Moms of school-aged kids - how did you get over the school-year calendar shock? (mostly a rant)

jetgrrrl · June 2014

So, yesterday we had kindergarten orientation for our oldest. I knew, and have been steeling myself for, the fact that once my kids started school there would be all the vacation weeks, the summers, the fact that camps don't cover the first and last weeks of summer, etc to contend with.. What I wasn't prepared for was the idea that there are umpteen days where school lets out early - there are literally 7 days in the year when they let out right after lunch (so what's the point!) and every Friday our schools close at 1:40 p.m. Afterschool care as I understand it does cover those days, but frankly I'm horrified and po'ed that there is so much time NOT spent on learning.

I remember when I was in elementary schools we had two teacher workshop days a year. Now they need one a week, plus extras? How are our kids supposed to compete in the global economy when they spend so little time in school? I almost laughed out loud at the parents' part of the orientation where the vice principal was explaining to us how important it is that our kids get to school on time because being ten minutes late here and there over the school year adds up to a lot of lost time. Really? How about shaving an hour off the school week every week?? I guess this is more of a rant than a question but I'm just overwhelmed with how we're going to cover all this time AND I feel that our kids are getting shortchanged by having so many hours sucked out of the school year. Any teachers - I would love to hear how this time is spent and if you truly believe there is a benefit to the kids, because it would make me feel at least a little better.

itsmevkb · June 2014

I agree that there are far too many early dismissal days. In our case, my kids have a longer school day than most schools here (7:40 to 3:15) so they easily meet the state requirement for days/hours of school each year but it seems there are a ton of just days off and days where they get out at 11:30. I hate having to keep track of it. At this point, I'd almost prefer a set thing like every other Friday they get out at 11:30 rather than the randomness we have now.

Our school does have before and after care but we don't use it very often. We're fortunate in that my husband has a pretty flexible schedule so he can pick them up, or, sometimes our babysitter can. When we can't find anyone then we use the after care which adds up quick.

snicksnack · June 2014

this is why when we moved our kids to daycare near our house we chose one with before and after care that takes kids to and from school along with Days off and snow days. It costs more than after care butI don't think I can make aftercare work The whole public school system is inscane to me and I feel bad for my teacher friends who feel like their job is no longer fun due to all the boxes etc.. that have to be checked. Personally I am all for year-round school if they can figure out a way to make it work.

PSU_Texan · June 2014

This is the very reason why we will have to continue having a nanny even with both DDs in school full time. There are too many days off plus summers. I know having a nanny isn't an option for many people, but maybe you can look into a college student that would be willing to pick up or care for them during these strange days off. You might find that to be a better solution all around versus before/after school care. I had a colleague who used a college girl to pick up after school, start homework, take to after school sports/activities and was available for spring break and summers.

kmh2201 · June 2014

I'm not looking forward to finding child care during school vacations/days off for my oldest, who starts kindergarten this fall. I live in Michigan, and there were many school districts that missed almost 2 weeks of school in my area due to snow days. I've already asked my DCP if she would be able to take DS on snow days, and she said she could. (She has teenage daughters who could "watch" him in case she gets a drop-in from the state on one of those days.) I have to make special arrangements with the school for each and every early dismissal day of the year, and it has to be on or after a certain date. Ridiculous. So I plan to have the school calendar at my desk at work, and I'll have reminders on my work calendar so I know when I need to let them know that DS will need child care on the early dimissal days. Which I have to pay extra for. It's already $15/day for before and after care, which I feel is a little high.

jetgrrrl · June 2014

Thanks everyone - particularly b0710 for your perspective as a teacher. I can certainly see where there needs to be some collaborative time during the school year or even week. But geeze, it does seem like some of it could be held during the three-plus weeks off (there's almost two weeks off at Christmas, plus Winter and Spring vacations) that occur during the year.

K3am - I'm all for unstructured time and that's part of why I truly hope to limit the number of activities (although that will go highly against the grain in my area) that my kids are involved in, so that they can have that down time (and we do virtually no screen time so my kids are actually really good at just playing - hope they remain so as they get older). But the reality is in the rest of the world kids are spending far more hours learning than ours are. Also in answer to someone's question - this is NOT just a kindergarten thing, although oddly on the short in-service days they can either be days off for K-6, k-8 or k-12, which means all kids in grades k-6 get the short days, but not all the other grades which makes no sense to me. If anything I would think high school teachers would need more time to keep up with developments in their subject fields.

