The reason having a lap baby while flying is unsafe

penguingrrl · August 2014

I know many people are comfortable traveling with an infant on their lap and go with the reasoning that in a plane accident most passengers are SOL anyway. A flight had to make an emergency landing yesterday because severe turbulence injured four adults enough that they needed to get immediate medical attention. Other passengers described it as being "like a roller coaster" and it came pretty suddenly. That's the real reason babies should be properly buckled in their carseat. Not in case the plane falls out of the air and crashes, but in case the pilot needs to prevent that and it's a very rough flight.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/05/injuries-turbulence-emergency-landing/13612509/

penguingrrl · August 2014

I completely agree. I don't understand how it's legal to have a lap baby at all. There are just too many safety issues surrounding it.

penguingrrl · August 2014

Earlybird725 said:

My issue is with breastfeeding. We take 4 hour cross country flights. You have to take baby out to feed anyway. Turbulence can happen anytime. And my kids don't sit nicely in carseats until like 3. They scream. And you can't use tray tables with car seats. I would prefer a better harness option for littles that can sit. My 2 yr old is itty bitty but we usually travel to visit my parents who have a seat for her so I'm by bringing hers.

I can see the inconveniences, but I guess I feel like safety comes first. And while I definitely would say that you may need to take a baby out to nurse or a toddler out to use the bathroom, the more time they're buckled during the flight the lower the likelihood of them being unbuckled at the wrong time. As far as the trays are concerned, I have no idea about that (I haven't flown with a FF child so the tray table was unusable due to my kid being RF anyway) but I would imagine lower profile seats would be much better for that than some of the bulkier seats (I know my radian sits far, far lower than the britax marathon we used to have).

Andrewsgal · August 2014

https://www.amazon.com/Child-Airplane-Travel-Harness-Restraint/dp/B0012E4FV8 This is fabulous.

penguingrrl · August 2014

dandelionhater said:

https://www.amazon.com/Child-Airplane-Travel-Harness-Restraint/dp/B0012E4FV8 This is fabulous.

Yes! Once a kid can sit up well enough to use it that's a perfect option, especially if you aren't going to need carseats on the other end!

mandymack · August 2014

Ugh, so scary! My girlfriend is a Southwest Flight Attendant and was injured a few days ago on a flight from Nashville to Austin because of turbulence. Thought she broke her arm! Two other Attendants did have broken bones.

penguingrrl · August 2014

mandymack said:

Ugh, so scary! My girlfriend is a Southwest Flight Attendant and was injured a few days ago on a flight from Nashville to Austin because of turbulence. Thought she broke her arm! Two other Attendants did have broken bones.

Oh my goodness! I hope they all recovery quickly! That's so scary.

rosesandpetals · August 2014

Is it.just me or are there more plane accidents than there used to be? Not crashes per se but turbulence and injuries, plus those 2 missing plane. I never used to be afraid of flying but it is freaking me out lately. Maybe I just.pay closer attention lately.

penguingrrl · August 2014

rosesandpetals said:

Is it.just me or are there more plane accidents than there used to be? Not crashes per se but turbulence and injuries, plus those 2 missing plane. I never used to be afraid of flying but it is freaking me out lately. Maybe I just.pay closer attention lately.

I think they are just getting more media attention. I mean, I heard about this turbulence story, but the one msmandymack shared didn't get coverage. Makes me wonder how frequently people get injured in turbulence and it isn't reported.

sschwege · August 2014

As pp said it is all a calculated risk. The FFA urges parents to buy the seat and yet will not make it mandator, why? According to them it is still safer to fly with a lap child than drive on a highway with everyone properly restrained. They don't want people choosing to drive because of the added cost, so they continue to allow lap children.

Flying with everyone properly restrained is the safer option, but the safest option is of course to stay home. I'm just not going to feel bad for flying with my child in my lap, just as I'm not going to feel bad about taking road trips with them. They are all safe ways to travel some safer than others, but all safe.

lexusolsen · August 2014

cjcouple said:
idk, I get what you are saying but IMO it's all about calculated risks. I mean yes something could happen. but odds are very low. probably the same risk as them falling off a play scape and snapping their neck.

also what about FF vs RF. are the same risks there? can you even safely RF a car seat on a plane? doubtful.

