and CIO at the same time, that's a lot of adjusting for baby at once), it shouldn't impair sleep training. PM me if you have any other questions!

sleepy33 · August 2014

I think you are trying to do a lot of things at once, so that makes it hard to pinpoint how to solve the issue. You are trying to simultaneously:

- stop co-sleeping
- stop or dramatically reduce night-time feedings
- sleep training
- add bottle feeding

Now, IDK much about Ferber/CIO, admittedly, but I do know it's real hard to figure out how to solve a problem when you change multiple variables at once. Therefore, logically, if she's used to eating all night long and you don't know how much she's eaten during the day, it seems like CIO might have a hard time working b/c you don't know if she's legitimately hungry or not.

I know your returning to work makes it seem like there is a big looming deadline, but the only thing that really must impact immediately is the bottle feeding. I would take more time to resolve each of these issues separately in the time needed to address them, even if that means you have some nights of short sleep after you've gone back to work.

kimbo1216 · August 2014

Honestly, if "mild CIO" isn't working, I'd try full-on Ferber before deciding to give up. But I'm a strong believer in sleep training. So mine may not be the opinion you want.

taylormarie923 · August 2014

Up the food intake during the day before taking your sleep training to the next level. It makes my heart hurt to think of a hungry baby crying alone in a new, scary place.

I recommend the book "The Baby Whisperer Solves All Your Problems".

egsquared · August 2014

I've been following your posts because we're sort of in the same situation. This is my second week back at work; DS started daycare. We nurse to sleep, co-sleep and DS nurses multiple times during the night.

The only thing we've tackled so far is trying to get DS to drink breastmilk from something other than the boob. It's not even going that well - we send sippys and frozen milk to daycare and the most he's drank during the 10 hours he's there is 6oz. He does eat solids 2+ times a day there too, so he's not starving....

Anyway, I know you don't want to go backwards on any progress you've made, but maybe changing one thing at a time like @sleepy33‌ said would work better? We're going to keep co-sleeping and dealing with the night wakings until DS is more used to going to daycare. Then we'll address each of those issues separately. The nursing to sleep will probably be the last thing we get rid of. My DD nursed to sleep until she was almost 2 and did fine at daycare during all that time.

I know it's all so stressful. Going back to work is such a huge transition for LO and for you. We're definitely not in the swing of it yet. Good luck!!!

LittleBabyG2013 · August 2014

ncase2 said:
As per PPs, consistency is key. I highly recommend reading the Ferber book, it explains a lot. My DS did the same as your DD - he would go to sleep easily, but would wake up several times at night. The reason behind this is you are nursing her to sleep - so when she wakes up in the middle of the night, she wants / needs to nurse to get back to sleep. She has associated nursing with falling asleep, and that's why your poor DH can't get her to go back to sleep - he doesn't have the right "equipment"
What we did was I still nursed DS to sleep, but would mildly wake him up before setting him in his crib, so that he had to get used to falling asleep without nursing. Then we did mild CIO for MOTN wakings, but I still nursed as needed - just always made sure to mildly wake him before putting him in his crib. It doesn't have anything to do with co-sleeping, we did that and while it's just another adjustment they have to make (I wouldn't recommend moving to a crib and CIO at the same time, that's a lot of adjusting for baby at once), it shouldn't impair sleep training. PM me if you have any other questions!

I don't nurse her to sleep anymore.. I nurse her before bed then hubby changes her diaper and puts into her pjs. Then they and read a story in the rocking chair before he puts her in the crib. He then sings her to sleep, he doesn't leave her til she falls asleep. I do the same in the night nurse her then give her to hubby, where he sings again. I can't just leave her alone to cry.

We left the crib in our room until she gets use to it, then once she's good in her crib we will move it to her room.

LittleBabyG2013 · August 2014

taylormarie923 said:
Up the food intake during the day before taking your sleep training to the next level. It makes my heart hurt to think of a hungry baby crying alone in a new, scary place.

I recommend the book "The Baby Whisperer Solves All Your Problems".