The reality is we need to figure out whether it makes sense to get a babysitter, use the afterschool program (which does get raves where we live) or a combination of both. I may ask my boss if I can work from home on Fridays and cut my hours back slightly but I have fairly significant responsibility in my organization and I have no idea if that will fly. It just galls me that we are living with a school calendar that was set up to serve a completely different economy - when kids were needed on the farms and by nature of that work parents were at home - and it has not adjusted an iota to fit with the economy we now have, if anything it's gotten worse.

MommaP12 · June 2014

I'm with you.

DS starts kindergarten this fall and their days are 7:55-2:55 and EVERY Wednesday they get out at 1:55.

I am struggling to find after school care as there are not many options in the first place and I'm on the wait list for 2 places. I live in the land of SAHM and Nannys apparently and that's just not going to happen for us, so I really hope something opens up for us in the next couple of months. We are #16 on one waitlist! Hello town, maybe that's a sign more should be offered?!

DS will get the day before Thanksgiving off too, ugh. All these extra days are going to be a real challenge for us too so I feel you.

MrsKAT11 · June 2014

There are such differences between states. My school in NJ does not have much time off. This year, we had 5 early dismissals for professional development and 8 whole days built into the schedule for PD. Of those 8 full days, 5 were before the kids began the school year/after the year ended. We only get a long weekend for "Spring Break" and our holiday recess was 9 days (7 school days). This is typical for us and our "Spring Break" was not affected by snow days because there was no extra to take from, we are making them all up now in June. I imagine that it is difficult for parents to plan for childcare, but it is also difficult to plan for childcare ourselves as school employees. Our PD days are completely different hours than my typical day and always involves a juggling act for getting my son to the sitter and picked up again. State mandates are a necessary evil and I do feel my district makes a strong effort to minimize the days off for students *Sorry for lack of formatting mobile bumping

litzo27 · June 2014

Frankly, I think our kids spend too much time in school. My kindergartener was in school from 8:30 to 3pm this year (and was in after-school care after that) and at his age I was still in preschool!
I went to school in another country (one who was extremely competitive in terms of the global education scores, when I was in school at least) and not only was my school day 8-2 but the school year was September 1 to 3rd week of May. However, the hours spent in the classroom were so much better utilized that when I came to the U.S. in 8th grade I was shocked that my classmates were learning math and science that was taught to me in 6th grade or earlier. So I really don't think extra hours are what's going to make a difference in quality of education.
That said, are the missed days a hassle for working parents? Sure. Thankfully, my extended day program (in school) takes care of them - if they didn't I would hire a college student or another type of back-up sitter.

dashofreality · June 2014

I have no opinion as I don't have school age kids, but one of my biggest parenting shocks is that I am considering other options than public school. Before kids I was pretty adamant that my kids would go to public school, and now I am not so sure.

welly01 · June 2014

dashofreality said:

I have no opinion as I don't have school age kids, but one of my biggest parenting shocks is that I am considering other options than public school. Before kids I was pretty adamant that my kids would go to public school, and now I am not so sure.

We are in a similar situation. We hear the ridiculous stories that our friends with school age kids tell and DH and I just don't think we could tolerate dealing with public school. Although for us, paying for private school would reduce how much we could afford for college, so I go back and forth a lot. Thankfully I've still got a lot of time before DS starts school.

emberlee3 · June 2014

A friend of mine who grew up in poverty views school closures through a very different lens. She brought up the sad fact that many U.S. children rely on their school days for meals and heat/air conditioning, since they may not have reliable access to those otherwise.

mlee116 · June 2014

I totally get both sides of this rant. DH is a teacher and I love that he has lots of breaks and that our kids will have breaks. Like K3am and others have said, I think breaks are important. They allow for rest and and for kids to have some unstructured time to pursue things outside of school. They have a few week long breaks and some random days off, but they don't do many half-days. I think its because 1) its a pain to coordinate transportation 2) a lot of parents hate it 3) its hard on the teachers who have kids 4) it just makes things more chaotic.