Right but all those things happen to someone. It doesn't matter how few people it happens to when it's your kid.

sschwege · August 2014

lexusolsen said:

cjcouple said:
idk, I get what you are saying but IMO it's all about calculated risks. I mean yes something could happen. but odds are very low. probably the same risk as them falling off a play scape and snapping their neck.

also what about FF vs RF. are the same risks there? can you even safely RF a car seat on a plane? doubtful.
Right but all those things happen to someone. It doesn't matter how few people it happens to when it's your kid.

But bad things happen all the time, just today a boy was stabbed to death at a park by another boy, perhaps we shouldn't allow our kids to play in public places?

lexusolsen · August 2014

sschwege said:

lexusolsen said:

cjcouple said:
idk, I get what you are saying but IMO it's all about calculated risks. I mean yes something could happen. but odds are very low. probably the same risk as them falling off a play scape and snapping their neck.

also what about FF vs RF. are the same risks there? can you even safely RF a car seat on a plane? doubtful.
Right but all those things happen to someone. It doesn't matter how few people it happens to when it's your kid.
But bad things happen all the time, just today a boy was stabbed to death at a park by another boy, perhaps we shouldn't allow our kids to play in public places?

I'm pretty sure you are more likely to experience turbulence on an airplane than get stabbed at a park. If someone got stabbed at that same park several times a week and you still took your kids there then you'd be responsible. Random stabbing at the park? Not your fault.

sschwege · August 2014

lexusolsen said:

sschwege said:

lexusolsen said:
idk, I get what you are saying but IMO it's all about calculated risks. I mean yes something could happen. but odds are very low. probably the same risk as them falling off a play scape and snapping their neck.

also what about FF vs RF. are the same risks there? can you even safely RF a car seat on a plane? doubtful.
Right but all those things happen to someone. It doesn't matter how few people it happens to when it's your kid.
But bad things happen all the time, just today a boy was stabbed to death at a park by another boy, perhaps we shouldn't allow our kids to play in public places?

I'm pretty sure you are more likely to experience turbulence on an airplane than get stabbed at a park. If someone got stabbed at that same park several times a week and you still took your kids there then you'd be responsible. Random stabbing at the park? Not your fault.

Ok, so we can all agree flying is safer than traveling by highway, correct? So if a parent chooses the less safer of the two options are you responsible if something happens, is that your fault?

lexusolsen · August 2014

cjcouple said:
I hate when that happens. dup post.

lex I know this is sensitive topic. so I understand things look different for you. not trying to start anything.

I was just being honest that the risk is low enough that I probably would not have bought a separate seat. saved the $300 and been miserable. who wants a baby On their lap that long anyway? lol

but I wouldn't judge someone for choosing it.

I appreciate that.

In your pool example... Do you let your kids swim alone and without knowing how to swim? I bet you don't. You make a dangerous situation as safe as possible. Sure flying is dangerous, that's why you should make it as safe as possible. Same with driving.

vlagrl29 · August 2014

our flight coming in from vacation had some pretty bad turbulence when we were landing in ATL. Not like a roller coaster, but still enough to charge my anxiety. DD was rubbing my arm I was so anxious. She did just fine though. It just reminded me of why I don't like having to fly thru the ATL airport.

LoveBeingMama · August 2014

I just find it funny that this board would flame me for letting my 2 year old ride his tricycle in our backyard without a helmet, but not bat an eye about holding an infant on a lap during a flight.

I've flown a number of times with babies. Always used a car seat for under 2, and even used it last year when my son was 3. I know it's a calculated risk; I've calculated that it is worth the $300 for both my children's safety and my sanity on the flights. I don't think poorly of people who don't use car seats on the plane, I just don't think they truly understand the chances of severe injury.

bumpuser8448316 · August 2014

I feel like the "the risk is so small" argument is kind of like the "we used to drive without car seats and survived!" Argument. Sure you/your baby survived- but how many didn't? I think a lot of the "I'm ok with a calculated risk" arguments come from the fact that people don't want to spend the extra $$ or deal with the inconvenience of bringing the car seat.

penguingrrl · August 2014

FTR I wasn't posting this to judge people who don't use a carseat. Yes, it's a calculated risk and my personal opinion is that if I can't afford for seats for everyone we won't fly. Although by the time I fly again it will be a moot point since my youngest will be over 2. I can also understand why someone might decide to save the money and have a baby on their lap.

