Organic vs. Used (What's really greener?)

Rannkster · July 2014

Sorry if this is a repeat, but I didn't see anything in past threads about this specific topic. I'm a craigslist enthusiast, and have been known to re-use wrapping paper and wash out ziplock bags. (See: cheap, hates wasting, feels guilty throwing anything away that might still be useful).

So this whole baby shopping thing is driving me nuts, especially with all the rules about what you supposedly should never re-use. Anybody have a source for some more practical advice about such things?

-I got a drop side crib with a hardly-used non-organic mattress from my granola sister in law. Planning on getting the locks to prevent the drop side from going down, and just using the mattress, since it shouldn't be off-gassing anymore (6 years old).

-Bought a beautiful Arms Reach Co Sleeper Sleigh Bed for cheap on CL that came with the possibly crummy mattress, also older and not heavily used by a very normal seeming family. Wondering if I should spring for a new, organic mattress that would be more than the bed was (but then I could sell it when we're done with it) or just not worry about it. I'm thinking we'll use this for his first 5 months or so.

-Got a used bigger kid car seat that I can't tell if it's expired, but it very likely will be by the time our kiddo would be big enough, and a bucket & base from my sister in law that seems perfect, but is expired. So now I end up having to probably do the throwing away of apparently perfectly good items because of either a.) safety or b.) a scam by the carseat people. Seems impossible to tell the difference

-A friend gave me her used Medela breast pump. Definitely an open system. Considering digging around in there to see if I can tell if any milk got into the places the can't be cleaned. This one really bummed me out to research, as it sounds like it's a pretty bad idea to re-use it. I can't even put one on my registry, because she'd be hurt if she saw it, so that's probably $300 down the tubes (pun totally intended).

-Looking at getting used newborn sized cloth diapers for sure - since they get used for such a short period of time - but no clue how to determine what's most likely to fit well before he comes, so I haven't moved on that yet.

Anybody else have thoughts on this? Or a resource online that can help clarify what real evidence there is, or good reasons to toss perfectly good stuff to buy brand new?

lbonga1 · July 2014

The expiration dates are on the carseats for a reason. The materials start to degrade (whether or not you can visually tell), which compromises their safety. Also, unless you personally know the person you are getting a carseat from, you really don't know for sure if it's ever been involved in an accident.

As for the mattresses, the firmness is needed for a newborn to reduce the risk of suffocation and for support for their developing spines. I'd be hesitant to use mattresses that are that old, or as you described "crummy". The crib would be ok, as long as it meets current safety standards, and you get the locks for the drop side.

As you mentioned, the Medela pumps are not meant for multiple users due to not being a closed pump system. Bacteria can grow in the pump motor and other places you can't clean, which could then end up in the pumped milk. I would suggest finding a place that recycles things like that responsibly and getting a pump through your insurance (most insurance companies cover breast pumps 100%).

The cloth diapers are a good choice. I personally use g-diapers for the newborn stage, but I have heard good things about the lil' joeys, and the bum genius newborn diapers. Flats or prefolds and covers would be the cheapest option, which many people use for the newborn stage and beyond too.

Anyway, my main point for my response is to not let your desire to be frugal or "green" get in the way of your child's health or safety. Safety recommendations are there for a reason, not just to get new parents to spend more money than they have to.

punnybunny · July 2014

I've heard rumors that BRU does a trade-in event of expired car seats for some store credit toward an upgrade. I believe it happens in January or February.

I agree with pp that frugality should not come before your child's safety, so please do your research and be aware of the safety and risk factors in using old and used items.

teenybean · July 2014

my skeptical self is totally with you on the car seat, I've read that the dates are really for retailers so they don't sell stuff that's been on the shelf for years (that makes sense since safety standards change and improve) not consumers. The argument goes carseats and belts in actual cars never expire even though they sit in the sun etc. Not advising you here but...I personally wouldn't buy a used car seat myself, but I am still going to use my original infant seat from son #1(we bought new when we had him) which will "expire" when my little one is 6months old. Worst case scenario he's in my "expired" car seat that I've had the whole time (no accidents, good storage etc.) for a couple of months, silly to me to buy another infant carrier for 2-3 months. People may judge away, I'm comfortable with this. A friend suggested that I could have hers that will expire and do the babies-r-us trade in with it for a new one since she's done and then it will at least get recycled we hope. So we'll do that at 6 or so months when that deal comes along to save a little on a convertible at that point. So maybe do the trade in for the used one?