That being said, I also see how its hard for parents to make arrangements. Right now it works out fine for us because DS is in DC so if DH has a work day, he just takes him like usual or if its a break, he takes him part of the day or keeps him at home. The tricky time will come when DS is in school but DH has work days. I don't know what we'll do but it's still at least 2 years away so we'll figure it out then.

DH is busy during these days off! They have a ton of professional development workshops and meetings they go to. He also uses a lot of this time to wrap up grading because he has almost no time to do it during the day. Also, his classes may change from year to year (he teaches HS social studies), so he has to plan or update his lesson plans and collaborates with his coworkers to improve classes.

DiveFrog · June 2014

jetgrrrl said:

Thanks everyone - particularly b0710 for your perspective as a teacher. I can certainly see where there needs to be some collaborative time during the school year or even week. But geeze, it does seem like some of it could be held during the three-plus weeks off (there's almost two weeks off at Christmas, plus Winter and Spring vacations) that occur during the year.

K3am - I'm all for unstructured time and that's part of why I truly hope to limit the number of activities (although that will go highly against the grain in my area) that my kids are involved in, so that they can have that down time (and we do virtually no screen time so my kids are actually really good at just playing - hope they remain so as they get older). But the reality is in the rest of the world kids are spending far more hours learning than ours are. Also in answer to someone's question - this is NOT just a kindergarten thing, although oddly on the short in-service days they can either be days off for K-6, k-8 or k-12, which means all kids in grades k-6 get the short days, but not all the other grades which makes no sense to me. If anything I would think high school teachers would need more time to keep up with developments in their subject fields.

The reality is we need to figure out whether it makes sense to get a babysitter, use the afterschool program (which does get raves where we live) or a combination of both. I may ask my boss if I can work from home on Fridays and cut my hours back slightly but I have fairly significant responsibility in my organization and I have no idea if that will fly. It just galls me that we are living with a school calendar that was set up to serve a completely different economy - when kids were needed on the farms and by nature of that work parents were at home - and it has not adjusted an iota to fit with the economy we now have, if anything it's gotten worse.

It's frustrating to me too, but it's hard to know what the solution is. I mean we could run the schools like daycare centers and expect they run year round, with a constant start and end time, before and aftercare. Just not sure that's what's best for kids, and I have no idea how we would fund it since it seems as if it is impossible to get additional school funding.

But, even then we still have the issue of weather/snow days. And more importantly for me anyway, is everything I learned and experienced during summers as a kid. Different camps, and activities, classes and travel that would not have been possible if I had been going to school year round. I will admit it was costly and a royal pain in the neck for my parents to schedule, but I really learned just as much if not more from those experiences outside the classroom as what I did inside a classroom.

jetgrrrl · June 2014

So for those thinking about private school as an option, I think there are great reasons to choose private school (if you can afford it) but I'm not sure you do any better on the calendar end of things. The private schools near us charge extra for care outside the school day (which I believe may be slightly longer than public school) and they still have all the vacations. Charter schools around here as I understand it do have less time off.

So my mom was a SAHM until I was like 12 and even then she took clerical jobs under the condition that she be available to us after school (she may have ended work at 3 or 4, I can't quite remember). My sister and I didn't even do camp in the summer - I had no experience with camp until I was a counselor at a day camp (to this day one of my favorite jobs ever) starting from the time I was 12. I wish I could give my kids the luxruy of those long hours of riding their bikes, READING (I think I went to the library three times a week), hanging out in somebody's pool etc. But the reality is I am going to have to pay out of pocket for structured experiences for my kids because I can't be at home and available to them all day. I agree that school 52 weeks a year would be too much, but I feel like, maybe summer vacation could be six weeks instead of ten so that most of September doesn't have to be spent on review? Anyway, this country shows little appetite for investing more money in K-12 education (not to mention higher education) so I don't see the situation changing any time soon. Thanks to everyone for the great discussion and viewpoints!

