Everyday Sexism/Discrimination

sister13 · July 2014

I'm curious - what examples of sexism and/or discrimination against women do you see in the world? This can be something that happens often, occasionally, once - in the workplace, on the street, in the media. Maybe it happened to you personally, something prevalent in your profession, or just bothers you when you have heard about it?

Feel free to talk about big, huge topics, like the Hobby Lobby decision, or equal pay, but at the moment, I'm a little more curious about some of the "smaller" types of things. I'm going to list two examples in the thread that are recently bothering me.

As is brought up often in these discussions - while I don't believe any of these "little" topics are a hill for women to die on and scream from the rooftops, I personally think they ARE part of a general pattern of dismissal or non-consideration of women in certain situations and I think they do, mostly, get swept under the rug and dismissed as not important in light of the biggest issues.

What do you think, what examples or comments can you share?

sister13 · July 2014

1. World Cup Soccer Stats Erase The Sport's Most Dominant Players: Women

tl;dr summary/intro: please stop announcing that Landon Donovan is the "all-time U.S. leading goal scorer." He is not. With 57 international goals, he's not even in the Top Five.

The all-time U.S. leading goal scorer is Abby Wambach, with 167 goals, followed by Mia Hamm (158), Kristine Lilly (130), Michelle Akers (105) and Tiffeny Milbrett (100). In fact, Abby Wambach is the all-time leading goal scorer in the world, among all soccer players, male or female.

2. Apple Will Engrave 'Penis' on Your iPad but Not 'Vagina' or 'Clit'

I think the title mostly says it all. It pisses me off that somewhere along the line, someone decided penis and dick were ok but vagina, pussy and clit were to be censored. WTF?

KingLED · July 2014

TV commercials.

This one makes me stabby because it just enforces the "dads can't take care of the house/kids and it's clearly a womans job" type feeling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHw0-QaGYVs

[Deleted User] · July 2014

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DaikokuJess · July 2014

I could write a book here, but I'll stick to one...

When I have a conversation like this:
"How was your weekend?"
"Great! I spend the weekend (insert some home improvement task)."
"Oh, I didn't know your H knew how to do stuff like that"
"He doesn't. I did it."
"By yourself? How??"

I hate it when people assume that vaginas gets in the way of doing things.
Or... as @EllyD14 's video alludes: when people assume that penises make a man too dumb and bumbling to deal with children or "domestic" tasks.
Damn genitals are always so unaccommodating.

::steps off soap box::

sister13 · July 2014

I'm not sure the link - but in the media, when interviewing women CEOs - women are asked things like "can you do this with your family" or "how will you balance work and family life?"

It's not that that is such a bad question, but it is only asked of women. For men, they talk about the business! This happened recently with Matt Lauer but happens for businesswomen and elected/appointed government officials all the time.

There was also a recent new head coach press release somewhere. In the first sentence, it said something like "Jane Doe, who is married with two kids, recently accepted x position." THEN, it went on to talk about her professional history. Almost all announcements of male coaches talk about the new position, the coach's history & accomplishments, with a final sentence at the end that mentions the family.

Now, this one above, is definitely also a homophobia in sports issues, but also sexist in that women have to be identified in a family role, before covering the topic at hand.

kwicks · July 2014

First- I was a Sociology major in college, so I could go on and on about this stuff.

I'm with you @DaikokuJess- I do ALL the home improvment stuff in my house, everything from installing irrigatioin drip lines to repairing the attic stairs. Everyone is in awe and suprised at the things I do on the weekend, because by my physical apperance you wouldn't think I'd be into that. But that's just it- I don't know why society has the idea that you can't be pretty, feminine, and handle business at the same time.

Another issue currently in the media spotlight that has been bothering me is the wage inequity in this country between men and women. Why are we still discussing this, and not actually doing more about it? What pisses me off the most about th subject is the denial of the truth.

