I left my son in the car- article

cafecreme · June 2014

https://www.salon.com/2014/06/03/the_day_i_left_my_son_in_the_car/

It's a long read, but worth it.

jmcgra06 · June 2014

Wow - so scary!

DaisyDuck40 · June 2014

Thanks for sharing!

megaroo64 · June 2014

I really thought this was going to be about leaving a kid in a car on a hot day. I am glad it wasn't and glad I read it. Interesting info.

nikel13 · June 2014

That would be terrifying! That is a constant fear, that I will do something that someone else will see as bad and my child will be taken away. It's awful that a parent cannot feel confident enough that they are not being judged and will have horrible reprecussions do to that.

megaroo64 · June 2014

And to add, I think it is really appalling that someone just stood there and video taped the whole thing. That is not being a good samaritan. That is being a spy. I get video taping a mugging or something and not intervening... I mean... safety... but if the bystander was so passionate about this issue, why didn't they just SAY something to the mom? Was she wielding a knife or scary looking? I doubt it. Like parenting isn't hard enough without constantly looking over your shoulder for people with a damn camera phone that are watching for your misstep of the day.

cafecreme · June 2014

I have a confession, I left C in the car once, parked out front of my pharmacy. I had the 4 way flashers on, and ran in real quick to buy some ibprofen for her since she was in teething nightmare. There was only about 30 seconds where I couldn't see her. I was out in less than 1-2 minutes. I walked out, and I saw a woman a few seconds before walk up and I guess she realized what I did, was about to walk into rite aid and tell them, but then saw me get into the car and leave. I could just tell she wanted to do something if I wasn't there when I was. That was the last time I did it. Your being watched constantly, and I don't want to be locked up for something like leaving my kid in the car for a minute. It's pretty ridiculous how things like this happen now.

kelseypie · June 2014

I bet whoever it was that called the cops is a real hoot to hang out with.

ColieAnn31 · June 2014

Thanks @HoneyB1993‌ you expressed perfectly how I feel about her confession. I would have said something mean/rude or whatever because I've been in a weird mood all day so I've just been biting my tongue.

[Deleted User] · June 2014

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[Deleted User] · June 2014

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WasNotWas · June 2014

It's not a lapse in judgment if you consider the consequences prior to the action

libberluru said:

I agree with the side eye. I have had juveniles steal a running car while a mom ran in to grab food from a Chinese restaraunt. Holy hell that would be scary. Not worth the risk at all.

This is where my brain goes to regarding kids left in the car.

weddinginthecove · June 2014

I totally agree with calling the authorities in these situations. We get calls all the time that we respond to when people leave their children in cars. I've never apprehended a child for it or saw a parent charged. But, it gives the perfect opportunity to go out and educate those parents on these things. Also sometimes the scare of having CPS at your door will stop those parents from doing such things again. Would I video tape the whole thing, of course not, but calling in the licence plate and sitting until the parent comes out, yes. Sometimes confronting a parent in the moment will just lead to a huge confrontation in front of a child that is unnecessary.

KentuckyKate · June 2014

Good Lord. I've called 911 and then animal control over a whining, panting dog in a car with sealed windows on a 90 degree day, so honestly, I may have called if I saw a 4 year old alone in a car. Either way, I'm glad I read this article! Like the writer, I remember hanging out in the car while my parents ran errands, but times have obviously changed!

ilovemarfa · June 2014

Only certain states have laws regarding leaving your child in a car unattended.

https://www.kidsandcars.org/state-laws.html

I did it once to run into a gas station to pay (I could visibly see my car and it was literally right outside the door). A week later on the news there was an incident and somebody stole a car with a child still inside of it. Thankfully the child was found safe but needless to say that was the first and last time I ever did that.

ASmallWonder · June 2014

My issue with the whole thing is that you're working on the premise that you will be right back. What if you're not? What if something happens to you and no one even realizes there is a child alone in a car? I often WISH there was a safe way to leave the kids in the car but there isn't.