She eats a lot of solids during the day but when it comes to nursing she's so distracted. Even in a quiet room.

taylormarie923 · August 2014

LittleBabyG2013 said:

ncase2 said:
As per PPs, consistency is key. I highly recommend reading the Ferber book, it explains a lot. My DS did the same as your DD - he would go to sleep easily, but would wake up several times at night. The reason behind this is you are nursing her to sleep - so when she wakes up in the middle of the night, she wants / needs to nurse to get back to sleep. She has associated nursing with falling asleep, and that's why your poor DH can't get her to go back to sleep - he doesn't have the right "equipment"
What we did was I still nursed DS to sleep, but would mildly wake him up before setting him in his crib, so that he had to get used to falling asleep without nursing. Then we did mild CIO for MOTN wakings, but I still nursed as needed - just always made sure to mildly wake him before putting him in his crib. It doesn't have anything to do with co-sleeping, we did that and while it's just another adjustment they have to make (I wouldn't recommend moving to a crib and CIO at the same time, that's a lot of adjusting for baby at once), it shouldn't impair sleep training. PM me if you have any other questions!
I don't nurse her to sleep anymore.. I nurse her before bed then hubby changes her diaper and puts into her pjs. Then they and read a story in the rocking chair before he puts her in the crib. He then sings her to sleep, he doesn't leave her til she falls asleep. I do the same in the night nurse her then give her to hubby, where he sings again. I can't just leave her alone to cry.

We left the crib in our room until she gets use to it, then once she's good in her crib we will move it to her room.

Sounds like you are off to a good start. Not at all what I was imagining! Hopefully with more time and consistency she will be more comfortable and better at putting herself to sleep. Every little change will cause a slight regression. My baby is a rock star when it comes to going to sleep after a couple months of consistent work, but I took him on vacation where he was in a new crib in a new room and we basically had to start from scratch.

I'm not sure what to suggest for the distracted eating, hopefully some other mamas have good tips.

psychdoc12 · August 2014

I agree with @sleepy33, too many variables. I think a major issue you may face is that a baby can't sleep through the night unless they get enough calories during the day (unless they learn to ignore hunger, I guess, but that is not good) and you don't even know if your baby is going to take in sufficient calories during the day once you go to work. Honestly, if she continues to refuse milk during the day, she's probably going to need to reverse cycle and nurse a bunch at night to get the calories she needs. So I wouldn't sleep train without sorting out the feeding first. The nice thing about bottle feeding, once she gets it down, is that you will know how many ounces she gets and have a decent idea about whether she's been sufficiently fed to sleep through the night. Just my two cents anyway.

LittleBabyG2013 · August 2014

I fed her last night every 4 hrs instead of 6 and she seemed to sleep better. She also went back into her crib without crying.

sleepy33 · August 2014

LittleBabyG2013 said:

I fed her last night every 4 hrs instead of 6 and she seemed to sleep better. She also went back into her crib without crying.

That is great! I would try to feed her as much as possible during the day, and hopefully you can eventually lengthen the time she can go at night. I also try to give Cam some protein with every meal throughout the day, as fruits and veggies don't have much in them. Seems to help him stay fuller longer, and he's been drinking a lot less formula since I started that. Yogurt has a ton of protein!

ballygirl · August 2014

jgslr said:
Eh, I think some babies are just shitty sleepers. Jbbb I did a mild cio at 6mo and it worked great for 3 months, but once she turned 9 mo and can sit/stand it stopped working no matter how consistent we were. There are babies who are great sleepers with no training whatsoever. Oh and that drowsy but awake, dd said fuck that noise, it never ever worked for us.

Eta: just like some adults are heavy sleepers, some are light/ bad sleepers I think babies vary just like adults do.

My babies are deft shitty sleepers. The same thing happened with us. Ferber worked awesomely for 3 months and the past few weeks gave been a bit of a disaster - not as bad as it was 4 months ago, but definitely not great.

LittleBabyG2013 · August 2014

sleepy33 said:

LittleBabyG2013 said:

I fed her last night every 4 hrs instead of 6 and she seemed to sleep better. She also went back into her crib without crying.

That is great! I would try to feed her as much as possible during the day, and hopefully you can eventually lengthen the time she can go at night. I also try to give Cam some protein with every meal throughout the day, as fruits and veggies don't have much in them. Seems to help him stay fuller longer, and he's been drinking a lot less formula since I started that. Yogurt has a ton of protein!

Because I'm going back to work n she's still not taking a bottle this will be hard.
I'm hoping she will just take it. She's gets lots of regular food though which includes ton of protein

vargasgurl · August 2014

I have the same problem DD wants all the calories at night! I try to feed her more during the day but sometimes she is just not interested

She has been waking up more often (i thought it was teething ) but this week no teething issues just sleep issues . I have been CIO w her and if she wakes up I pick her up rock her a little (she doesn't like it because she wants to nurse) once she calms down I put her back in her crib and give her , her lovey and she goes back to sleep. I have been feeding her when it's her time to eat. She deft nurses out of habit.

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