Poll: Cry It Out

Cara1024 · May 2014

Do you plan to do some sort of "cry it out" sleep training at some point?

kiki1978 · May 2014

I also will do sleep training when we think we need to. Honestly, (knock on wood) he's really good at night, but I can see some training happening for naps.

worleygirl · May 2014

My pedi says at 6 months not to get them up to eat when they cry in the night. Right now we still do bc she's very small and probably still hungry.

jwp325 · May 2014

I'm reluctant to do anything yet. DD is still on the small side and does wake up hungry. Maybe when she's closer to 14-15 pounds, we'll do some type of sleep training but probably modified CIO.

NenaMarie84 · May 2014

If we need to at some point we will. Definitely not before six months.

slmille4 · May 2014

The key is whenrge time is right. Also I won't let them cry to exhaustion.

tahloulah10 · May 2014

When the time is right and if it's needed, we will sleep train. I assumed I'd be tough enough for CIO, but I'm not so sure now. Her cries melt my heart into a puddle of mush. My ultimate goal is to teach her to self soothe.

housewifebecomesher · May 2014

She's 4 months and we are on night 6 of CIO. It sucks but it works. Last night we were down to 10 minutes (from an hour night 1). Our main thing was she wasn't in her crib yet and we are traveling next weekend and sleeping in a crib is her only choice!

ETA: we still feed MOTN if she wakes but let her self soothe after feeding, and at bedtime.

chicki1012 · May 2014

Yes if it's needed when he's a big older though, few months. I want to slowly wean him off the paci. I don't know, he sleeps good but will fuss a few times a night for his paci. So eventually I want him STTN again. He does like to suck and loves his paci.

katags · May 2014

@tahloulah10‌ How do you teach self soothing? We need that in our lives ASAP.

amt0312 · May 2014

Definitely am not against it. I have a feeling we will need to do it at some point- the key is making sure the timing is right for both LO and me.

bethughknee · May 2014

If necessary.

But not until after 6 months. I keep reading that before then babies may not be able to soothe themselves (obviously everyone is different) but I definitely have a baby who needs help soothing. I feel like trying too early would be fruitless for us.

@babywinks How did you modify Ferber? I'm reading his book and MH has co-workers who swear by him but I'm still scared. If you would share your edits I would be forever grateful.

SunflowersBride · May 2014

I really personally believe that if babies are crying, they need something. Even if they just need comfort from mom. And because of that, I think babies eventually stop crying because they realize you aren't going to meet their needs, so there is no point to crying anymore. And I think that can lead to trust issues later in life. So, if I do any type of sleep training, it would be some type of non- crying gentle soothing training.

sugarland726 · May 2014

SunflowersBride said:

I really personally believe that if babies are crying, they need something. Even if they just need comfort from mom. And because of that, I think babies eventually stop crying because they realize you aren't going to meet their needs, so there is no point to crying anymore. And I think that can lead to trust issues later in life. So, if I do any type of sleep training, it would be some type of non- crying gentle soothing training.

I support you in whatever sleep training method you choose for LO when the time comes. I do respectfully disagree about the trust issue. We did Ferber's CIO with DD. CIO is not crying to extinction, or leaving them in their room from 8pm-8am and never going in there. Ferber advocates timed checks on the LO and helping settle them down.

worleygirl · May 2014

Obviously this is a personal decision but CIO worked for us w DS. He has always been a great sleeper and doesn't have trust issues. He's much happier when well rested and well fed and I've never once regretted it. That being said, DD is still nursing and smaller than him and definitely prefers me to DH. As a result I will probably wait longer with her bc she doesn't seem ready yet. DS was more easily soothed by either parent and wasn't as interested in late night cuddles anyway.

SunflowersBride · May 2014

MarBee1214 said:

SunflowersBride said:

I really personally believe that if babies are crying, they need something. Even if they just need comfort from mom. And because of that, I think babies eventually stop crying because they realize you aren't going to meet their needs, so there is no point to crying anymore. And I think that can lead to trust issues later in life. So, if I do any type of sleep training, it would be some type of non- crying gentle soothing training.