I do side eye taping and the calling the police. Either call the police bc the child is in imminent danger or confront the parent for their shitty choice.

cafecreme · June 2014

Like I said, I'm not doing it again. It was a lapse in judgement.

tiffletons518 · June 2014

I checked and it is illegal in my state, but they have a "child" as someone under 6. Meaning I could technically leave DD1. Nope. Even if you plan to "run in" the store for 30 seconds, what if there's a line at checkout? Maybe you get stuck behind "that person". I know how much can happen at home in the 20 seconds it takes me to pee, but I'm going to leave them in a vehicle? Nope nope nope.

kh59 · June 2014

I don't leave my LO in the car, and I doubt I will for years to come, but I still have a really hard time agreeing that the woman in the article made a terrible or dangerous decision. As she wrote, she did a risk/benefit analysis and made a decision that reflected the information she had and the situation she was in. Yes, someone could have broken into her locked car, set off her alarm, hot-wired it, and abducted her child in it. Likely? No, not so much. Would someone else in the parking lot (like, oh, say, the lady taping her car with a camera phone) have called the police or, more likely yet, deterred a would-be carjacker/kidnapper from committing such a crime in broad daylight in the middle of an occupied parking lot? Good chance. Could she have had a sudden stroke in the electronics aisle while looking for the headphones, and been rushed unconscious to the hospital, abandoning her four-year-old in the parking lot? I suppose, but I also suppose that the grandparents would have sorted everything out before the boy was in any significant danger. The statistical odds of that little boy getting hurt went up astronomically when his mother returned to the car, turned it on, and started to drive, but we don't judge her for putting her kid at risk by letting him ride in a car because it's culturally normal to do so. We wouldn't judge her for letting her son sign up for football and putting him at risk for concussions because it's culturally normal to do so. There are all kinds of risks that we all face every day. It seems like we as a culture are training ourselves to worry more about the ones that make for good television drama (whether it be the fictional kind or the kind on the news) rather than the ones that are actually more likely to do us and our children harm.

Or maybe I'm just mad at the lady who stopped her car in the road and got out to yell at my husband yesterday for daring to ride his bike with our daughter in a trailer where she was wearing a five-point safety harness and a helmet.

WasNotWas · June 2014

Beary+Ghastly said:

Like I said, I'm not doing it again. It was a lapse in judgement.

Nothing in your original statement said either of those things...

numbersgirl08 · June 2014

WasNotWas said:

Beary+Ghastly said:

Like I said, I'm not doing it again. It was a lapse in judgement.
Nothing in your original statement said either of those things...

To be fair, she did say "That was the last time I did it." which I took to mean she is never planning to do it again. But to your point, she doesn't really acknowledge that it was a lapse in judgment.

I agree, it's something you shouldn't do. And I haven't done it and never plan to. But I very much agree with @kh59. By this standard, we should never drive our kids anywhere unless it is necessary. We shouldn't let them play sports where they can get hurt. Yes, there are bad things that could happen and so we do what we can to avoid those. But if we're going to be so paranoid about this one scenario, why are we not more paranoid about other decisions we make that aren't necessary that put our kids in more danger? Parenting is a constant risk analysis and I think that our human nature tends to skew the relative risks of activities based on our preconceived notions.

tiffletons518 · June 2014

numbersgirl08 said:

WasNotWas said:

Beary+Ghastly said:

Like I said, I'm not doing it again. It was a lapse in judgement.
Nothing in your original statement said either of those things...

To be fair, she did say "That was the last time I did it." which I took to mean she is never planning to do it again. But to your point, she doesn't really acknowledge that it was a lapse in judgment.

I agree, it's something you shouldn't do. And I haven't done it and never plan to. But I very much agree with @kh59. By this standard, we should never drive our kids anywhere unless it is necessary. We shouldn't let them play sports where they can get hurt. Yes, there are bad things that could happen and so we do what we can to avoid those. But if we're going to be so paranoid about this one scenario, why are we not more paranoid about other decisions we make that aren't necessary that put our kids in more danger? Parenting is a constant risk analysis and I think that our human nature tends to skew the relative risks of activities based on our preconceived notions.

Meh. I see what @kh59 is saying, but I don't necessarily agree. I don't think you can compare leaving the kid alone in the car to driving. Yes, driving is dangerous. Accidents do happen. And all the other examples she gives. But, unfortunately the kind of world we live in is one where somebody will take your car whether your kid is in it or not. I don't think not leaving your child unattended in a vehicle is being paranoid, it's using wisdom. Which is also something you should be doing as a parent.

numbersgirl08 · June 2014

tiffletons518 said:

numbersgirl08 said:

WasNotWas said:

Beary+Ghastly said:

Like I said, I'm not doing it again. It was a lapse in judgement.
Nothing in your original statement said either of those things...

To be fair, she did say "That was the last time I did it." which I took to mean she is never planning to do it again. But to your point, she doesn't really acknowledge that it was a lapse in judgment.