As for the pump, being a nurse I would totally say, skeevy, get a new one. They aren't intended for multiple users. I will be reusing mine, it was new with my first, have for each kid, but we're all the same germ factory (family) and crap does occasionally back up in the tubes, condensation and I've spilled all over that bag numerous time no matter how careful I was. If you get a new one you can use it for all of your kids. You aren't supposed to share between multiple moms,

as far as the matresses etc. If you think they're up to your standards, use them, if not don't feel guilty about recycling or passing them along to others.

Everyusernameistaken · July 2014

teenybean said:
my skeptical self is totally with you on the car seat, I've read that the dates are really for retailers so they don't sell stuff that's been on the shelf for years (that makes sense since safety standards change and improve) not consumers. The argument goes carseats and belts in actual cars never expire even though they sit in the sun etc. Not advising you here but...I personally wouldn't buy a used car seat myself, but I am still going to use my original infant seat from son #1(we bought new when we had him) which will "expire" when my little one is 6months old. Worst case scenario he's in my "expired" car seat that I've had the whole time (no accidents, good storage etc.) for a couple of months, silly to me to buy another infant carrier for 2-3 months. People may judge away, I'm comfortable with this. A friend suggested that I could have hers that will expire and do the babies-r-us trade in with it for a new one since she's done and then it will at least get recycled we hope. So we'll do that at 6 or so months when that deal comes along to save a little on a convertible at that point. So maybe do the trade in for the used one.

Be aware that if you get into an accident with an expired seat, your insurance may not cover it.

teenybean · July 2014

Well regardless, I have until baby is 6 months old to use it anyway, I had one kid who nearly reached the weight limit in an infant carrier by that point anyhow so I will likely do the trade in for the convertible at that point. But I'm not gonna sweat 30 days or something if I'm running late, they don't actually self destruct. And I can certainly check with my insurance on the issue, thanks for the tip @everyusernameistaken.

mrsdanielleM2010 · July 2014

My labor buddy @SingSoftKitty‌ has taught me a TON about car seats, and the best resource she shared was the group Car Seats for the Littles. They have a fb group as well as a blog. Here's their blog on why car seats expire: https://csftl.org/expired-seats/

Also, many states in the US have "proper use" laws which is important to keep in mind. That means that using a car seat outside the parameters of the manual (whether it be expiration, rear facing requirements, no after market products clipped on, etc) is illegal.

Bottom line, in the worst case scenario of an accident, like @Everyusernameistaken‌ said, insurance may not cover you if you used an expired seat. In a really worst case scenario, if you're in a proper use car seat state and you aren't within the parameters, you could have charges filed against you.

This is one area where the risks are just not worth the potential savings.

Ceridwen21 · July 2014

I try to be as green as possible so buy a lot used and was given a lot of hand me downs. The only things I insisted on buying new were: Crib and car seat. I rented a closed-system breast pump, so that wasn't an issue for me.

Things I happily bought or got used: Cloth diapers, clothes, toys, blankets, books, nursing tops, etc.

JustCricket · July 2014

teenybean said:

my skeptical self is totally with you on the car seat, I've read that the dates are really for retailers so they don't sell stuff that's been on the shelf for years (that makes sense since safety standards change and improve) not consumers. The argument goes carseats and belts in actual cars never expire even though they sit in the sun etc. Not advising you here but...I personally wouldn't buy a used car seat myself, but I am still going to use my original infant seat from son #1(we bought new when we had him) which will "expire" when my little one is 6months old. Worst case scenario he's in my "expired" car seat that I've had the whole time (no accidents, good storage etc.) for a couple of months, silly to me to buy another infant carrier for 2-3 months. People may judge away, I'm comfortable with this. A friend suggested that I could have hers that will expire and do the babies-r-us trade in with it for a new one since she's done and then it will at least get recycled we hope. So we'll do that at 6 or so months when that deal comes along to save a little on a convertible at that point. So maybe do the trade in for the used one?