jetgrrrl · June 2014

amy052006 : Actually I am expected to work on weekends regularly (for example, I had a 9 p.m. conference call that went until 10:30 last Friday night, and then I came in to work Saturday afternoon into the evening); I have had to respond to email and make phone calls related to work on Christmas Day and New Year's Day and on most days off and on my vacation I'm expected to check in at least once a day to respond to urgent emails. And obviously, as someone who isn't a teacher, I have to work during school vacation weeks. It's just reality for people who aren't teachers. I'm not saying teachers don't work hard or don't need breaks, but those of us who are not teachers are typically working more than 40 hours a week and many of us are on call 24-7 thanks to email and smartphones.

dashofreality · June 2014

amy052006 said:

jetgrrrl said:

Thanks everyone - particularly b0710 for your perspective as a teacher. I can certainly see where there needs to be some collaborative time during the school year or even week. But geeze, it does seem like some of it could be held during the three-plus weeks off (there's almost two weeks off at Christmas, plus Winter and Spring vacations) that occur during the year.

Yup -- screw those teachers with kids. I wonder how you would respond to your boss telling you to get together an collaborate over the holidays or your vacation?

IDK -- I am sort of surprised it never crossed your mind to you this would eb a thing.

??? I get 3 weeks of vacation a year if I include all of the holidays. I've had to work over holidays. The Government loves to drop proposals before they leave for vacation. Industry then has to work. It happens a lot.

I'm not trying to play woe is me, but I don't think it is a mean and horrible suggestion that teachers could possibly do some in-service days over spring break. Spring break isn't a holiday.

dashofreality · June 2014

auroraloo said:

dashofreality said:

amy052006 said:

jetgrrrl said:

??? I get 3 weeks of vacation a year if I include all of the holidays. I've had to work over holidays. The Government loves to drop proposals before they leave for vacation. Industry then has to work. It happens a lot.
I'm not trying to play woe is me, but I don't think it is a mean and horrible suggestion that teachers could possibly do some in-service days over spring break. Spring break isn't a holiday.

I'm lurking because I'm going back to work, but this is bull shit. I bet your two weeks of vacation every year are paid as well. And I bet that your salary reflects the work you do, and the fact that you work year round. Yes, teachers are off for breaks and all summer, but that "vacation" time is unpaid.

Teachers don't. Their salary is reflective of working 175-185 days a year. If you want them to work more, year round, or on breaks like Winter or Spring, then you have to adjust their compensation accordingly.

I'm unclear how having 5 of those workdays be scattered randomly throughout the school year vs. having some of those workdays be when the kids have a break changes anything. You will still be working the exact same number of days, the only difference is when they fall.

But yes, since I am not a teacher and do not have a spring break, I do not treat it as a holiday or any different then any other week.

I am not saying teachers should work more, nor am I saying teachers do not work hard. I am saying that a lot of random days off during the school year are a challenge, and I'm not convinced they are necessary.

MommaP12 · June 2014

Let's not turn this into a teachers versus other careers thread for the love of God. Every career has its drawbacks. Maybe you are unpaid for 3 months in the summer and will never make buckets of money. Maybe you travel for work and miss your kids. Maybe you work 60+ hours a week and wish you could see your kids more. We all have "something" but we all chose to work in what we work in for the most part.

dashofreality · June 2014

auroraloo said:

dashofreality said:

auroraloo said:

dashofreality said:

amy052006 said:

jetgrrrl said:

Ah! Ok, that wasn't clear to me.

Part of the reality is that scattering them allows for PLCs (data-driven teacher groups that work on interventions for students) to focus on issues for students that come up during the year. And before almost every break in the districts I've worked in is a teacher day, so they are on the breaks often.

I'm not going to defend all the days, because believe me, a bunch of them are a pain in the ass where you're doing nothing but listening to some district dude tell us all about initiative [insert educational catchphrase here].

And the OP may have only had 1 or 2 days for teachers as a kid, but the school funding wasn't quite as high stakes when we were kids.

In some fairness, I probably wasn't that clear because I was rubbed the wrong way a bit by the slight implication that teacher's with kids deserve that time off with their kids.

