Clinic saying no to "rainbow" families?

MoseyAnkles · July 2014

I'm sure most of you TTC are married and using your husband's sperm to conceive, but some are using donated sperm. My ex and I used donated sperm for 2 years with no success then she switched to a known donor and got KU. We had to go to a clinic far away (a 28hr drive) to do this since all the local clinics discriminated against LGBT families. Believe it or not, I actually understood it and was "ok" with it. But now I hear that these same clinics are turning away people who want to use the sperm of a donor who is not of the same race as the client. They say that the resulting babies should be able to have a cultural connection with the race. What do you ladies think? Is this even legal? I understand that it is slightly different than an interracial couple conceiving, since you can't help who you fall in love with, and you CAN choose the race of your donor. But this is leading to a smaller pool of prospective donors, and clients are complaining that the lady just down the street is now pregnant from the same donor they were "forced" to choose because they couldn't go outside of their race. I also think it's a bit ridiculous...I mean if I want a bi-racial baby, then it should be my choice, right?

Unknown · July 2014

This content has been removed.

MoseyAnkles · July 2014

It's a redneck sort of a place, and the discrimination is and was rampant. So at the time, we just didn't argue and went somewhere accepting. Discrimination hurts, but sometimes you have to pick your battles if you know what I mean, lol.

DebateThis · July 2014

I'm not Canadian so I have no idea on legality or not. But I know that I get irate when there are irrational policies placed on the decision making rights of infertiles. It's already hard enough, and to have someone attempt to foist their idea of how an ideal family "should" look or how a family "should" have children is sickening.

MoseyAnkles · July 2014

Yes, exactly! We felt the same way with having to go out of province for our treatments. We work in the oil and gas industry and live in work camps most of the time, so it was VERY hard. We had to fly out of remote places the exact moment we detected OV and working for a male-dominated industry that can fire you for being pregnant made this really inconvenient (your aunt can only die so many times before they start to wonder). It would've been hard enough without all of that; why make it harder on people? No wonder it took 8 years to finally conceive. btw, totally worth all the effort

Twinkie0612 · August 2014

When we were looking at doing a cycle with donor embryos, we purposely did not look into a very large successful clinic because they would not accept same sex couples or single women as patients (We actually meet all of their guidelines, but I won't give my money to a clinic that feels that single women or same sex couples shouldn't be given the opportunity to be a parent).

I have actually seen couples going through embryo adoption that are looking for embryos of a race different from themselves. They have previous children through adoption that are of another race and want to give them siblings of the same race (while still experiencing pregnancy).

mamablue85 · August 2014

That is terrible.

Medical practices do have the right to determine their client pool in a very limited way. However, blatant discrimination is not one of them. If they have any contracts with HMOs, public or private, and they refuse to see those patients who participate in those plans, that's a breach of their contract and they should at least be denied that revenue stream. Fee for service is trickier.

kayteebayb · August 2014

When I hear that clinics are still discriminating against ANY couple, it makes me so embarrassed to be an American. When are we going to get the fuck over this and just let consenting adults do what they want/deserve to do?

ETA: I just realized you said you are Canadian, so my comment makes less sense. But still true!

CallMeShoes · August 2014

You're better than me. I would've lost my shit on these people, looked into suing them, and wrote HORRIBLE reviews on every online review board possible.

Discrimination like that, especially when led by educated people, is beyond unacceptable. And honestly, if you're going to discriminate against people whose choices you disagree with, does that mean they also refuse to inseminate people they deem to be too young or old? Do they also refuse to assist those who had premarital sex? Where do you draw the line?!?

Their job isn't to judge you, it's to provide you with safe medical care.

DebateThis · August 2014

CallMeShoes said:

You're better than me. I would've lost my shit on these people, looked into suing them, and wrote HORRIBLE reviews on every online review board possible.

Discrimination like that, especially when led by educated people, is beyond unacceptable. And honestly, if you're going to discriminate against people whose choices you disagree with, does that mean they also refuse to inseminate people they deem to be too young or old? Do they also refuse to assist those who had premarital sex? Where do you draw the line?!?

Their job isn't to judge you, it's to provide you with safe medical care.