When I discuss this topic with men, they often deny that women make less than men for doing the same work- I think it's 77 cents to the dollar now? Often, the man people will say it's just "NPR Liberal bullshit". Yes, please deny decades of socioeconomical analysis, just so you can maintain the satus quo.

It. Makes. Me. So. Mad.

ETA- words. Women can maintain the status quo just as men can.

kwicks · July 2014

sister13 said:

I'm not sure the link - but in the media, when interviewing women CEOs - women are asked things like "can you do this with your family" or "how will you balance work and family life?"

It's not that that is such a bad question, but it is only asked of women. For men, they talk about the business! This happened recently with Matt Lauer but happens for businesswomen and elected/appointed government officials all the time.

There was also a recent new head coach press release somewhere. In the first sentence, it said something like "Jane Doe, who is married with two kids, recently accepted x position." THEN, it went on to talk about her professional history. Almost all announcements of male coaches talk about the new position, the coach's history & accomplishments, with a final sentence at the end that mentions the family.

Now, this one above, is definitely also a homophobia in sports issues, but also sexist in that women have to be identified in a family role, before covering the topic at hand.

It's as though a man's professional identity comes first in the workplace, a woman's comes second, after her personal/familial identity. Can't we be all things equally? I want to be known for my contribution in the workplace just as much as I want to be known for being a kick-ass wife/mother/sister/daughter. I want it all. And, I think women can have it all- men do.

BabyCowbell · July 2014

As I'm getting older I tend to notice this stuff more and get more annoyed by it. I also watched Miss.Representation on Netflix not too long ago so it's more on my mind.

I get annoyed that the media seems to want to put women in two categories, either your're bitchy or you're slutty/ditzy. Along those lines, some random dude called me a bitch when I didn't respond to his overly sexual flirting in the way he wanted. I guess I was supposed to giggle and bounce around and being excited he was interested in me. Instead I just smiled and walked away and got called a bitch.

It also irks me when people say they don't like having a female boss because they're always bitchy. Really? Always? Grrr.

sister13 · July 2014

Yes @BabyCowbell - I had a friend on FB recently post about this.

She lives in a college town and was talking about how, often, if a woman gets catcalled ("hey sexy, blah, blah, blah") - that doesn't always SEEM SO BAD - in and of itself - but the comments that follow when a woman doesn't stop and engage are absolutely horrendous and often become decidedly more threatening, sexually graphic and disgusting.

sister13 · July 2014

cramcakes said:

There might be some "Extreme Feminism" going on in here.

Don't forget misandry!

[Deleted User] · July 2014

The user and all related content has been deleted.

createmagic14 · July 2014

I find car buying and car repairs to be awful for this. They always try to sell me something I don't need or want, jack up the price, or talk to me like I'm 5 years old. And always the "do you want to check with your dad or husband (depended on my age or assumed age)?" question. I know what I'm looking for, I understand technical words, I research before I buy, and I can change my own oil, brakes and rotors, so bite me. I don't need a penis to understand cars. Thanks.

BillyHorrible · July 2014

For most things DH and I make joint decisions. Even if it doesn't directly involve the other, we usually check in "Hey, I'm getting new shocks for my car it's going to cost $X - see any problems with doing that now?" or "A invited me to grab a drink after work Thursday, do we have anything planned for that night?" When I mention running something by my husband, it's usually never remarked upon. But 90% of the time when DH mentions running something by me, there's a lot of commentary about his inability to make a decision without checking in with the "little wifey."

catahoulatte · July 2014

sister13 said:

Yes @BabyCowbell - I had a friend on FB recently post about this.
She lives in a college town and was talking about how, often, if a woman gets catcalled ("hey sexy, blah, blah, blah") - that doesn't always SEEM SO BAD - in and of itself - but the comments that follow when a woman doesn't stop and engage are absolutely horrendous and often become decidedly more threatening, sexually graphic and disgusting.