But I don't often hear turbulence brought up as a reason to have a child in a carseat in flight, it's usually centered more around protecting the carseat and issues on the runway since take off and landing are where most incidents occur. I heard this story on the news this morning and thought it was interesting and figured I would share. While I had heard that bad turbulence happens, I didn't realize turbulence could be quite that bad.

bumpuser8448316 · August 2014

All I know is I flew with a 21 month old on my lap and it was Hell. I've flown with a baby/toddler in a car seat and it was a much more enjoyable experience. I will never fly with a lap child ever again

bumpuser924057 · August 2014

Where are people getting this $300 price tag from? I can't remember the last time we found flights anywhere outside the state for less than $400. And honestly, this is a huge reason why we don't travel anymore. DH and I are big people; we aren't comfortable in airplane seats just on our own, let alone with kids on our laps. But on average, tickets to visit the grandparents in the Midwest seem to cost $500+ whenever we're able to make plans, and that's $2500 for all of us just for airfare. We can't do it; it's cheaper and easier to have them come to us.

I can completely understand why people aren't willing to shell out money for a extra plane ticket if they aren't forced to do so. And if they were forced to, I understand why they wouldn't want to travel with their kids at all.

lexusolsen · August 2014

thecheshirekat said:
Where are people getting this $300 price tag from? I can't remember the last time we found flights anywhere outside the state for less than $400. And honestly, this is a huge reason why we don't travel anymore. DH and I are big people; we aren't comfortable in airplane seats just on our own, let alone with kids on our laps. But on average, tickets to visit the grandparents in the Midwest seem to cost $500+ whenever we're able to make plans, and that's $2500 for all of us just for airfare. We can't do it; it's cheaper and easier to have them come to us.

I can completely understand why people aren't willing to shell out money for a extra plane ticket if they aren't forced to do so. And if they were forced to, I understand why they wouldn't want to travel with their kids at all.

I'm looking at spending $300 (give or take) to fly from CA to St Louis. Of course, there are plenty of flights that are much more expensive. That's just the number that was on my mind since I'm currently looking at flights.

LoveBeingMama · August 2014

cjcouple said:

LoveBeingMama said:
I just find it funny that this board would flame me for letting my 2 year old ride his tricycle in our backyard without a helmet, but not bat an eye about holding an infant on a lap during a flight.

I've flown a number of times with babies. Always used a car seat for under 2, and even used it last year when my son was 3. I know it's a calculated risk; I've calculated that it is worth the $300 for both my children's safety and my sanity on the flights. I don't think poorly of people who don't use car seats on the plane, I just don't think they truly understand the chances of severe injury.
well for the record I would not judge you for tricycle either. I must not have been on that day because I don't remember that.

(((shrug)))

I wasn't talking about a specific thread, I've just seen a lot of "helmets no matter what age/riding toy/riding surface" posts and used it as a comparison.

Thank you for not hypothetically judging me. :-)

LoveBeingMama · August 2014

Also, re: flights for $300 or less, we often fly Spirit Airlines. You pay for everything a la carte (checked bags, carry on, food. Etc) and can get very cheap base fares. There is a cost though, in that there is very little leg room, the seat in front of us one time was sticky, and I haven't been overly impressed with the service. I've actually decided that I can't handle flying with them again and would prefer to pay higher fares for a more enjoyable experience, but they have gotten us to our destination cheaply. If you sign up for their program (there is an annual fee, but it's not super high), and are flexible with travel dates, you can sometimes get $9 fares (plus taxes). Again, not my favorite airline by any stretch, but it has allowed us to fly places over the past few years.

sschwege · August 2014

amy052006 said:

sschwege said:
As pp said it is all a calculated risk. The Fcompletelys parents to buy the seat and yet will not make it mandator, why? According to them it is still safer to fly with a lap child than drive on a highway with everyone properly restrained. They don't want people choosing to drive because of the added cost, so they continue to allow lap children.