I agree, it's something you shouldn't do. And I haven't done it and never plan to. But I very much agree with @kh59. By this standard, we should never drive our kids anywhere unless it is necessary. We shouldn't let them play sports where they can get hurt. Yes, there are bad things that could happen and so we do what we can to avoid those. But if we're going to be so paranoid about this one scenario, why are we not more paranoid about other decisions we make that aren't necessary that put our kids in more danger? Parenting is a constant risk analysis and I think that our human nature tends to skew the relative risks of activities based on our preconceived notions.

Meh. I see what @kh59 is saying, but I don't necessarily agree. I don't think you can compare leaving the kid alone in the car to driving. Yes, driving is dangerous. Accidents do happen. And all the other examples she gives. But, unfortunately the kind of world we live in is one where somebody will take your car whether your kid is in it or not. I don't think not leaving your child unattended in a vehicle is being paranoid, it's using wisdom. Which is also something you should be doing as a parent.

I think it comes down to our tolerance for bad things happening because they were "accidents" vs. whether we think we could have done something to prevent it. But it really is all a risk analysis. If my daughter died because of a car crash from a car trip that wasn't necessary or died from being abducted because I left her in the car - the end result is the same! And the risk that the first will happen is a lot lot higher than the second. But no one ever stops to think about taking unnecessary car trips and the risk they are putting themselves under - because it's socially acceptable and probably underestimated. We think it's wisdom when we don't leave our kid in the car for a few minutes, but it's not wisdom if we avoid unnecessary car trips - that'd be paranoia. I just think it really comes down to human nature's tendency to view things in different ways.

I say all this as kind of playing devils advocate because I'm always interested in behavioral analysis and how humans view risk/reward payoffs. But my gut inclination is the same as yours - I respond in the same way. I think it's wise not to leave your kid in the car and shouldn't do it and don't do it. And I don't think twice about running to the store to get something I don't need and bringing N along with me instead of leaving her at home with MH. I just think it's interesting to challenge our viewpoints and the way we always think of things

tiffletons518 · June 2014

**trimming trees**

I still don't think that's a fair comparison. Sure, some trips out may be unnecessary, but like you said you can't be afraid to leave the house. Leaving the house, traveling, driving in general is sort of a part of daily life. It just is. Leaving a small child alone in a vehicle is dangerous and stupid and a choice YOU make knowing the risks. You say it's a risk you purposely take running to the store too. You are powerless to stop (most) car accidents. You are NOT powerless to stop something like that.

numbersgirl08 · June 2014

tiffletons518 said:

**trimming trees**
I still don't think that's a fair comparison. Sure, some trips out may be unnecessary, but like you said you can't be afraid to leave the house. Leaving the house, traveling, driving in general is sort of a part of daily life. It just is. Leaving a small child alone in a vehicle is dangerous and stupid and a choice YOU make knowing the risks. You say it's a risk you purposely take running to the store too. You are powerless to stop (most) car accidents. You are NOT powerless to stop something like that.

In essence, you could stop many car accidents by choosing not to go somewhere. But like you said, you make the choice that leaving the house is part of daily life and it is not worth it to avoid leaving the house. That makes sense. And it's one risk/reward analysis you've just made. You also make the decision that the dangers of leaving them in the car is worth the hassle of taking them out. Another risk/reward analysis you make as a parent. Both seem very reasonable to me, but I just want to acknowledge that you are consciously making a decision for both. You've decided that

the benefits of living your daily life > the risk of getting into a car accident, and

the benefits of leaving your kid in the car while you go inside < the risk of something happening to them.

We know that the risk of getting into a car accident is much much higher than the risk of something happening to them being left in the car. So clearly we really really value living daily life and not being stuck at home. Fair enough - that makes sense. My question is just that are our social conventions skewing those equations somewhat so that we are undervaluing the risk of getting into a car accident or overvaluing the risk of something happening if they are left in the car? And I haven't even take into account the trade off risk you assume with those decisions. Clearly taking them into the store with you has risks of its own as is mentioned in the article - being hit by a car in the parking lot, getting shot by someone who robs the store, yada yada.