But how can you guarantee that your gentle soothing will stop your LO from crying? Personally, my LO must be picked up and held for her to stop crying while in her crib. How will she ever sleep in her crib unless I allow her to cry? She can't sleep in my arms forever and its not safe to keep her in a RNP when she can rock it herself from trying to sit up and roll over while she's in it.

Just seems like one of those instances where you can say it can be done if it has worked for your child, but throw in a kid who absolutely won't be soothed unless they are in your arms and I think you might hum a different tune. Saying that you think babies who are left to CIO will have trust issues later in life seems a little presumptuous and mommy-judgey

I didn't say that at all. I said that it's a possibility. I'm not trying to be mommy judgy, I don't care what other people do. And when the time comes, I may be all out of ideas and resort to that myself. Obviously not everyone uses a CIO method, otherwise this poll would not have been made. I just don't believe it's the right way to go for me personally at this time.

SunflowersBride · May 2014

sugarland726 said:

SunflowersBride said:

I really personally believe that if babies are crying, they need something. Even if they just need comfort from mom. And because of that, I think babies eventually stop crying because they realize you aren't going to meet their needs, so there is no point to crying anymore. And I think that can lead to trust issues later in life. So, if I do any type of sleep training, it would be some type of non- crying gentle soothing training.

I support you in whatever sleep training method you choose for LO when the time comes. I do respectfully disagree about the trust issue. We did Ferber's CIO with DD. CIO is not crying to extinction, or leaving them in their room from 8pm-8am and never going in there. Ferber advocates timed checks on the LO and helping settle them down.

This is definitely something I would consider. I still have DS in my room with me, so I'm not even considering sleep training methods yet, but checks definitely seem like a good balance.

mrskratt · May 2014

We will definitely be doing the sleep easy solution, CIO method in a few weeks. We would be starting now, but DD just had her lip tie corrected and we need that to heal first. She has, from day 1, slept like crap and always wakes up angry. This needs to change. She doesn't get good quality sleep or enough sleep.

COgirl29 · May 2014

Sleep training (or CIO) does not cause long term psychological harm. It will not make your baby not trust you in the future. If we are going to use personal experience, then my mom did modified CIO with me and my 3 siblings at 3 months and I have never not trusted her or felt unsafe with her. I am very close to her and speak to her at least once a day.

Everyone should do what they feel comfortable doing - and shouldn't be placing judgment on others for choosing what they do. If someone doesn't want to sleep train, great - but don't tell those that do that they are sabotaging their relationship with their LO and messing them up.

Now if we are going to use scientific basis, then this a really good article debunking the myths that CIO causes psychological harm: https://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/the_kids/2013/07/clinical_lactation_jumps_on_the_dr_sears_bandwagon_to_say_sleep_training.html

SunflowersBride · May 2014

Sorry guys, you're right I guess the trust issues comment did come across as judgy. I take that back!

SunflowersBride · May 2014

COgirl29 said:

Sleep training (or CIO) does not cause long term psychological harm. It will not make your baby not trust you in the future. If we are going to use personal experience, then my mom did modified CIO with me and my 3 siblings at 3 months and I have never not trusted her or felt unsafe with her. I am very close to her and speak to her at least once a day. Everyone should do what they feel comfortable doing - and shouldn't be placing judgment on others for choosing what they do. If someone doesn't want to sleep train, great - but don't tell those that do that they are sabotaging their relationship with their LO and messing them up. Now if we are going to use scientific basis, then this a really good article debunking the myths that CIO causes psychological harm: https://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/the_kids/2013/07/clinical_lactation_jumps_on_the_dr_sears_bandwagon_to_say_sleep_training.html

I love Slate, so I appreciate this article! I guess for me I just personally really try to follow my instincts when it comes to parenting, and my instincts tell me that the baby is crying for a reason and he needs me to get him, especially since he just turned 4 months old. Babies don't understand that a person is coming back until they are much older, so I believe that babies cry and don't realize that their mom is going to come for them if you just let them continue to cry without at least reassuring them.

And, I probably don't need to point out that anecdotal experience that you were left to CIO and you turned out fine doesn't necessarily make it right. I don't think anyone here would advocate for letting a 3 month old CIO these days.