as someone who studied material science and the structural integrity of different materials I can tell you this is absolutely WRONG. Plastic warps and changes in the sun, after x amount of years it will DEFINITELY not have the same structural integrity as it did when it was new, ESPECIALLY if it sits out in the sun. Maybe you should go to a few labs and watch the compare the breaking points of new plastic and plastic that's sat out in the sun.

suitern · July 2014

I agree with the other ladies that two things I would NEVER buy used are a car seat and crib mattress. If you don't know the history of a car seat-being in a crash, how it was treated, were the straps submerged in water, was it checked on an airplane, etc...I would NEVER consider buying it. A very informative group to join is Carseats for the littles on facebook or even just Google some general car seat safety rules and look up using used/expired seats.

I think the other things if you wanted to buy used, as long as they are up to safety standards are fine...just don't compromise the safety of your child because you think you are getting a good deal.

Rannkster · July 2014

Thanks for all the thoughts, ladies! Both car seats were donated to our cause by people we know - I think it would make me too nervous to take one from a stranger due to the potential doubts about its history. I've resigned myself to buying a new one (and hopefully finding a compatible stroller on CL to satisfy my cheap side!).

Both mattresses were minimally used, and appear perfectly fine, still firm, but since the bassinet one will be used for his very first months, and that one came from a stranger via CL, I think I'll be replacing it with a new organic one. Ditto the breast pump, but I'll get a Hygeia, which is designed to be re-used and which at least the company will take back when you're done with it to refurbish/recycle. Sigh. And then start saving for college :-)

mrsdanielleM2010 · July 2014

Also, just to add this - I know you're coming from a green POV not necessarily a saving $ POV. It is unfortunate that these things expire so the least wasteful route would probably be a seat like the new Graco 4-ever, which converts from infant seat to toddler seat to high back booster to no back booster and has a 10 year expiration. It doesn't pop in and out of the car like a bucket seat, but pairs well with baby wearing. Just another option.

BabyMayinMarch · July 2014

The only thing on your list I would use is the cloth diapers. I am ALL for used, but not when it compromises safety ie. carseat

amom2four · July 2014

For me, it is not worth skimping and buying a used car seat. I also follow the car seats for the littles fb page and have gotten wonderful info from there. Totally recommend checking out their blog and/fb.

Eta there is also a fb group called car seat deals and they talk about good deals on car seats going around. It is also rumored to be the time of year that stores are starting to clearance at seats to prep to bring in new models so keep an eye out for good deals on seats for your older kiddos too!

teenybean · July 2014

Does anyone actually have a reference that specifies the laws regarding expirations especially state by state? This is the actual thing that makes me skeptical...I cannot for the life of me find anything other than vague factory/store reccomendation and rumors not to use beyond 6-10 years beyond manufacture date depending on model.
I would love to have this succinct info. It would kill the speculation instantly.
For the record, I have not and most likely will not use it expired, but for argument sake...does everyone just get a new one with each kid? Was I crazy to reuse with the first 2?
it wasn't and still isn't expired yet.

I totally understand that stuff wears out and certainly wouldn't buy used or use something that was much older, I get that stuff changes.

Plastics experts.... and @JustCricket‌ how come we don't have to change out car parts too? Shouldn't that be part of routine maintenance if this is such a hazard. I'm actually curious...no snark intended.