I understand the point you are trying to make but these hypotheticals, especially in the infertility world, actually have a lot of validity. Many clinics will not work with women over certain ages (IIRC 45 seems to be a common cutoff) due to extremely reduced success rates/increased rates of birth defects and preterm labor. Obviously infertility clinics have no business working with minors, so there would be a "too young" age limit as well.

CallMeShoes · August 2014

DebateThis said:

CallMeShoes said:

You're better than me. I would've lost my shit on these people, looked into suing them, and wrote HORRIBLE reviews on every online review board possible.

Discrimination like that, especially when led by educated people, is beyond unacceptable. And honestly, if you're going to discriminate against people whose choices you disagree with, does that mean they also refuse to inseminate people they deem to be too young or old? Do they also refuse to assist those who had premarital sex? Where do you draw the line?!?

Their job isn't to judge you, it's to provide you with safe medical care.

I understand the point you are trying to make but these hypotheticals, especially in the infertility world, actually have a lot of validity. Many clinics will not work with women over certain ages (IIRC 45 seems to be a common cutoff) due to extremely reduced success rates/increased rates of birth defects and preterm labor. Obviously infertility clinics have no business working with minors, so there would be a "too young" age limit as well.

By that, I meant discriminating against people who are early 20s because they're too young, or people in their early 40s because they're too old.

Evo9380 · August 2014

I normally lurk and I'll probably get flamed for this...

I agree the clinic was in the wrong forcing their opinion, but I seriously side eye anyone who makes a stink about the choice of their future child's appearance. Race does not determine a child's upbringing, personality, or any features apart from their looks unless the parents RAISE the child with the cultural knowledge for their race.

In this case, it does seem like the woman simply wanted a "designer family". She had no other adopted children, so the "sibling of the same race" theory did not apply. She just wanted a baby of a different race - just because. Last I checked, children are people, not accessories. Isn't SHE discriminating against the rest of the donors?

Anyways, feel free to flame away.

ETA - I did read that the policy was updated, but then I read a later update that seems to contradict that so I'm taking that part out. It may or may not still be in affect!

lebradford · August 2014

Evo9380 said:
I normally lurk and I'll probably get flamed for this...

I agree the clinic was in the wrong forcing their opinion, but I seriously side eye anyone who makes a stink about the choice of their future child's appearance. Race does not determine a child's upbringing, personality, or any features apart from their looks unless the parents RAISE the child with the cultural knowledge for their race.

In this case, it does seem like the woman simply wanted a "designer family". She had no other adopted children, so the "sibling of the same race" theory did not apply. She just wanted a baby of a different race - just because. Last I checked, children are people, not accessories. Isn't SHE discriminating against the rest of the donors?

For the record, the clinic did change their policy last year (supposedly), it apparently just wasn't updated on their website.

Anyways, feel free to flame away.

I'm pretty tired, so I could be missing something, but why do you get the impression that someone was trying to have a "designer child"?

Maybe they selected a donor based on intellectual and personality traits and the donor happened to be of another race. It really seems like you're jumping to conclusions here to support what sounds like a pretty fucked up policy/clinic.

Evo9380 · August 2014

lebradford said:

I normally lurk and I'll probably get flamed for this...

I agree the clinic was in the wrong forcing their opinion, but I seriously side eye anyone who makes a stink about the choice of their future child's appearance. Race does not determine a child's upbringing, personality, or any features apart from their looks unless the parents RAISE the child with the cultural knowledge for their race.

In this case, it does seem like the woman simply wanted a "designer family". She had no other adopted children, so the "sibling of the same race" theory did not apply. She just wanted a baby of a different race - just because. Last I checked, children are people, not accessories. Isn't SHE discriminating against the rest of the donors?

For the record, the clinic did change their policy last year (supposedly), it apparently just wasn't updated on their website.

Anyways, feel free to flame away.

I'm pretty tired, so I could be missing something, but why do you get the impression that someone was trying to have a "designer child"? Maybe they selected a donor based on intellectual and personality traits and the donor happened to be of another race. It really seems like you're jumping to conclusions here to support what sounds like a pretty fucked up policy/clinic.

There was an actual article on this instance and a follow-up article with the clinic in question.

If this is NOT about that specific clinic, feel free to ignore me

I didn't see an article linked in the OP but I'm pretty sure this (Canadian) clinic is the same one the OP was talking about.