Lena122 · May 2014

With DS I felt like I'd be rocking him to sleep until he left for college because I wasn't comfortable with CIO. That doesn't mean I never let him cry but I didn't do full on training that way. He's over 2 now and he's a great sleeper.

I personally think 4 months is too young for CIO and too soon to believe you'll be rocking your baby forever. I'm content to rock her for now. Maybe I'll reevaluate when she's over 6 months.

sugarland726 · May 2014

SunflowersBride said:

COgirl29 said:

Sleep training (or CIO) does not cause long term psychological harm. It will not make your baby not trust you in the future. If we are going to use personal experience, then my mom did modified CIO with me and my 3 siblings at 3 months and I have never not trusted her or felt unsafe with her. I am very close to her and speak to her at least once a day. Everyone should do what they feel comfortable doing - and shouldn't be placing judgment on others for choosing what they do. If someone doesn't want to sleep train, great - but don't tell those that do that they are sabotaging their relationship with their LO and messing them up. Now if we are going to use scientific basis, then this a really good article debunking the myths that CIO causes psychological harm: https://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/the_kids/2013/07/clinical_lactation_jumps_on_the_dr_sears_bandwagon_to_say_sleep_training.html

I love Slate, so I appreciate this article! I guess for me I just personally really try to follow my instincts when it comes to parenting, and my instincts tell me that the baby is crying for a reason and he needs me to get him, especially since he just turned 4 months old. Babies don't understand that a person is coming back until they are much older, so I believe that babies cry and don't realize that their mom is going to come for them if you just let them continue to cry without at least reassuring them.

And, I probably don't need to point out that anecdotal experience that you were left to CIO and you turned out fine doesn't necessarily make it right. I don't think anyone here would advocate for letting a 3 month old CIO these days.

Truth! As said above, I used CIO and I recommend it to people. But always under the right circumstances. There is a right and a wrong time to do it and a right and a wrong way to do it. Education is key.

COgirl29 · May 2014

SunflowersBride said:

COgirl29 said:

Sleep training (or CIO) does not cause long term psychological harm. It will not make your baby not trust you in the future. If we are going to use personal experience, then my mom did modified CIO with me and my 3 siblings at 3 months and I have never not trusted her or felt unsafe with her. I am very close to her and speak to her at least once a day.

Everyone should do what they feel comfortable doing - and shouldn't be placing judgment on others for choosing what they do. If someone doesn't want to sleep train, great - but don't tell those that do that they are sabotaging their relationship with their LO and messing them up.

Now if we are going to use scientific basis, then this a really good article debunking the myths that CIO causes psychological harm: https://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/the_kids/2013/07/clinical_lactation_jumps_on_the_dr_sears_bandwagon_to_say_sleep_training.html

I love Slate, so I appreciate this article! I guess for me I just personally really try to follow my instincts when it comes to parenting, and my instincts tell me that the baby is crying for a reason and he needs me to get him, especially since he just turned 4 months old. Babies don't understand that a person is coming back until they are much older, so I believe that babies cry and don't realize that their mom is going to come for them if you just let them continue to cry without at least reassuring them.

And, I probably don't need to point out that anecdotal experience that you were left to CIO and you turned out fine doesn't necessarily make it right. I don't think anyone here would advocate for letting a 3 month old CIO these days.

I can appreciate that @SunflowersBride‌. I simply used the anecdotal experience really as a tongue and cheek thing - bc I feel like many who are opposed to CIO at all only have anecdotal experience or "feelings" and no science.

Many experts and pediatricians say 4 months is appropriate. Some say 6 months. My pedi says 4 months and I trust him. Sleep easy solution also says 4 months.

Also, I agree about baby needing to know you will come back. I would never endorse full extinction where you close their door at 7pm and don't come back in until 7am. I do endorse modified - where you check in with them at 3 minutes, then 5 minutes etc. I've even read it's healthy for them to see you leave and come back in general bc it helps them to understand when you leave, you aren't leaving them for good.

COgirl29 · May 2014

@MarBee1214‌ - I'm trying to get back over here a bit

ababymaybe · May 2014

We did CIO with checks with my first. I will do it again if need be. So far this one is a far better sleeper, or at least he was until he got sick. Once he's better and closer to 6 months we will re evaluate.