I do feel bad for teachers with all the BS paperwork and testing that has been piled on. I at one point wanted to teach, but with the way teachers are treated now, it is not appealing to me. And while I don't think that schools should revolve around working parents, it is a reality, and some consideration would be nice.

mlee116 · June 2014

MommaP12 said:

Let's not turn this into a teachers versus other careers thread for the love of God. Every career has its drawbacks. Maybe you are unpaid for 3 months in the summer and will never make buckets of money. Maybe you travel for work and miss your kids. Maybe you work 60+ hours a week and wish you could see your kids more. We all have "something" but we all chose to work in what we work in for the most part.

I agree. I mean you can go on all day with comparisons. And maybe I'm wrong, but I think that @jetgrrrls situation is a little different from most other people. I can't imagine many people having to check email during holidays or vacation.

Yes DH gets a lot of time off during the year, but he's not sitting on a beach somewhere the whole time. He has work days that are required and a lot that aren't required. Also, there are a lot of after school functions he's required to attend or chaperone, like games, graduation, prom that he's not compensated for. He also gets a 20 minute lunch break and that's it for the whole day. There are definitely trade-offs but that's the career he chose.

I also agree with @amy. Yes, it stinks that its hard for parents to make arrangements, but its not the school's responsibility to provide childcare. And every parent has a different situation, so its impossible for them to work around everyone.

SpringtimeMomma · June 2014

In order to accommodate the one-hour early dismissal once per week, my district starts school 5 minutes earlier each day (gain of 25 minutes per week) and the passing periods between classes are each one minute shorter (gain of 35 minutes per week). The students do not lose any instructional time. Since you sound concerned about your child missing out on instructional minutes, you may want to contact the district and ask about the schedule.

jetgrrrl · June 2014

amy052006: I actually do know some good teachers and at least one of them had to quit because she worked so much and her spouse had a very high stress, long-hours job and she couldn't be the teacher and mom she wanted to be given her spouse's work. So yes, I do understand that good teachers often work long hours during the school year so I apologize if my answer overlooked that. I also think in general teachers should be paid far better than they are and I think there is much too much emphasis on standardized testing and evaluating teachers. We've all had bad teachers and (hopefully) we've all had great teachers - I'm not sure that testing a class manages to identify either. But anyway, the point of my previous post to you was only that I am in fact expected to work on what would be considered days off, which you suggested was unfair but my point was it's reality.

shannm · June 2014

kmh2201 said:
I'm not looking forward to finding child care during school vacations/days off for my oldest, who starts kindergarten this fall. I live in Michigan, and there were many school districts that missed almost 2 weeks of school in my area due to snow days. I've already asked my DCP if she would be able to take DS on snow days, and she said she could. (She has teenage daughters who could "watch" him in case she gets a drop-in from the state on one of those days.) I have to make special arrangements with the school for each and every early dismissal day of the year, and it has to be on or after a certain date. Ridiculous. So I plan to have the school calendar at my desk at work, and I'll have reminders on my work calendar so I know when I need to let them know that DS will need child care on the early dimissal days. Which I have to pay extra for. It's already $15/day for before and after care, which I feel is a little high.

I would make sure the other parents are ok with her being out of ratio on those days. It is disrespectful to make that assumption.

TheBorg7of9 · June 2014

Why can't they make the school day start later and end later. 9-5 instead of 7:30 to 3 or something. That's my question

shannm · June 2014

To answer OP's question... DS attends a private school. Full day kindergarten. Free before care with a drop off as early as 7:30. Fee for service aftercare till six. We use both services. They also are kind enough to offer "vacation care" on many days when school is closed for teacher in service events. This is a HUGE help. Yes, I have to pay for it but it would be great if other schools could follow this model and be an option for working parents. I really think that is the issue, that schools in general are not family friendly environments that recognize that many households have two working-outside-the-home parents. Or single parents for that matter. So I'm not saying that they need more school hours but more options to support the families of their students. It could totally be community driven, parent driven, etc.. For us it becomes an inconvenience to cover the days but there are many folks out there that NEED it. I think the private school is good at this because they recognize that in order for people to afford them, they need to work. Then for those weeks early in summer and late in summer...well it eats our vacation weeks. Spring break eats more vacation weeks. Then winter break eats even more. Such is life. In the future, I will consider sending DS to his friend's house for the day or flying in a gma to help. We also have college aged contacts that can in theory help in a pinch. And because I work nights and weekends for no extra pay, I am aggressive asking for personal days when I need them.

