Gender Open Parenting

redrockmama · May 2014

We haven't had a thread in a couple of weeks, I'm sure we've all been really busy and although I think about starting the thread, I can never come up with a good topic/question.

I do have a specific question for everyone though:

So....I love my mom dearly, but she is really pushing my buttons lately about our baby's sex. We planned on being team green, and at the a/s J really wanted to find out so we did, but we have continued to tell everyone we don't know the sex. We are trying to postpone people shoving our kid into a box as long as possible.

So my mom just can't accept this AT ALL. She continues to say she can't buy anything for the baby until it's born because she doesn't know the sex and that once the baby is born she is going to buy a bunch of gender specific things. She even told my sister that once the baby is here we will change our minds and want to raise our kid to match the gender stereotypes that align with its sex.

One moment she will say that it's great that we want our kid to discover who it is on its own, with all options available and encouraged. Then, the next moment she'll send me texts and tell me stories about people she knows who have kids who are very "boy" or very "girl" despite their intentions. And how because we want to leave options open for our kid we will end up with either "girly girl" or "boy boy" and how funny that would be, etc.

I think a serious convo is in order because it's really driving me nuts and making me want to not talk to her about the baby at all, (the convo always ends up here). I want to send her some info before I talk to her, like a fairly mainstream (not too academic) article about the issue that might help her understand why this is so important to us. Do any of you have recommendations? I did a quick search but didn't love anything I saw. I was especially thinking of @healz413 @manada @doodah1013 and @firstcomeslove2013, or anyone else that knows of a good resource(s)

Thanks, advice is welcome too of course.

CageyMack · May 2014

No real advice or article suggestions, but I wonder if she is trying to "get on board" with you, and it is a nervous fixation. I have an aunt who makes awkward comments about gay-ness (like she has thought about it herself, or something benign, but not quite spot on for her life/history), but I firmly believe it is because my aunt is trying to be inclusive.

I agree that a direct conversation could help, if only to stop the barrage. Perhaps she would calm down a little then and it would take the anxiousness away, especially with the article you are after.

Ah, family. Gotta love 'em.

Mystjava · May 2014

While I don't have any words of wisdom, but you can be direct. It might sting at first and hurt, but the importance of clarity will come. I remember telling my mom, who was thrilled that we chose to go non.gender specific because it meant she could give us tie-dyed items for my son.
We do our best to raise our son in non-gender, but he picks out activities for himself. Each child will grow into their zone on their time.

doodah1013 · May 2014

I have been waiting to get to an actual keyboard to answer this one!

I must say, we are in a very similar situation with our parents. Both sets of our parents are equally horrified that we will not be finding out the sex of our baby.... But due to many things, including our own curiosity and desire to prepare responses to why we choose to encourage gender open options for our baby (because I firmly believe that society will react differently to gender open parenting when it comes to girls vs. boys, not because we will parent differently) we have decided we do want to find out the sex. That being said, like you, we will not be telling our parents what we find. We have often heard the response "Well, how will we know what to buy it?" And this has just reaffirmed why we will not be telling them.

I wasn't raised in a gender open house hold. In fact, still to this day I receive women's pajamas and other very feminine clothing/jewelry items from my Mom for holidays. I have learned it is better to accept the gift gracefully, and then re-home it (give it to my wife, donate it to charity, or if I am lucky enough to be given a receipt, return it for something I like.) My parents don't really "get it". To them boys are boys and girls are girls.... Yet, they have both said they can't imagine me pregnant, which means in some way they have integrated my identity as masculine.

So what is our plan for our baby? Ehhh.... We are going to find out the sex, and proceed to not tell anyone who would be excited about it... because if they are too excited one way or the other, that is a sign of too much investment.

We are explain how important it is for our baby to not be put in a box... either before they are born or shortly thereafter. Any clothes that are given to us for the baby that are overly gendered: (clothing items that say any of the following words: stud, hunk, princess, tough guy, brat, etc.) will be accepted, and then thrown away or burned in a fire.... No need to cause a big scene about it. Clothes are given to babies to bring joy to the giver, not the receiver. And in this way, I think we will choose our battles carefully. I don't want to be that parent that spends all over their baby's life fighting with people because we will have a radical parenting style. That is too much stress for us, and takes away from what we are trying to accomplish. When it comes down to it, no matter what we are given, we get to choose what the baby wears, plays with does, etc. We will try to make that as opaque as possible, without being confrontational.

Here is another way I have always looked at it.... 99% of the world are at least 80% invested in a two and two only gender system. Many of us here, are lucky to be in the 1% that recognize the flaws in that logic. BUT, our investment in a fluid and dynamic system has very little social capital, because of the blind investment of many others. I am not saying there is something wrong with those people. Black and whites are easy... shades of grade get difficult and messy, and overlap, and aren't easy to define. Male versus Female is comfortable, because it is what is accepted. Gender fluid/open/neutral/queer/flexible can be uncomfortable because we haven't even shaped enough language to talk about it in a way that people who don't come by it naturally can understand even the basic concepts of the importance.