This exactly. It's horrible. I once had a guy wink at me at a concession stand for a sporting event. I nodded and turned away. He said "excuse me!" I turned around and raised my eyebrow, thinking he was going to joke with me. He gestured at me to lift up my shirt. I flicked him off and said "Fucking pig"-not loudly, but just enough that I guess he read my lips and I walked out of line back to my seat. He berated me as I walked away, calling me a stupid fucking bitch and every word under the sun, and not a person in line had the guts to stop him. That was probably 8-9 years ago and it still really bothers me.

Edited for clarity

createmagic14 · July 2014

WhoCanItBeNow said:

createmagic14 said:

I find car buying and car repairs to be awful for this. They always try to sell me something I don't need or want, jack up the price, or talk to me like I'm 5 years old. And always the "do you want to check with your dad or husband (depended on my age or assumed age)?" question. I know what I'm looking for, I understand technical words, I research before I buy, and I can change my own oil, brakes and rotors, so bite me. I don't need a penis to understand cars. Thanks.

They filled your blinker fluid though, right?

Lol. A guy at AutoZone asked me three times if I understood which one was the passengers side low beams. Btw, i had given him the damn PART NUMBER of the headlight I needed. I walked out.

createmagic14 · July 2014

CatahoulaMom said:

sister13 said:

Yes @BabyCowbell - I had a friend on FB recently post about this.
She lives in a college town and was talking about how, often, if a woman gets catcalled ("hey sexy, blah, blah, blah") - that doesn't always SEEM SO BAD - in and of itself - but the comments that follow when a woman doesn't stop and engage are absolutely horrendous and often become decidedly more threatening, sexually graphic and disgusting.

This exactly. It's horrible. I once had a guy wink at me at a concession stand for a sporting event. I nodded and turned away. He said "excuse me!" I turned around and raised my eyebrow, thinking he was going to joke with me. He gestured at me to lift up my shirt. I flicked him off and said "Fucking pig"-not loudly, but just enough that I guess he read my lips and I walked out of line back to my seat. He berated me as I walked away, calling me a stupid fucking bitch and every word under the sun, and not a person in line had the guts to stop him. That was probably 8-9 years ago and it still really bothers me.

Edited for clarity

Too bad there want a cop nearby! I wonder how well the rest of the event would have gone for him if he'd been charged with sexual harassment? Jerk.

catahoulatte · July 2014

createmagic14 said:

CatahoulaMom said:

sister13 said:

Yes @BabyCowbell - I had a friend on FB recently post about this.
She lives in a college town and was talking about how, often, if a woman gets catcalled ("hey sexy, blah, blah, blah") - that doesn't always SEEM SO BAD - in and of itself - but the comments that follow when a woman doesn't stop and engage are absolutely horrendous and often become decidedly more threatening, sexually graphic and disgusting.

This exactly. It's horrible. I once had a guy wink at me at a concession stand for a sporting event. I nodded and turned away. He said "excuse me!" I turned around and raised my eyebrow, thinking he was going to joke with me. He gestured at me to lift up my shirt. I flicked him off and said "Fucking pig"-not loudly, but just enough that I guess he read my lips and I walked out of line back to my seat. He berated me as I walked away, calling me a stupid fucking bitch and every word under the sun, and not a person in line had the guts to stop him. That was probably 8-9 years ago and it still really bothers me.

Edited for clarity

Too bad there want a cop nearby! I wonder how well the rest of the event would have gone for him if he'd been charged with sexual harassment? Jerk.

yeah seriously. I mean, the worst part to me is not even him getting in trouble or not. It's my problem with him seeing women as objects that are solely placed on earth to fulfill his needs (I know, I'm making assumptions here, but the guy was an ass).

sister13 · July 2014

WhoCanItBeNow said:

nettje said:

@FINEdoubleLINE‌ it's amazing how men think we know so little about cars. I had a guy question me about filling up my car once. I have a golf tdi and I pulled up to the diesel pump. "You do know that's diesel, right? Most cars don't take diesel." Yes - I'm quite aware what type of fuel my car takes as I bought it that way.