ETA: I'm absolutely all for mixed race families! Children are incredible and I firmly believe that anyone who wants to experience that, should be able to. I just think that this clinic is getting a bad name without people having a ton of info on it.

lebradford · August 2014

Evo9380 said:

lebradford said:

Evo9380 said:
I normally lurk and I'll probably get flamed for this...

I agree the clinic was in the wrong forcing their opinion, but I seriously side eye anyone who makes a stink about the choice of their future child's appearance. Race does not determine a child's upbringing, personality, or any features apart from their looks unless the parents RAISE the child with the cultural knowledge for their race.

In this case, it does seem like the woman simply wanted a "designer family". She had no other adopted children, so the "sibling of the same race" theory did not apply. She just wanted a baby of a different race - just because. Last I checked, children are people, not accessories. Isn't SHE discriminating against the rest of the donors?

For the record, the clinic did change their policy last year (supposedly), it apparently just wasn't updated on their website.

Anyways, feel free to flame away.

I'm pretty tired, so I could be missing something, but why do you get the impression that someone was trying to have a "designer child"?

Maybe they selected a donor based on intellectual and personality traits and the donor happened to be of another race. It really seems like you're jumping to conclusions here to support what sounds like a pretty fucked up policy/clinic.

There was an actual article on this instance and a follow-up article with the clinic in question.

If this is NOT about that specific clinic, feel free to ignore me

I didn't see an article linked in the OP but I'm pretty sure this (Canadian) clinic is the same one the OP was talking about.

ETA: I'm absolutely all for mixed race families! Children are incredible and I firmly believe that anyone who wants to experience that, should be able to. I just think that this clinic is getting a bad name without people having a ton of info on it.

Oh, ok. I was completely unaware of any additional information on the situation other than the OP. I can't really comment on the situation either way then.

I guess *maybe* there is an explanation for the race thing, but I can't really come up with any plausible explanations for them denying same-sex couples treatment, so I hope you don't mind if I continue to be irritated with the clinic unless you have some links in their defense....

Evo9380 · August 2014

I can give you the article regarding the race issue, but as far as I know this specific one DOES accept same-sex couples, so I can't help in that aspect. I thought the OP had said that her original clinic was the one that denied her, and the new clinic that accepted them is the one with the race-issue.

Either way, I definitely agree all clinics should accept same-sex couples and singles. Like I mentioned earlier, I believe anyone who wants a child SHOULD be able to have one!

ETA: https://blogs.calgaryherald.com/2014/07/29/my-conversation-with-the-regional-fertility-programs-dr-calvin-greene/

It's the followup article. I can't find the original (I read it a few weeks ago), This is one of those "every story has two sides" scenarios.

DebateThis · August 2014

Evo9380 said:

I can give you the article regarding the race issue, but as far as I know this specific one DOES accept same-sex couples, so I can't help in that aspect. I thought the OP had said that her original clinic was the one that denied her, and the new clinic that accepted them is the one with the race-issue.

Either way, I definitely agree all clinics should accept same-sex couples and singles. Like I mentioned earlier, I believe anyone who wants a child SHOULD be able to have one!

ETA: https://blogs.calgaryherald.com/2014/07/29/my-conversation-with-the-regional-fertility-programs-dr-calvin-greene/

It's the followup article. I can't find the original (I read it a few weeks ago), This is one of those "every story has two sides" scenarios.

This doctor sounds like a fucking asshole. "Why would you want to have a baby of a different race?" Uh, myriad reasons? Maybe she found an Asian donor who had similar hobbies? Maybe she found a Black donor who'd gone to her high school or had the highest GPA of anyone in the donor catalogs or had the extensive family history she was looking for?

How can a fertility SPECIALIST be this blind?

ETA: The more I read of this interview, the angrier I get.

Twinkie0612 · August 2014

I couldn't finish reading the interview because obviously this specialist is completely closed minded.

MoseyAnkles · August 2014

dani_brewer, I work as a Pipefitter. I help build oil and gas plants for companies like Exxon and Shell. They can simply say that working for them is "unsafe" for my baby and that I'm a liability (which is actually true in the 3rd trimester, and depending on the job it's true in the 2nd as well). My wife worked in the office (doing pipefitter paperwork, or "paperfitting" as we like to call it) until she was 32 weeks, when the doc put her on bed rest. So it worked out well for us

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