JustCricket · July 2014

teenybean said:

Does anyone actually have a reference that specifies the laws regarding expirations especially state by state? This is the actual thing that makes me skeptical...I cannot for the life of me find anything other than vague factory/store reccomendation and rumors not to use beyond 6-10 years beyond manufacture date depending on model. I would love to have this succinct info. It would kill the speculation instantly. For the record, I have not and most likely will not use it expired, but for argument sake...does everyone just get a new one with each kid? Was I crazy to reuse with the first 2? it wasn't and still isn't expired yet. I totally understand that stuff wears out and certainly wouldn't buy used or use something that was much older, I get that stuff changes. Plastics experts.... and @JustCricket‌ how come we don't have to change out car parts too? Shouldn't that be part of routine maintenance if this is such a hazard. I'm actually curious...no snark intended.

hahah in no way am I a plastics expert.. but to answer your question... we do change out car parts? I mean what parts are you talking about because last time I checked I do! Car seats are tested to last a certain lifetime... just like car parts are. So that's why after x amount of miles/years you replace your tires and your filters and your hoses and gaskets... I could keep going.

eta- as for resuing my own car seat... OF course I will as long as it's not expired... if it's expired or if I'm in a car accident, the seat is replaced

mrsdanielleM2010 · July 2014

@teenybean‌ LMGTFY https://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/childsafety_laws.html This is a summary of seat belt and car seat requirements by state. Expiration dates vary by seat and manufacturer. They are not rumors or vague, they are based on what the manufacturer can guarantee and stamped or stickers do to each seat. Guidelines are in the manuals. Longer expiration dates are a factor in which car seats we choose because like you, I don't want to waste money or resources. As for the legality of using expired seats, there isn't a list of which states require or stipulate proper use. I know NY does, but that's only because I live here.

teenybean · July 2014

@JustCricket‌...ahh the Internet and wording things...now I sound like a complete moron! Lol! No of course we do car maintenance but I meant for safety parts. Why is it that car seats require frequent replacement but safety belts and the like that come standard in the vehicle do not? I would imagine that in the 4.5 years or so we've had our car seat it's been in much better conditions than that of my car, so it seems like replacing safer belts and seat cushions would be inherently prudent for the same reasons and we should see little packets of replacement belts all over the place.

And sorry for the thread jack...but inquiring minds want to know

dinodna3 · July 2014

PP have covered a lot but in regards to used furniture. Always remember to treat the pieces for bed bugs. Especially if you do not know where the furniture came from. My IL's house got infested from a dresser she bought at a local thrift store.

teenybean · July 2014

@mrsdanielleM2010‌ thanks for the link I'll check it out. What does LMGTFY mean?

JustCricket · July 2014

teenybean said:

@JustCricket‌...ahh the Internet and wording things...now I sound like a complete moron! Lol! No of course we do car maintenance but I meant for safety parts. Why is it that car seats require frequent replacement but safety belts and the like that come standard in the vehicle do not? I would imagine that in the 4.5 years or so we've had our car seat it's been in much better conditions than that of my car, so it seems like replacing safer belts and seat cushions would be inherently prudent for the same reasons and we should see little packets of replacement belts all over the place. And sorry for the thread jack...but inquiring minds want to know

Yes you should be replacing your seat belts but if I remember correctly it's more like every 10 years or so, depending on your car (eta- it looks like it could be 20 years, either way they're ALSO tested to know when you should replace them). I also remember reading that if you're in an accident you should have your seatbelts replaced. I'd have to google to find the sources though. So you'll have to bear with me until I find said links.

mrsdanielleM2010 · July 2014

teenybean said:

@JustCricket‌...ahh the Internet and wording things...now I sound like a complete moron! Lol! No of course we do car maintenance but I meant for safety parts. Why is it that car seats require frequent replacement but safety belts and the like that come standard in the vehicle do not? I would imagine that in the 4.5 years or so we've had our car seat it's been in much better conditions than that of my car, so it seems like replacing safer belts and seat cushions would be inherently prudent for the same reasons and we should see little packets of replacement belts all over the place. And sorry for the thread jack...but inquiring minds want to know

The difference between what a child body can handle and what an adult body can handle are so different due to ossification of our bones. Also, an adult is presumed to have the ability to decide risk for his or her self, where a child requires a more stringent level of protection since others make the decisions for them. When older cars are used with kids in them, if they don't have things like a locking safety belt, it is recommended that the car be retrofitted.

mrsdanielleM2010 · July 2014

teenybean said:

@mrsdanielleM2010‌ thanks for the link I'll check it out. What does LMGTFY mean?