Flying with everyone properly restrained is the safer option, but the safest option is of course to stay home. I'm just not going to feel bad for flying with my child in my lap, just as I'm not going to feel bad about taking road trips with them. They are all safe ways to travel some safer than others, but all safe.
You are missing a crucial part here though.

Flying with you kid on your lap, besides being unsafe, is just a pain in the ass to people around you. Even if you aren't sitting next to strangers, a kid who isn't restrained is just squirmy, can kick the seat, whatever.

If you don't want to do the safest thing possible in your car, it doesn't impact me. It does impact me when your 18 month old is squirming all over because you want to save a few bucks.

I know, everyone here has perfect snowflakes who sleep for 10 hour international flights. I'm talking about other kids.

But I am not missing the crucial part of this post, the point of this post was to discuss safety.

We discussed that in my pp, most people argreed I was being inconsiderate to fellow passengers by having a lap child.

Andrewsgal · August 2014

I am flying with my four month old as a lap child on Sunday. I never ever do this but DS screams in his car seat and sleeps in my arms. The people around me will like me a lot more with me holding him than him in a seat. That being said this is probably the only time I will do this. Honestly the safety thing is ehh to me. I defer to DH on all things planes as he as a tiny bit of experience with them (sarcasm font). We take calculated risks everyday. With 80,000 flights a day the data to support turbulence risks just isn't there.

MomIn2013 · August 2014

Having been on a flight with that type of completely unexpected turbulence, I would never fly with DS as a lap child. To me, the cost of a ticket is a small price to pay to not take that risk. We're taking a short two-hour flight in a couple of months and DS will be in his carseat in his own seat.

bumpuser8448316 · August 2014

dandelionhater said:

I am flying with my four month old as a lap child on Sunday. I never ever do this but DS screams in his car seat and sleeps in my arms. The people around me will like me a lot more with me holding him than him in a seat. That being said this is probably the only time I will do this. Honestly the safety thing is ehh to me. I defer to DH on all things planes as he as a tiny bit of experience with them (sarcasm font). We take calculated risks everyday. With 80,000 flights a day the data to support turbulence risks just isn't there.

That's how DD was as an infant. It was so bad that I had to stop every few mlles, take her out and calm her down then try again. I rarely went anywhere because I couldn't handle the rd faced crying so hard she wasn't breathing thing. Took her on an airplane (in car seat) at 4 months and she slept like a champ. She was so good I literally cried and then begged DH for a plane lol.

Hope you flight is just as smooth with L!

cedenton · August 2014

bleeehhh...I'm flying with DS (he'll be 2 in a few weeks) tomorrow. I'm sure it's going to suck for everyone. But, we can't afford to buy him a seat right now. The trip was last minute (like booked last week) due to my mom's health. I'm not going to miss out on seeing my mom, who is in declining health, because someone might judge me or because of a very slight safety risk. I drive him around every day in a car and the risk there is way more than the possibility of turbulence on an airplane.

hlm184 · August 2014

I am flying with M as a lapchild in December. He'll be what, eight, nine months? Honestly, the price was a huge part of the decision. If I couldn't fly with him as a lap child, I could not justify the cost to go home for my mom's surprise 60th birthday party. Don't need a carseat at the destination, I have a family member providing all the big stuff I'll need.

I think if I'm okay driving on the highway with him in his carseat, it would be a bit hypocritical of me to not fly with a lapchild, which is statistically far safer.

trizzie · August 2014

I have flown with both of my kids (when they were under 2) as lap children many times. I never had a problem. both preferred to be in my arms at that age and slept most of the time. Turbulence was never an issue (and at least one of those times we flew through a major storm). When DS hit the age where he needed a seat we got the CARES harness, and used it once. He hated the thing and made a bigger scene over it than he ever did as a lap child.

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