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February 2014 Moms
tangerinemachine
member
Gender Equality
tangerinemachine
member
This is a topic that is currently being discussed on my Facebook newsfeed. A girl posted that she said it would be nice if a man took her out on a first date it would be a nice gesture if he paid for the meal and she said it would show that he really liked her etc. and she didn't say every date just the first one. Everyone started backlash about how this is 2014 and everything should be 50-50 etc. I'm torn about it because if you think about it some things are still different for genders and I couldn't imagine it another way. Such as buying an engagement ring, we don't see couples buying equally expensive engagement rings very often. I just think there's nothing wrong with some old school traditions that make a woman feel special. Am I wrong?
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Re: Gender Equality
Re engagement rings: I think this is more tradition than gender equality. I personally like this tradition since I am a sappy romantic. I have 2 female friends that proposed to their BFs. 1 said yes and 1 was so upset she proposed before him that their relationship took a hit and they broke up.
Gender equality and dating has balanced quite a bit: women hold doors for men, women drive during dates, and women initiate dates. I think it comes down to the values of the two people in the relationship... that is going to drive their compatibility.
BFP #1 11/01/12 M/C 12/22/12 @11w4d
BFP #2 06/04/13 DS born 02/08/14
Most women want sparkles and most men don't.
Sparkles tend to cost more.
DH and I split the cost of the wedding bands. He wanted to pay for the engagement ring as a gift but I covered other things.
@RondackHiker well it's true though if people are so serious about everything being equal in a relationship where does it stop? It's just a first dinner. If you invite someone to dinner at least offer.
BFP #1 11/01/12 M/C 12/22/12 @11w4d
BFP #2 06/04/13 DS born 02/08/14
This is different than what you said at first.
You said the man should pay. Now you say the person who asks should pay. Women ask men out, frequently.
As for being out of the loop for "a man pays and is owed something", don't be silly. Only assholes feel entitled to sex.
Many women do as @mamajob did and pay to avoid the anger of those assholes.
As for the assholes that feel entitled to sex. I honestly never encountered an angry asshole that wanted sex so that's why I felt that I was out of the loop on it.
Where does it stop..meaning do you want every single thing to always be 50-50 or are some things ok to not be 50-50.
Yes,being equal is fantastic but all I was saying is sometimes old traditons are nice and make you feel good and it doesn't make you a goldigger and shouldn't make you feel like you need to put out in order for someone to do something nice for you. And if a man paid for the first date I would say you know what that was really nice of him to do that and take him out to a movie next time.
BFP #1 11/01/12 M/C 12/22/12 @11w4d
BFP #2 06/04/13 DS born 02/08/14
BFP #1 11/01/12 M/C 12/22/12 @11w4d
BFP #2 06/04/13 DS born 02/08/14
I don't even know where to start with this.
We are raising our boys the same way. To have dignity, show respect, and be a gentleman.
When DH and I were dating, I paid my fair share of dates when I asked him to come. I now also open the door for him when he has his hands full with a diaper bag/baby carrier. So these roles can be reversed.
You hold the doors for others. You help them with packages. You pay if you invite them out.
If you're eating out a lot with a friend or date, you should split paying or come to some agreement that works for the two of you.
I treated dates the way I would my friends.
Could you please re-read my post for clarity...
No where in there did I say that I expected a "MAN" to act this way. I was stating that I admired that my DH just did these things without thinking about it. I never said he did this just for our dates or just for women. In your words, my H is a "decent human being". From my experience people need to be RAISED this way, which DH was....
I am glad our dates weren't treated like we were "friends" because it was more special than that.
As far as dates go, whoever does the asking for the first date should pay. After that, come to an agreement between the two of you about who will pay for each date. Some people are happy and comfortable in "traditional" roles, some people aren't. If you aren't happy with the arrangement in your relationship, change it.
Engagement rings are the same deal, and sparkly rings DO cost more, that's just the way it is--you figure out what works for you in your relationship. H went looking at rings before, got an idea of prices and what he liked, then we went shopping together. He gave me a "budget" of what he'd pay, and if I wanted something more, that was fine, but I needed to make up the balance. That was fine with me. Does that work for everyone? Nope.