For what it's worth though, all those "no cry" solutions made my first cry way MORE. The crux of it was that he was chronically overtired and our "help" was really just adding to his overstimulation. He used to cry for hours while we "soothed" him! It was awful. A few nights of CIO for about 5 minutes at a time and he was like a brand new kid. Much happier and a much better sleeper. It really depends on the child and the situation.

OSUWifey09 · May 2014

DD is pretty great at self-soothing [unlike her big brother, who would not do that to save his life], so I think we will be OK. I will wait until she's closer to a year to do any sort of sleep training if we absolutely need it, but I'm not sure we will. She still needs to be rocked, but I'm fine with that.

Rebis58 · May 2014

MarBee1214 said:

SunflowersBride said:

I really personally believe that if babies are crying, they need something. Even if they just need comfort from mom. And because of that, I think babies eventually stop crying because they realize you aren't going to meet their needs, so there is no point to crying anymore. And I think that can lead to trust issues later in life. So, if I do any type of sleep training, it would be some type of non- crying gentle soothing training.

But how can you guarantee that your gentle soothing will stop your LO from crying? Personally, my LO must be picked up and held for her to stop crying while in her crib. How will she ever sleep in her crib unless I allow her to cry? She can't sleep in my arms forever and its not safe to keep her in a RNP when she can rock it herself from trying to sit up and roll over while she's in it.

Just seems like one of those instances where you can say it can be done if it has worked for your child, but throw in a kid who absolutely won't be soothed unless they are in your arms and I think you might hum a different tune. Saying that you think babies who are left to CIO will have trust issues later in life seems a little presumptuous and mommy-judgey

Agreed. Whether to use CIO or not is a personal choice based on what works for the baby and the parents. I have friends/family who weren't comfortable with it (or maybe just didn't need it), and their babies and kids (including adult children of my older relatives) are healthy, happy, well adjusted and have normal attachments. I also have friends/family who chose to use CIO because it was right for them. Their babies and kids, including adult children, are also healthy, happy, well adjusted and have normal attachments.

Parents have enough guilt, no need to add to the guilt of parents who are either at the end of their ropes and decide to try CIO, or just feel it's what's best for their family. Almost every parenting decision we make will have "experts" on one side saying why it's good, and "experts" on the other side saying why it's bad or a different method is better. In a lot of cases there is no right or wrong, just what works or doesn't work for each individual family.

ETA: Should have read the whole thread before commenting

I see this has been covered already!

pinkyxboo · May 2014

I was doing some research tonight and I found this Mommy's account and advice for, as she calls it, "Ferberizing" your baby. It's quite comical and I definitely recommend the read.

https://noobmommy.com/2008/11/to-ferberize-or-not-to-ferberize.html

brandlebugg · May 2014

We just started implementing some of the baby wise tactics. LO is almost 16lbs and my mommy intuition told me he was ready. We just started by scheduling feedings. Prior, He was nursing every 2 hours but less than 10 mins. Now he nurses every 3 hours 15-20 mins. He actually gets more time at the breast this way (during the day). I started him on rice cereal for breakfast; so we wake around 8 and nurse and eat cereal, then feed every 3 hrs after that. He goes down for the night at 8; dream feed at 11 and 4. If he cries, I do a diaper check, no lights, no eye contact, no talking. As long as I know he's fed and clean, I'll allow him to cry. So far, the longest he's had to CIO is 28 mins, but I wouldn't allow him to cry past 30. It might sound harsh but I don't think it is. We were cosleeping for a time, but DH was having a hard time with it. LO is adapting really well to the schedule and he's always smiley when I come get him out of his crib in the morning. I feel like I've needed some order back in our lives and it's good for LO to have a routine. In a week, we're gonna go down to one dream feed at 2, and hopefully after a couple weeks of that he'll be STTN. So I said yes; baby wise suggests starting ST at 3 weeks but I wasn't ok with that. We're doing a modified version... All you can do is go with your instinct sometimes.

brandlebugg · May 2014

COgirl29 said:

Now if we are going to use scientific basis, then this a really good article debunking the myths that CIO causes psychological harm: https://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/the_kids/2013/07/clinical_lactation_jumps_on_the_dr_sears_bandwagon_to_say_sleep_training.html

Awesome article!!! Thank you

pinkyxboo · May 2014

So for the past 3 days I have been trying a modified version of Ferbers ST. Baby girl would not nap unless I was holding her or laying right next to to her. Getting her to sleep at night wasn't ever an issue, and she STTN...but nap times were a completely different story. So after reading this thread and doing some research. .I figured, why not? I am AMAZED that it's actually working! She's putting herself to sleep in her PNP! And even though she's been ok with falling asleep at night, I've begun using the method then too so it's always consistent. I'm so happy and proud of her!

SunflowersBride · May 2014

brandlebugg said:

We just started implementing some of the baby wise tactics. LO is almost 16lbs and my mommy intuition told me he was ready. We just started by scheduling feedings. Prior, He was nursing every 2 hours but less than 10 mins. Now he nurses every 3 hours 15-20 mins. He actually gets more time at the breast this way (during the day). I started him on rice cereal for breakfast; so we wake around 8 and nurse and eat cereal, then feed every 3 hrs after that. He goes down for the night at 8; dream feed at 11 and 4. If he cries, I do a diaper check, no lights, no eye contact, no talking. As long as I know he's fed and clean, I'll allow him to cry. So far, the longest he's had to CIO is 28 mins, but I wouldn't allow him to cry past 30. It might sound harsh but I don't think it is. We were cosleeping for a time, but DH was having a hard time with it. LO is adapting really well to the schedule and he's always smiley when I come get him out of his crib in the morning. I feel like I've needed some order back in our lives and it's good for LO to have a routine. In a week, we're gonna go down to one dream feed at 2, and hopefully after a couple weeks of that he'll be STTN. So I said yes; baby wise suggests starting ST at 3 weeks but I wasn't ok with that. We're doing a modified version... All you can do is go with your instinct sometimes.

Not to get into a debate, but I'm fairly certain "Babywise" is not recommended if you are breastfeeding because you are supposed to BF on demand, rather than a schedule, and following the advice of that book has led some babies to become dehydrated and failure to thrive. The below link has a good summary without being judgy.

https://www.babysleepsite.com/sleep-training/warning-babywise-may-not-be-right-for-your-baby/

brandlebugg · May 2014

SunflowersBride said:

brandlebugg said:

We just started implementing some of the baby wise tactics. LO is almost 16lbs and my mommy intuition told me he was ready. We just started by scheduling feedings. Prior, He was nursing every 2 hours but less than 10 mins. Now he nurses every 3 hours 15-20 mins. He actually gets more time at the breast this way (during the day). I started him on rice cereal for breakfast; so we wake around 8 and nurse and eat cereal, then feed every 3 hrs after that. He goes down for the night at 8; dream feed at 11 and 4. If he cries, I do a diaper check, no lights, no eye contact, no talking. As long as I know he's fed and clean, I'll allow him to cry. So far, the longest he's had to CIO is 28 mins, but I wouldn't allow him to cry past 30. It might sound harsh but I don't think it is. We were cosleeping for a time, but DH was having a hard time with it. LO is adapting really well to the schedule and he's always smiley when I come get him out of his crib in the morning. I feel like I've needed some order back in our lives and it's good for LO to have a routine. In a week, we're gonna go down to one dream feed at 2, and hopefully after a couple weeks of that he'll be STTN. So I said yes; baby wise suggests starting ST at 3 weeks but I wasn't ok with that. We're doing a modified version... All you can do is go with your instinct sometimes.

Not to get into a debate, but I'm fairly certain "Babywise" is not recommended if you are breastfeeding because you are supposed to BF on demand, rather than a schedule, and following the advice of that book has led some babies to become dehydrated and failure to thrive. The below link has a good summary without being judgy.

https://www.babysleepsite.com/sleep-training/warning-babywise-may-not-be-right-for-your-baby/

Yeah well I think I know what's best for my LO. And he's now STTN so it works.

brandlebugg · May 2014

I also want to add that we just started babywise, and we modify it for what works for us. LO weighs 15lb 13 oz... So we know he's getting enough to eat/drink.

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