So, where am I going with all of this... I think there has to be a fine balance between fighting the good fight... and just being you without fighting about it. In the end it is your baby. They live with you, they will be shaped by how you shape them. Grandma WILL get them gendered toys and clothes.... It is up to you to make sure that when they are old enough they understand what those toys/clothes mean.... and that they don't define them.

I hope that helps... Let me know if you have any questions about my long mambling of thought!

SIDE NOTE: A and I were at Toys R Us last night getting a gift for one her best friend's nieces and there was this CUTE little girl who climbed right up into the red race car bed and was so excited. Her Dad told her, not to worry, they made one just for her and it was PINK. THE GIRL DIDN'T WANT THE PINK ONE... she wasn't worried... she loved the red car bed. I had to practice deep breathing to not confront her Dad... I just want to tell people... STOP!!! Boxes are for presents.... not people. Let her be her own person. YIKES!

Mystjava · May 2014

I'm going to attach a picture taken on Thursday. My son had picked his prize, I did try to steer him towards something that was more neutral, but he refused! We just went with the flow... BTW - it's my partner who's standing with him.

redrockmama · May 2014

Thanks all. I appreciate your thoughts and insights and a good reality check @doodah1013. I love the clothing part, those are the exact things we don't want either, throwing them in the fire gave me a good laugh. You're right, I don't want to constantly argue with anyone about it and I really hope that we can be the kind of parents we envisions ourselves as and can help our kids understand that they get to decide who they are and how they want to present themselves as they get older. How sad for that little girl at the store

It just seems so simple to ask someone to respect your decisions as a parent, right? I know it's extremely idealistic, but it sure would be nice. My poor sister is vegan and is 100% sure my mom would feed her kids (if she had them) animal products and I completely agree. It's so frustrating.

CageyMack You have a good point, it is very possible that she is trying in her own very special way. I hadn't thought of that before. It's always good to try to think about it in a more positive light. Sometimes I get stuck in my way of thinking for sure.

Mystjava Your son is adorable, thanks for sharing the picture.

I think I will talk to my mom about why her comments are upsetting to me and explain to her why our decisions are so important to us. J suggested I ask her if she'd like me to send her some more info to read on the topic and if she does send some stuff and let her know I'd love to hear her thoughts on it and answer questions. We'll see how it goes.

trisholiosboi · May 2014

I wish we wouldn't have told anyone our baby's sex, for the exact reason doodah gave. I feel that everyone should be buying us items as if we/they did not know the sex. It's pretty annoying to have pink EVERYTHING!

spoonleg · May 2014

Hi, everyone!

I am not LGBT, but came to this board looking for info on this very topic! "Gender-open parenting" - I never knew there was a name for it, but I knew it was something I wanted to incorporate when deciding how to raise our child.

My husband and I are expecting our first. One thing I very much dislike is pigeon-holing children into one gender or the other, not giving them opportunities to explore and express themselves. I absolutely LOATHE the idea of decking out a little girl in "princess" gear or dressing a little boy in sailor-themed outfits or t-shirts that read "Daddy's Little Stud." I do not subscribe to the belief that certain toys, clothes or activities are "for boys" or "for girls." I realize that one's identified gender can fall anywhere on a very large scale, rather than merely Male or Female. I would love for our child to be able to discover his or her own identity and tell/show us what that means to him or her.

I am looking for some guidance in this process, as it is new to me. I know I will also face some difficulties with my family, for although they have good intentions, I am confident that they will do, say and buy many things that will inevitably unravel all of our hard work on this subject. Are there any books or websites you would suggest? Additionally, suggestions about how to explain this to friends and family in a simple, straightforward and non-confrontational way would be appreciated.

healz413 · May 2014

@redrockmama, I wonder what would happen if you asked your mom why it is important to her that male babies wear/have only "boy things" and and that female babies wear/have only "girl things." It might be that a relatively simple question (based around why it is important to her to be able to buy things according to the assigned sex of your baby) would provide you both some valuable insight into where she is coming from.

As for resources, I found this "5 Myths About Gender Neutral Parenting" (https://everydayfeminism.com/2013/01/gender-neutral-parenting-myths/) pretty straight forward and not overly academic. There are lots of different ways of thinking about and approaching these things so I'm not saying that I agree 100% with everything said, but I think it's in the right ballpark for a primer on this issue.

And @spoonleg, we've had a couple other gender open parenting discussions on this board. If you haven't found them yet, it might be interesting for you to look through the archives for them. (Also, I just discovered that if you google "gender open parenting" the Bump discussions on this board come up). Also, this "10 Tips for Raising an Open-Gender Child" might be a good place to start with thinking through the hows and whats of this.

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