Let me google that for you.

amom2four · July 2014

Seat belts in cars are actually recommended to be inspected after accidents and are also recommended to be replaced every so often. It's like 20 years or something because they have been tested to be able to withstand usage for a certain amount of time without breaking down.

I am reusing my dd's car seat and see no problem with reusing a seat as long as it is in good working condition. I will be using it as a back up for dh's car because I found a screaming deal on a new travel system while looking for a stroller ($44) can't pass that up! If cost concerns anyone, there are really good seats for very reasonable prices now.

I do really suggest going on the car seats for the littles blog page and they have links and flyers that will answer many of your questions about plastic breakdown and proper use states.

conradraging · July 2014

I'm reusing my sister's infant car seat but only because it was manufactured less than 2 years ago, was used only by my nephew, and I can completely trust that it hasn't been in an accident or anything. If you know the source, and know that it's not too old, there's nothing wrong with it. I will however be sure to buy a brand new convertible car seat when the time comes because that will need to last longer.

As for mattresses, it skeeves me out to use a mattress other people have slept on so I'm applying the same rule for baby. The crib itself wouldn't bother me as long as it is safe.

And clothes and cloth dipes just should be sanitized before using them and then no problem.

amom2four · July 2014

@SweetTurnip‌ I actually learned that from a relative restoring a classic car but have seen on the car seat page as well. So much good advice my h thinks I'm nuts now.

I feel like a lot of things are safe to reuse or get second hand with exceptions of safety. But in my book safety concerns are included in furniture. I have horror stories about a used electronic item infested with those little f-ing cockroaches being brought into my house by my ex-h while I was in Louisiana. I'm talking the stuff nightmares are made of. So now mattresses and items that are soft and can't be properly sanitized freak me out. (Not just the roaches, I'm so scared of the whole bed bug issue. *shivers*)

teenybean · July 2014

Okay I actually got a call back from the office of traffic safety in California. So there is no legal requirement, in California. According to them its individually designated by each carseat company based on their testing standards in order to comply with their warranties and safety standard. So in short contact your user manual/ manufacturer. Cool I like the clarification. So it's self regulated.

I have actually googled said govt websites suggested many times, but that's the point you never see expiration info on there...but now I have a bit more clarification.

Thanks ladies

JustCricket · July 2014

teenybean said:

Okay I actually got a call back from the office of traffic safety in California. So there is no legal requirement, in California. According to them its individually designated by each carseat company based on their testing standards in order to comply with their warranties and safety standard. So in short contact your user manual/ manufacturer. Cool I like the clarification. So it's self regulated. I have actually googled said govt websites suggested many times, but that's the point you never see expiration info on there...but now I have a bit more clarification. Thanks ladies

you may want to look into your insurance.... they may not cover injuries incurred from using an expired car seat (and by expired I mean what the carseat manufacturer marks as expired on their product)

teenybean · July 2014

I have until June of 2015 with my current seat. I will run out on May 31, 2015 buy a new one and install it posthaste. Incorrectly of course

I just wanted to clarify all of this stuff...I have no intention of harming my child, violating laws or jeopardizing my insurance situation or recommending that anyone else do so either. I'm a thinker and like facts.

bainidhedub · July 2014

Is anyone aware of any reason not to use an old Pack N Play? Apparently my mom saved one from when she had a home daycare... Which she stopped in 2000. Aside from obvious defects (torn screen, sides not locking, mold, recall) is there anything to worry about?

bainidhedub · July 2014

SingSoftKitty said:

bainidhedub said:

Is anyone aware of any reason not to use an old Pack N Play? Apparently my mom saved one from when she had a home daycare... Which she stopped in 2000. Aside from obvious defects (torn screen, sides not locking, mold, recall) is there anything to worry about?

Some have been recalled due to sides not staying up or things like that so I would check the brand and model if you can find that info for recalls. Otherwise, I would think it's fine.

Eta: Duh, I now see where you mentioned recall already lol. So if it hasn't been recalled then I can't think of any reason not to use it. I would just get some sheets for it

----why u fail, quotebox?----

Thanks! They don't seem like the actual play yards have really changed any - they're just smaller than I remember from elem/middle school, and having 2 or 3 set up in the living room.

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