I plan on my next vehicle being a VW diesel. I look forward to it because I have a fantastic plan for how I'm going to react the first time someone comes running over going "Wait, that's diesel!!!!!!!!"

WCIBN when her plan comes to fruition:

RoastyToasty · July 2014

My job involves a fair amount of physical work, but nothing too extreme (pallet jacks, ladders, fixtures and walls. Etc). I've had to train the people around me NOT to run up and try to help me lift and move things. If I need your help I will ask for it, I am very aware of where my limits are. The issue is that if some guy decides to run up and grab the other half of a ten foot ladder when I'm not expecting it he probably will throw off my balance. It's happened before, and that's when accidents happen.

I have a job to do, a job that I am perfectly capable of handling. I don't need a knight in shining armor running to the rescue whenever something is heavy. I DEFINITELY don't need the comments about "let a man do that for you." Fuck that, you're in my way and slowing me down.

DaikokuJess · July 2014

@estoybarracha I will say that it's great to see people going out of their way to help one another. It doesn't happen enough. I understand the point you are making, but I would argue that when those actions of "kindness" are only directed at women (would that same man run up to a fellow man filling his car with diesel for a friendly warning?), I assume that is comes from the cultural belief in the inequality of men and women. I'm not saying that these people are sexist meanies (except the sick people who are). In fact, I'm sure that from their point of view, they are doing what they think is the right thing to do. Gender equality isn't always necessarily a problem of a world full of blatant sexists, but instead it's a problem of long held and deep-seeded beliefs about the differences between the sexes. I find myself falling into these gender normative beliefs at times.

Also, I LOVE your beagle puppy gif. Looks just like my little man when he was a pup.

DaikokuJess · July 2014

@estoyborracha‌ You're right. I can't make that assumption. Thank you for pointing that out.

Beagles are great!

FitMom3510 · July 2014

I used to work for a cell phone company and I was the senior rep there and had worked there for 8 years. I would get a lot of technical questions from male customers and I would answer them correctly because if I didn't know the answer I would ask. They wouldn't believe me and walk away from me as I was talking and ask one of my male co workers the exact same question, or I would give them an answer and they would say "are you sure, do you maybe want to ask one of them?" Um, no I don't asshat I know what I'm talking about, we are all trained the same and I taught them most of what they know!

divinemsbee · July 2014

@FINEdoubleLINE That made me tear up a bit.

It's also a great example of why the patriarchy is bad for everyone. It's bad for women, but it's also bad for men. Because when we teach boys/men that it's not okay to learn certain things because it's 'woman's work' or we teach that boys should be tough and 'boys don't cry' or 'be a man' it's really limiting. We (as a society, not necessarily the individuals on this board) are encouraging men to think that certain things aren't 'manly' and that they have to prove their manhood.

It's one of those things that makes me kind of scared to raise a boy in today's world. To teach them that it's okay to not be tough. That it's okay to feel things.

Of course, there are many reasons I'm scared to raise a girl as well.

I read this quote by Margaret Atwood the other day, and it really rings true in a sad way: "Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."

ETA: I realized a big thing for me is this quote "There is a world of solitary adventure I will never have." I can't go sleep in the hallway of the Great Pyramid (or equivalent, since no one could really do that now) by myself. I mean, I could, but if something bad happens to me, it's my fault because I should have known that since I'm a woman I have to take more care with my personal safety. Rape culture is real. I like to think it's getting better, that people are working against it, but then you see the girls who get drunk or are drugged with a drink and raped and it never fails that there's at least one 'well, she was drinking, she was asking for it' comment. Because as a woman you must be responsible not only for yourself, but you are solely responsible for the actions of others against you. Rage.

createmagic14 · July 2014

Well, even my dog thought HE could do a better job mowing the lawn today :-)

Sorry, had to share. This thread was actually on my mind while I was mowing, and Max just happened to jump up while it was off and I was putting my headphones on. I laughed so hard, I'm pretty sure my neighbors thought I was nuts!