fitmom82 · June 2014

I'm not sure if your concern is a lack of childcare, which is not the purpose of school, or a lack of an education. I'm speaking as a teacher who is paid to work 186 days a year. If you want teachers to come in during spring break, then accept that school may get out a day earlier. You compare what it was like when you went to school, but I don't know of anyone who had full day kindergarden 25 years ago, now they pretty much all are. I also think breaks from school and time off can be very beneficial and educational for children. We do lots of experiences during school breaks that they wouldn't get while at school. We just went to the Bahamas where they got to experience another culture, we've done children's museum, Crayola Factory, unstructured play and socialization at parks, nature walks, ect. Children can and should do a ton of learning outside of school. I dread the day my LOs start getting homework and will definetly complain if they're not able to get out and play at all. I believe that experiences and having to problem solve real world situation is the best learning.

skibunny59 · June 2014

This post is just ridiculous. It is not the school's job to offer childcare for your child. The purpose of school is to teach your child. I realize it must be a huge inconvenience but such is life. More school hours/school days does not necessarily equal a better education in my opinion.

skibunny59 · June 2014

TheBorg7of9 said: Why can't they make the school day start later and end later. 9-5 instead of 7:30 to 3 or something. That's my question 8 hours is a really long school day. My school starts at 9 and ends at 3:30. Even then, the little kindergarteners and 1st graders are pretty tired by the end of the day. You really can't expect kids to focus for 8 hours a day. Much of that time would be a waste educationally and would just serve the purpose of keeping kids in school so that working parents wouldn't have to worry about them. An 8 hour school day from 9-5 would be more convenient for some working parents but wouldn't be better for the kids. By the time some of my kids get off the bus it is almost 4. If school ended at 5, kids wouldn't have any time to play or do any activities after school. That would be pretty sad.

shannm · June 2014

cjcouple said:

I just can't with this. Library chic, exactly how old are your kids? I can't believe you actually think kid are not learning enough material in school currently with the effin ccs garbage? kids today are working many levels ahead of when we went through schools. just because you went full day doesn't mean it was enriching. K students must begin (not only) reading, but comprehending and reflection on the material before they accelerate. My 2nd grader started the fundamentals of multiplication last year in first grade. If you honesty think your kid(s) are not learning enough in school today than you have a horrible school. my kids come home wiped out. and many of my friends kids as well. they work hard. they do get movies, crafts and holiday parties.

I didn't interpret her post like that at all….

And FWIW, I went to full day Kindy uh….cough…uh a few years ago and was only recently introduced to the concept of half days when I moved to this district which was a move they made to save money, not to benefit the kids.

mlee116 · June 2014

LibraryChica said:

fitmom82 said:
I'm not sure if your concern is a lack of childcare, which is not the purpose of school, or a lack of an education. I'm speaking as a teacher who is paid to work 186 days a year. If you want teachers to come in during spring break, then accept that school may get out a day earlier. You compare what it was like when you went to school, but I don't know of anyone who had full day kindergarden 25 years ago, now they pretty much all are. I also think breaks from school and time off can be very beneficial and educational for children. We do lots of experiences during school breaks that they wouldn't get while at school. We just went to the Bahamas where they got to experience another culture, we've done children's museum, Crayola Factory, unstructured play and socialization at parks, nature walks, ect. Children can and should do a ton of learning outside of school. I dread the day my LOs start getting homework and will definetly complain if they're not able to get out and play at all. I believe that experiences and having to problem solve real world situation is the best learning.
I went to full-day kindy 24 years ago. Is that close enough? And my classes never released after lunch. We got out 45 minutes early on Wednesdays. I clearly remember watching the clock.