If you see both as risk/reward analyses, then they are definitely comparable. You just might not think they are on the same scale of comparability so it's not worth comparing. Perhaps so.

numbersgirl08 · June 2014

Pardon my long-winded responses on this topic. I'm not even really trying to argue at all. I'm just fascinated by topics like these. Perhaps too much so

kh59 · June 2014

numbersgirl08 said:

I think it comes down to our tolerance for bad things happening because they were "accidents" vs. whether we think we could have done something to prevent it. But it really is all a risk analysis. If my daughter died because of a car crash from a car trip that wasn't necessary or died from being abducted because I left her in the car - the end result is the same! And the risk that the first will happen is a lot lot higher than the second. But no one ever stops to think about taking unnecessary car trips and the risk they are putting themselves under - because it's socially acceptable and probably underestimated. We think it's wisdom when we don't leave our kid in the car for a few minutes, but it's not wisdom if we avoid unnecessary car trips - that'd be paranoia. I just think it really comes down to human nature's tendency to view things in different ways.

I say all this as kind of playing devils advocate because I'm always interested in behavioral analysis and how humans view risk/reward payoffs. But my gut inclination is the same as yours - I respond in the same way. I think it's wise not to leave your kid in the car and shouldn't do it and don't do it. And I don't think twice about running to the store to get something I don't need and bringing N along with me instead of leaving her at home with MH. I just think it's interesting to challenge our viewpoints and the way we always think of things

Definitely. I guess the other thing that really bums me out about this whole situation is the inevitable "why" questions from kids. I don't ever really want to have my daughter ask, "Why can't I wait in the car?" and have to say either "Because someone might kidnap you," or "Because someone might have mommy arrested." I don't want her to be afraid of either of those very unlikely occurrences any more than I would want her to be terrified every time we get in the car because we might be in an accident.

I also just don't buy the idea that we live in a more dangerous world in terms of things like child abduction than previous generations. Generally speaking, per capita violent crime has decreased over the last few decades, not increased, and yet we're more afraid. (Not to mention the huge proportion of crimes like abduction and rape that are perpetrated by family members, not strangers in parking lots.) I feel like there's a vigilance threshold out there somewhere that it's not healthy or productive for me to cross, and there are also rewards for fostering some independence for my kid. I imagine it will be a constant struggle to strike a good balance.

numbersgirl08 · June 2014

GiggleJiggle said:

Not a fair comparison at all. I could wake up in the morning and choke on my eggos. Am I going to still eat breakfast? Yes. The point is that it is illegal and it is illegal for a reason.

Because you've decided the benefits of eating your eggos outweigh the risks.

ASmallWonder · June 2014

I guess my feeling is that tantrum be damned. The benefit did NOT outweigh the risk here. All she gained was saving herself the trouble of a screaming kid. Shit - I'd have to leave my kid on street corners on the regular if that's the criteria.

bumpuser8448316 · June 2014

I don't buy that she's telling the whole story truthfully. There are too many holes. Nevertheless, there is no situation where I ever think it's okay to leave a kid in a car. Period.

JessicaKS · June 2014

This story is the reason that every place should have a drive-through. Then you can both stay in the car and still run errands! Win-win!

ColieAnn31 · June 2014

I usually always have Alex or my sister with me when I go get groceries. But if I don't have someone with me I load up the groceries, put the cart away and then put Grayson in the car. When I get home I put Grayson in the living room that is completely baby proofed and turn on cartoons and then I load in
all the groceries.

CoffeeBeanFiend91 · June 2014

I make it a point when I go to the store to park next to the shopping trolley thing so I can put her in the car first so she can have her sippy and toy while I load groceries. Then I never have to move away from the car to return the trolley. I make DH bring in groceries when I get home.

bumpuser8448316 · June 2014

When I'm loading groceries into the car I put the kids in and then load it up. I'm literally standing right next to the van and the keys are clipped to my belt loop so even if someone got in the car they couldn't drive it away. I always park next to the cart corral even if the only open spot is all the way at the end of the aisle so I'm not very far from my van. At home, I close the garage door and then get the kids out and then unload

ilovemarfa · June 2014

I always leave the boys in the car while unload my groceries into the house. I don't trust them inside alone while I go outside. I have a single family home with an attached garage in a residential, safe town so I'm not concerned somebody will jump me and take my kids or car I the time it takes me to make 2 trips into the house. The grocery store, I load the kids. It would be far too dangerous to allow my 3 year old to stand outside of the car with me while I load. He's pretty good about following instructions and staying right next to me but I don't want to risk him running off and getting hit by a car. I always park next to the cart returns so once I'm done I can just throw the cart in there and leave. I also don't start my car until I get inside. I'll open the windows if it is hot.

ASmallWonder · June 2014

Depends on the weather. I have no issues either way. Coming home I leave the kids in their seats if they're sleeping until I'm done but if they're away they get brought it and Q gets put in his "pen."

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