SpartanChick88 · July 2014

I have been in the maritime industry, both commercial and recreational, for about 10 years now (damn.. really??). The industry is dominated by men and I had to work hard to prove that the little girl had as big a bite as she did bark. 2 of those years I spent lobbying Congress. Again, had to prove myself because of my looks. When a 5'2" 120 lb woman walks into this type of environment it's assumed she doesn't know jack until proven otherwise.

I've also had assumptions made at Lowes. If I say I don't need help lifting a bag of soil or peat moss, don't stand there and wait to see if I swoon. If I needed help I would have said I needed help. I can dead lift more than your ego weighs buddy.

createmagic14 · July 2014

estoyborracha said:

createmagic14 said:

Well, even my dog thought HE could do a better job mowing the lawn today :-)

Sorry, had to share. This thread was actually on my mind while I was mowing, and Max just happened to jump up while it was off and I was putting my headphones on. I laughed so hard, I'm pretty sure my neighbors thought I was nuts!

Too cute. Cattle dog?

Yup! Just turned 1 two weeks ago. Love my Max!

tlc35 · July 2014

avadakedavra said:
I have two doctors in my practice, one man and one woman. People who have not met them will automatically refer to the woman as "him" or "he" because it's a doctor so it's gotta be a man, right? She also has WAY more people who just call her by her first name instead of Dr. Lastname. In the same light, one of our receptionists is a man and is regularly asked on the phone of he is one of the doctors, while our female receptionists are not (or they are asked if they are nurses).

Yes. I have experienced all of this crap in medicine. The last job I applied for 2 women and a man applied for. The man got the job and the doc who was being replaced (a female) told me in private that they treated women very poorly there.

IrisPetals · July 2014

Since I'm insane enough to still be here, I couldn't resist adding my own piece. I actually encounter the complete opposite, with my job being a "woman's world" so to speak & where men are discriminated against.

Massage Therapy has been long seen as a woman's career. It's also seen as the whole "extras" type of gig. I can't tell you how many times I've been asked if women give happy endings. I went to school for 2 yrs & throughout my time, the majority of students were women. I'd say 25% men, if that. In the particular spa I work at, in our massage dept out of 6 therapists, we only have one male. Go to any spa & it's guaranteed to be made up mostly, if not all, of women. For certifications & licenses, men have to go through the same required credentials, they learn the same basic techniques & information that makes them qualified. They keep it just as professional as women do, with the proper amount of draping (keeping client covered with sheet). And when working together at the same spa, they get paid the same as us.

I've literally gotten asked "your male therapist doesn't touch inappropriately does he", because being a male who is professionally massaging, somehow equals sexual intentions. Or they associate a male therapist with physical toughness "I've never had a male therapist but I can't imagine he would have a soft touch". We all learn how to do deep tissue, so gender has nothing to do with strength, nor does gender have anything to do with how light you apply pressure. Even my own DH asked me once, "but I thought female therapists have better hands for massage" b/c he assumed a guy with big hands meant he sucks at massage.

He's had a client refuse to get a massage with him once she saw him - when she booked over the phone she wasn't told what therapist she would be seeing. Clients will call & specifically book with a female. A woman walked in wanting a last minute massage, we were all booked up & our male therapist wasn't. Client actually said "oh no that's ok I'll just come back tomorrow". She never did.

Women are perfectly fine with another woman touching them, but not ok with a professional male therapist. Massage, as professional as we keep it, is definitely an intimate thing, so it's understandable that a client has to be comfortable with someone touching their body when they're pretty much nude lying on a table. However, making the automatic assumption that male therapists are not professional with their touch & boundaries, is just ignorant and sad. I feel sorry for our male therapist, he has a 2nd job because massage doesn't make him enough money when he gets barely half the amount of clients we get. What's worse, his girlfriend also works at our spa, she's been a therapist shorter time than him and yet she gets more work than he does!