Also, while your kids may be getting enriching whatevers while out of school mine will be in a pricey summer camp that is a lot like school because I work during school breaks. My choice, my problem, sure, but I imagine by school age and certainly by middle school most kids have two working parents. So they're either in camp, in summer school (of varying quality, if it is even offered) or they are at loose ends. Considering every at around this time my community starts packing care packages for kids whose schools provide most their nutritional needs (and there are a shocking number of them) I am going to guess that those students are not experiencing whatever idealistic childhood experiences summer is supposed to be for. Me, I wandered around the woods with my brother a lot and did things that would likely be illegal now. I have no idea if DD"s future summers spent in "gardening camp" and "sea turtle camp" will be more or less enriching than the unstructured wandering, but such is life. I know several teachers who complain that long summer breaks lead to having to reteach lost material, so the belief in the benefits of all this unstructured time is hardly universal.

Frankly, I am tired of watching the pile-on that happens anytime anyone says anything even mildly critical toward the public school system and, if you squint, teachers. Wondering how time is used in a tax-supported institution isn't elitist -- it's civics. Theorizing that more instructional time could be beneficial to student outcomes doesn't mean you want teachers to work for free. Thinking that the a school schedule largely established in the 19th CE could potentially be improved to better support the majority of the society that public schools were created to serve doesn't mean that you think all your childcare needs should be covered by the state. My own rant is now over.

I didn't see any kind of "pile on." Also, I don't think it was the fact that she's wondering how time is spent during the school year that was called elitist. It's the fact that people expect the entire school schedule to change just because it doesn't fit their schedule or because they have to arrange for childcare.

skibunny59 · June 2014

mlee116 said:

LibraryChica said:

fitmom82 said:
I'm not sure if your concern is a lack of childcare, which is not the purpose of school, or a lack of an education. I'm speaking as a teacher who is paid to work 186 days a year. If you want teachers to come in during spring break, then accept that school may get out a day earlier. You compare what it was like when you went to school, but I don't know of anyone who had full day kindergarden 25 years ago, now they pretty much all are. I also think breaks from school and time off can be very beneficial and educational for children. We do lots of experiences during school breaks that they wouldn't get while at school. We just went to the Bahamas where they got to experience another culture, we've done children's museum, Crayola Factory, unstructured play and socialization at parks, nature walks, ect. Children can and should do a ton of learning outside of school. I dread the day my LOs start getting homework and will definetly complain if they're not able to get out and play at all. I believe that experiences and having to problem solve real world situation is the best learning.
I went to full-day kindy 24 years ago. Is that close enough? And my classes never released after lunch. We got out 45 minutes early on Wednesdays. I clearly remember watching the clock.

Also, while your kids may be getting enriching whatevers while out of school mine will be in a pricey summer camp that is a lot like school because I work during school breaks. My choice, my problem, sure, but I imagine by school age and certainly by middle school most kids have two working parents. So they're either in camp, in summer school (of varying quality, if it is even offered) or they are at loose ends. Considering every at around this time my community starts packing care packages for kids whose schools provide most their nutritional needs (and there are a shocking number of them) I am going to guess that those students are not experiencing whatever idealistic childhood experiences summer is supposed to be for. Me, I wandered around the woods with my brother a lot and did things that would likely be illegal now. I have no idea if DD"s future summers spent in "gardening camp" and "sea turtle camp" will be more or less enriching than the unstructured wandering, but such is life. I know several teachers who complain that long summer breaks lead to having to reteach lost material, so the belief in the benefits of all this unstructured time is hardly universal.

Frankly, I am tired of watching the pile-on that happens anytime anyone says anything even mildly critical toward the public school system and, if you squint, teachers. Wondering how time is used in a tax-supported institution isn't elitist -- it's civics. Theorizing that more instructional time could be beneficial to student outcomes doesn't mean you want teachers to work for free. Thinking that the a school schedule largely established in the 19th CE could potentially be improved to better support the majority of the society that public schools were created to serve doesn't mean that you think all your childcare needs should be covered by the state. My own rant is now over.

I didn't see any kind of "pile on." Also, I don't think it was the fact that she's wondering how time is spent during the school year that was called elitist. It's the fact that people expect the entire school schedule to change just because it doesn't fit their schedule or because they have to arrange for childcare.