If someone paying for everything is what someone wants in a relationship, fine, but they have to find someone who is willing to do that and not complain about people who would rather have it be 50/50 or otherwise. No one "rule" fits for everyone or every relationship.
Bump Unofficial Glossary
BFP #1 11/01/12 M/C 12/22/12 @11w4d
BFP #2 06/04/13 DS born 02/08/14
I think of it this way, if you expect the person to pay you are basically saying if you want to have dinner with me, you have to pay for the privilege. It's a weird social custom. And honestly, as I get older I get more uncomfortable with "traditions" because a lot of them treat women like property.
This isn't saying I'm opposed to acting like a decent human being. For example - I hold doors for people and I never think "Oh what a gallant gentleman" if a man happens to hold the door for me, I think he's a polite person. Being considerate of others isn't about gender.
Regarding the OP specifically - I feel sad for the girl who posted it. Not only because of the responses (because seriously WTAF is wrong with the "if she puts out I'll buy her pizza" dude?!) but because she puts so much stock in being valued by a man.
I have a lot of feelings about this topic....::jumps off soapbox::
Actually, don't.
I like it.
BFP #1 11/01/12 M/C 12/22/12 @11w4d
BFP #2 06/04/13 DS born 02/08/14
I agree with you, that's why I think people are taking it the wrong way.
BFP #1 11/01/12 M/C 12/22/12 @11w4d
BFP #2 06/04/13 DS born 02/08/14
I think a reasonably priced ring as a gift is fine, if the groom-to-be has the money (I like @Firefly9 's system where the groom gives a budget and the bride has to cover the difference if she wants more). In general, I think engagement rings should be much more 50/50 than they are.
That doesn't mean I think everything should be split to the penny, but division of labor and finances should be as equal as possible considering both individuals' income and preferences.
Here's what you said was posted :she said it would be nice if a man took her out on a first date it would be a nice gesture if he paid for the meal and she said it would show that he really liked her etc.
How does him paying for a meal show he really likes her? I view a person saying they want to spend time with me/get to know me better as indication that they like me. Not the payment for my meal.
BFP #1 11/01/12 M/C 12/22/12 @11w4d
BFP #2 06/04/13 DS born 02/08/14
Of course it's different once your in an established relationship.
I like engagement rings, I sometimes used to wear a ring on that finger when i was single just to stop men hastling and I found it was an easy way of saying 'I'm taken'. But also it's a lovely gesture. I personally have my husband's great grandmothers ring so it didn't cost a penny, and I love the idea that someone else wore my ring. But I'm really into that sort of thing. I don't really think the cost is as important as the gesture.
I don't have any problem with men being chivalrous and traditions like this, I think the misconception is that we don't give anything back. Women bare children, it's biology and can't be changed and many of the men I know really respect us for that. I asked my DH if he would have liked to have 9months off with our son and he said it was my right for giving birth. I don't necessarily agree with him but I think many men have more traditional attitudes and like to treat women as ladies.
I'm not saying it's wrong to so it differently, I just hate when people make an issue out of it.
I know - I thought it was kind of sweet!
And I think your joint method of choosing a ring and budget is great, too. As long as the focus isn't on the amount of money spent (aka, a minimum threshold), the size of the diamond, etc. and instead the focus is on the relationship and the individuals, I'm happy!
My mam raised me to offer my seat to anyone elderly/ pregnant growing up which is obviously a good thing. It really irritates me when I see bunches of kids not doing this! But she also used to think that men should offer their seats to women. Her reasoning was that you can't tell when a woman is in early pregnancy or on her period and can feel very weak if she has to stand for too long. As an adult I know exactly what she means and have often struggled standing on trains because of AF and in pregnancy.
Obviously I would not accept a seat if I did not need it and there may be reasons a man could not be feeling well either, but some women frequently feel weak for these reasons.
I don't think a woman should get a seat just because she's female but I can see my mothers point as well.
I'd be really interested in people's thoughts on this?
BFP #1 11/01/12 M/C 12/22/12 @11w4d
BFP #2 06/04/13 DS born 02/08/14