DaBearsFansWife · July 2014

IrisPetals said:

Since I'm insane enough to still be here, I couldn't resist adding my own piece. I actually encounter the complete opposite, with my job being a "woman's world" so to speak & where men are discriminated against.

Massage Therapy has been long seen as a woman's career. It's also seen as the whole "extras" type of gig. I can't tell you how many times I've been asked if women give happy endings. I went to school for 2 yrs & throughout my time, the majority of students were women. I'd say 25% men, if that. In the particular spa I work at, in our massage dept out of 6 therapists, we only have one male. Go to any spa & it's guaranteed to be made up mostly, if not all, of women. For certifications & licenses, men have to go through the same required credentials, they learn the same basic techniques & information that makes them qualified. They keep it just as professional as women do, with the proper amount of draping (keeping client covered with sheet). And when working together at the same spa, they get paid the same as us.

I've literally gotten asked "your male therapist doesn't touch inappropriately does he", because being a male who is professionally massaging, somehow equals sexual intentions. Or they associate a male therapist with physical toughness "I've never had a male therapist but I can't imagine he would have a soft touch". We all learn how to do deep tissue, so gender has nothing to do with strength, nor does gender have anything to do with how light you apply pressure. Even my own DH asked me once, "but I thought female therapists have better hands for massage" b/c he assumed a guy with big hands meant he sucks at massage.

He's had a client refuse to get a massage with him once she saw him - when she booked over the phone she wasn't told what therapist she would be seeing. Clients will call & specifically book with a female. A woman walked in wanting a last minute massage, we were all booked up & our male therapist wasn't. Client actually said "oh no that's ok I'll just come back tomorrow". She never did.

Women are perfectly fine with another woman touching them, but not ok with a professional male therapist. Massage, as professional as we keep it, is definitely an intimate thing, so it's understandable that a client has to be comfortable with someone touching their body when they're pretty much nude lying on a table. However, making the automatic assumption that male therapists are not professional with their touch & boundaries, is just ignorant and sad. I feel sorry for our male therapist, he has a 2nd job because massage doesn't make him enough money when he gets barely half the amount of clients we get. What's worse, his girlfriend also works at our spa, she's been a therapist shorter time than him and yet she gets more work than he does!

I personally prefer a male masseuse. I would find it awkward if a female was giving me a massage. I'm super self conscious and I feel like women are much quicker to notice my physical flaws than a male is; professional or not. I would be squirming if I had to think "Is she noticing my stretch marks? Does she mind that I am long overdue for a pedicure? etc" But in my experience, men notice very little when it comes to details like that, which makes me more comfortable and able to relax.

However, when it comes to a doctor, I prefer a female. There's something weird about a person looking at my lady bits. If it has to be done I would like for it to be by someone who also has lady bits.

It's just about my personal comfort level.

divinemsbee · July 2014

It's really funny that you guys are talking about how you prefer a female OB/GYN because it's more comfortable. I've been watching Masters of Sex (really good show) and one of the things that they've dealt with in the show is that there's a new female OB/GYN, the first they've ever had at the hospital, and no women want to go to her for exams (this is set in the early 1960s, I think). The assumption is that there's something wrong with any woman who would want to give another woman a pelvic exam, or any woman who would want to get one from another woman. The male doctors are the trusted ones.

Just another example of how things change, I guess. I just found it interesting.

For the record, I have very little preference sex-wise on who I go to for anything. I have a female RE, but I was fine with getting a guy, she's just who happened to be available for my first appointment and I liked her so I kept seeing her. Chemistry and availability and patience are what I look for.

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Everyday Sexism/Discrimination

Re: Everyday Sexism/Discrimination

1. World Cup Soccer Stats Erase The Sport's Most Dominant Players: Women

2. Apple Will Engrave 'Penis' on Your iPad but Not 'Vagina' or 'Clit'

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