Need help on ending bedsharing, weaning and toilet training overnight.

KateLouise · August 2014

So I have a few different issues that I'd like AP help or thoughts on.

I'll start with the 2 1/2 yr old. I'm still breastfeeding. She'd been doing last thing at night and first thing in the morning for a while, but "first thing in the morning" can start at 3am and be off and on until she's ready to get up. On a good night she has a good drink around 530-6am before getting up. However, if I have a sleep in she will return to my bed regularly to have a slurp until I get up.

She has slept in my bed since birth. I don't really have an issue with her in my bed, but DH hates it and will go and sleep in her bed. So I miss him.

So we've pretty much gotten rid of the evening feed. I just started saying no and offering a cup of milk, and now she hasn't asked for a couple of night. I want to wean in general because I just want my sleep and I think it will help get her out of my bed, but I don't want it to be stressful for her.

Do I just wait out the morning feed (my eldest just grew out of it one day) or should I start setting boundaries eg, not before a particular time? It's hard to do the boundary thing when she just pulls up my top and helps herself.

Last night we put her in her own bed, and she slept until 330am. Then I got into bed with her, and she slept until 6ish when she had a drink fo milk. So I count this as a highly successful night. Do I just continue down this path in the hopes it gets better and better, or should I start leaving her bed after she's asleep? (when I've done this before she's kept waking every 30 - 60minutes looking for me)

Other issue is my 4 1/2 yr old. Shes been toilet trained since she was 2. It was easy and took 3 days. She has never been dry at night. I don't know whether to just wait it out, or force the issue ie take her out of nappies, and deal with wet beds until she "gets it" (which is what my nurse suggested) Thoughts?

Sorry that was so long.

Thanks

Emerald27 · August 2014

When I weaned DS, I followed a modified "don't offer, don't refuse" plan in which I never offered, and if DS asked to nurse, as long as it was convenient, I tried to never refuse him. However, I would limit each session to about 10 seconds (or as long as I could stand it - I'm pregnant and nursing quickly became no bueno for me). Limiting his time at the breast slowly reduced the amount of asking he did. He now asks to nurse a couple times a week, and I almost always let him latch for a few seconds, but that's it.

At night, I would let him nurse very briefly and then tell him the bees (what we call breasts) were tired and had gone to sleep, so we could snuggle instead. If he objected very strongly, I would offer the other side briefly and then do the same thing. Then that was it, and we would snuggle to sleep. I did this for night wakings too, and eventually he accepted just snuggles for going back to sleep.

Remember as you're weaning to make time for extra snuggles. LOTS of extra closeness and snuggles. It's all too easy to fear them asking to nurse when they get close, and to want to distance your body from LO to make weaning easier, but they NEED that extra closeness, and to learn alternate ways of giving and receiving affection, so it's crucial to maintain the closeness of snuggles.

As for ending bedsharing, you could do that as part of weaning, or you could wean first and then end the bedsharing. She will likely be more inclined to agree to sleep on her own if breastfeeding is no longer an option in your bed.

I have no idea about potty training your older child because we've just begun the potty training thing with DS. It's going fine but I have no idea whether he would wet the bed or wake to go to the potty overnight. It'll be some time before we ditch the bedtime (and naptime too) diapers.

neverblushed · August 2014

I don't have a ton of advice on the am nursing, but one thing that might help you push your DD to sleep later and, perhaps, drop the morning nursing is to tell her there's no "morning milk" until it's light outside. That may get you a few more hours of sleep. And eventually, you might be able to drop the morning nursing by getting her out of bed at that time and offering her a cup of milk. If she recognizes numbers, you could use a digital clock and tell her no milk until you see a 6 or a 7 on the clock, or whatever time works for you.

However, I have extensive experience with your other issue of nighttime diapers. My son took a LOOONNG time to become dry at night. When he was newly day trained, I suspected from the fullness of his diapers on some mornings that he was sometimes peeing 2x during the night: once in the middle of the night and sometimes again closer to (or even maybe after?) wake up time, even though he was potty trained. I suspected that he was taking advantage of wearing a diaper or pull-up at night because he could. When I got a waterproof mattress cover and put him in underwear at night, it did cut down on that early morning wetting. He would get up in the morning and go to the bathroom.

However, he also still continued to occasionally wet the bed in the middle of the night for several years, which was a different issue, and was caused by how soundly he sleeps. He seems to have outgrown that finally, as he's had only one accident in the last year. If it turns out that putting your DD in underwear doesn't solve (or mostly solve) the problem, and you want advice about dealing with bed-wetting in a supportive and AP-friendly manner, write back and I'll happily share my tips.

Emerald27 · August 2014

ClaryPax said:
@neverblushed I would love to hear your tips on bed wetting. DS is pretty good, but he has accidents occasionally maybe about once a month. We tried getting rid of the little potty in his room, but then he had an accident every night, so we put it back in, and he is back to the once a month frequency. I would still rather wash sheets then deal with diapers though.

I've heard that some parents will set an alarm and go wake their child in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom, preempting the accident. Not sure if that would help if it's just once a month. Does he keep water by the bed? Is there any consistent factor that's the same on the nights he has accidents, so you can tell when it might happen?

neverblushed · August 2014

Hi ClaryPax! I'm happy to share my tale.

Bedwetting is a drag for both the child and the parent, but there was a time when I'd have been very happy if my son ONLY had an accident once a month or so! And putting a little potty in the room wouldn't have helped my guy. My DS just slept too soundly to feel the urge and wake up.

In your case, I would definitely keep the little potty in the room if that means the difference between your son getting up to pee and just peeing in bed. But in the meantime, here are some other techniques that worked for me, if you want to encourage him to make the little potty a plan of last resort so that you can eventually get rid of it.