I agree. There is no "pile on". I just felt like the OP (and most of the women on this thread) are annoyed about the school calendar because it is an inconvenience to them, not necessarily because instructional time is being lost. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's the vibe I'm getting from this thread.

Who was the PP who said that when she was in school in a different country, the school day and school year was actually much shorter? And she actually learned more? Otherwise proving the point that more time spent in school does not equal a better education.

shannm · June 2014

I think her point was that the idea that time out of school is amazingly enriching for all children is not always the case.

Edit- this was posted delayed in response to cjs question about LC's comment. Have to catch up with this mornings posts, lol.

KayteeGee · June 2014

amy052006 said:

jetgrrrl said:

Thanks everyone - particularly b0710 for your perspective as a teacher. I can certainly see where there needs to be some collaborative time during the school year or even week. But geeze, it does seem like some of it could be held during the three-plus weeks off (there's almost two weeks off at Christmas, plus Winter and Spring vacations) that occur during the year.

Yup -- screw those teachers with kids. I wonder how you would respond to your boss telling you to get together an collaborate over the holidays or your vacation?

IDK -- I am sort of surprised it never crossed your mind to you this would eb a thing.

OK, I don't mean to be a bitch here, because I respect the heck out of teachers and know I could enver do it myself, but as a working mom - i don't get two weeks at Xmas, a week of spring break, a week of fall break AND the summers off.
So, no I really DO NOT feel bad about the idea that some of that planning could be done during that time.
I KNOW many teachers are over worked and class sizes are atrocious etc, etc... but you are really asking other working moms how it would feel if my boss asked me not to have 4 weeks vaca AND summers off... yeah.. that's my every day life, so nope - don't feel bad.

cookiedough22 · June 2014

KayteeGee said:

amy052006 said:

jetgrrrl said:

Thanks everyone - particularly b0710 for your perspective as a teacher. I can certainly see where there needs to be some collaborative time during the school year or even week. But geeze, it does seem like some of it could be held during the three-plus weeks off (there's almost two weeks off at Christmas, plus Winter and Spring vacations) that occur during the year.

Yup -- screw those teachers with kids. I wonder how you would respond to your boss telling you to get together an collaborate over the holidays or your vacation?

IDK -- I am sort of surprised it never crossed your mind to you this would eb a thing.

OK, I don't mean to be a bitch here, because I respect the heck out of teachers and know I could enver do it myself, but as a working mom - i don't get two weeks at Xmas, a week of spring break, a week of fall break AND the summers off.
So, no I really DO NOT feel bad about the idea that some of that planning could be done during that time.
I KNOW many teachers are over worked and class sizes are atrocious etc, etc... but you are really asking other working moms how it would feel if my boss asked me not to have 4 weeks vaca AND summers off... yeah.. that's my every day life, so nope - don't feel bad.

That may work for some but how does that work for teachers? Then they have to figure out child care because they have work days when their children are out.

I'm a teacher with no children who lurks WM because I'll be here one day.

The "random" planning days actually are more calculated then one may think. In my district, and many surrounding counties the planning days are set around interim reports/report card times. That allows teachers to actually work on reports without having to do it at home.

*sparky* · June 2014

To address the childcare issue, schools offer before and after care. Ours even offers care on some of the teacher conference days. Two of our local gyms offer childcare/camps during the holiday breaks but they follow the public school calendar and DS is in private so they don't always line up. My dad or a college student pick DS up on early dismissal days when I can't get there. And in the summer he goes to several really fun camps.

Regarding the learning issue and whether they have enough time in school, DS is in third grade and has been going to school since pre-3. I can tell you kids need breaks. Too many hours in school in one day or too many days of school without a break make them crazy or they just lose inrerest. Right now they have just a few days left of the school year and they are so ready to be done.

I would focus not so much on the hours they are there but the quality of the education they are getting while they are in school.

My DS attends less days than the public schools and he reads on a fifth grade level. I am amazed by what they are already learning in science and social studies, and he recently wrote a paper in Spanish.

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Moms of school-aged kids - how did you get over the school-year calendar shock? (mostly a rant)

Re: Moms of school-aged kids - how did you get over the school-year calendar shock? (mostly a rant)

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