--I never scolded my son. My H wet the bed when he was a kid, and his family was not supportive. It was humiliating and frustrating for him to be repeatedly punished for something he couldn't control. The three of us talked openly about how peeing while you're asleep happens to lots of kids, how Dad had also gone through this, and that we knew he would eventually grow out of it. We tried to normalize it as much as possible.

--After one failed attempt, I did not try to "night train" him. A stupid pediatrician recommended I wake him up to pee when I went to bed. Well, his whole problem is caused by him sleeping very soundly. Picture me holding a fully-pajama'd, 45 pound, sleeping 5 year old dangling by his armpits over the toilet, snoozing away, and you'll understand why I abandoned "night training." I couldn't get him to wake up enough to pee.

--Instead, I coached my son to take his time and let ALL the pee out. If a child is used to holding it (as little boys sometimes do when they're too busy to stop and pee) their bodies don't always recognize when the bladder is really truly empty because just letting the pressure off a bit can give them the feeling of relief without fully emptying.

--I never limited evening fluids, because my son drinks a LOT of water, and I wanted him to continue the habit of staying hydrated. He feels thirst acutely, and I didn't want him to be uncomfortable. You can achieve nighttime dryness without limiting fluids!

--I did have him go to the bathroom at the start of the bedtime routine and again right before lights out. Even when the whole bedtime routine was only about 15 minutes long, this strategy made the most difference, and he still follows this protocol on his own.

--I did have him help take responsibility for the laundry, and I praised him for being open about it when he did wet the bed. (When he was about 5 or 6, he started to become embarrassed and would not mention it if he had an accident. I had to work hard not to get frustrated with him when I would go in at night and find that his wet bedding had sat there all day!) I did not approach this in a punitive way at all. In fact, helping with the laundry actually gave him a way to deal with this that was positive. It became something in this whole mess that he COULD control.

--I got 2 waterproof mattress pads and layered the bedding: pad, fitted sheet, pad, fitted sheet, top sheet, blanket. When he wet the first time, I could just strip off the top layer instead of moving all the stuffed animals and changing the entire bed.

--I got a separate, plastic laundry hamper for wet sheets, underwear, and pjs. I washed that laundry separately from regular laundry, because eventually there's enough urine in the laundry to make the rest of the clothes dirty instead of clean.

--To get 100% of the urine smell out of clothes without spending a fortune in laundry additives, I would run the sheets and pjs through a short cycle in cold, then wash them in hot with plenty of detergent. I also occasionally used a dollop of Febreeze laundry additive, if things were really smelly.

--My son sleeps with a LOT of stuffed animals, and sometimes they would wind up below the "high tide line." Nothing is grosser than an old "lovey" that's been peed on and barfed on multiple times. (In our house, this lovey is actually named "Stinky Kitty" now.) I found that a spritz of Febreeze and a day sitting outside in the sun works wonders for these critters, for pillows, and even for the mattress, should your waterproof pads fail you.

--I was fortunate enough that my son's two best friends have awesome moms. When it was time for sleepovers, I was able to tell them about this without worrying. We also discussed getting the pull-ups that look like boxer briefs, but my son really resisted this. I felt it was important to let him decide. He did have an accident at a sleepover one time, but he dealt with it and did not die of embarrassment.

At my kids' pediatric practice, we see a very wise nurse practitioner, who is considered the practice's expert on boy potty training. She assured me that when my son turned 6 it would start to get better, and that it would end sometime between age 8 and 12. Sure enough, at age 5 he wet the bed nearly every night. Around age 7 it had dropped to once a month. He'll be 10 in a few weeks, and he has only wet the bed once in the past year!

HTH!

bearhuntermomma3 · August 2014

I dont understand and I'm almost afraid.to say anything bc I dont agree with anything you do as a parent. Your co.sleeping? That's ridiculous how's your sex.life and not just the sex but the affection and love???? And your still breast feeding a almost 3 yr old? That's awfully disturbing. And your putting diapers on a 4 1/2 yr old with is wrong with you? Maybe if you wake up your four yr old and offer him your boob at night as well he will go to the restroom.... This.cant be serious parenting???

KateLouise · August 2014

Thanks ladies.

I agree consistency is key. What happened with the transitioning to her bed was that she'd wake every 30 - 60minutes, if I didn't stay with her. I'd go to her and she'd quickly resettle, but would wake again after I left. After a week, the broken sleep was killing me, so we went back to bed-sharing because I could get a decent amount of sleep.

So yes I know that goes against all kinds of rules around sticking with a plan yada yada yada, but what's done is done.

@Emerald27 thanks for all your thoughts. I've gotten to where we are doing don't offer/don't refuse, and I added in when she asked for the breast I would offer her a cup of milk first, which sometimes she takes, but if she insists on the breast then that's fine.

@neverblushed thanks for your feedback on bedwetting. I think our little girl is a really deep sleeper too. She has never once woken up dry after a night sleep. And if she falls asleep in the afternoon (she hasn't napped for a long time, but occasionally falls asleep if really tired) she will often pee in her sleep, and I have even see her poo in her sleep as a 4 yr old.

Thanks again ladies. Lots to think about, and I'll see how we go.

Emerald27 · August 2014

@KateLouise‌ Another thought for you - as you wean, especially during nighttime and early morning hours, make sure you always have a sippy of water to offer her. Sometimes kids just wake thirsty, and especially if you're weaning, your milk will become salty...so she might want to nurse more and more from thirst.

Being able to limit her time at the breast overnight and offer water too will keep her comfortable and hydrated.

Need help on ending bedsharing, weaning and toilet training overnight.

Re: Need help on ending bedsharing, weaning and toilet training overnight.

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