Oh my and WOW! Forced c-section article

krgriffin26 · May 2014

https://www.inquisitr.com/1250257/mother-forced-to-have-cesarean-section-and-now-shes-suing/

Um yes I would sue in a heartbeat.

mamatohne · May 2014

Just going to play the Devils advocate, and I know the article doesn't say, but if a woman is refusing a c-section and the baby/mother is in danger, is the doctor suppose to just sit back and let things happen? I have to have a repeat c-section with this baby. I had a c-section with my son because his head and shoulders were huge (his head was 1 cm smaller than my 18 month old nieces at the time) and as much as I Did NOT want to so it at first, my baby was healthy and perfect. The article also doesn't say how far apart her kids are. In order to be "in the clear" from a c-section your kids should be at least 28 months apart. If not you have a huge chance of placenta rupturing. (This is why I have to have a repeat) On the other hand if it was medically unnecessary I'd be pissed.

PandaCon · May 2014

I agree to an extent with @tarynleann I think the article leave a lot out.

-Why did the Dr reccomend a c-section?

-How far along was the woman?

-How far between births?

-How long in labor?

-etc....

I mean I feel like we could use more info but either way being forced into a c-section would be terrible if that is in fact what really happened.

momtojad · May 2014

I believe it is still the mother's decision if she is conscience and aware. The doctor has to listen to that because it isn't his body. Doctors have to listen when religion dictates care and sometimes the patient dies because of their beliefs so I feel that if he wish was to not have surgery then they shouldn't do it.

mamatohne · May 2014

But its a catch 22, what if the mom or baby died and he didn't do a c-section. They can sue then too!
I will restate I do not think anyone should be forced into anything like a c-section.

TXSparky · May 2014

Wow. This just leaves me shaking I am so upset. My C section was absolutely coerced during what I now believe was transition. Neither my baby or I was in danger. I honestly think the Dr just wanted to go home because it was getting late. It's that experience and stories like this that made me decide to have an out of hospital birth with a midwife this time. When I told my midwife my story and how I was nearly fully dialated (just a lip left) she asked why I had a c section. All I could do was shrug with tears in my eyes and say "I trusted my Dr. I made a mistake."

Study up and be your own advocate ladies! And get someone to be there to support you who knows your wishes and will fight for you!

MrsLillyG · May 2014

yea I mean. I would bet she's a crazy lady before any mal practice on the doctors part.

absolutelymaybe · May 2014

I echo what PPs have said, this article leaves out a lot. WHY did the doctor want to do a C-section? I'n a FTM, so excuse my ignorance, I just don't see a doctor sitting there saying someone has to have a C-section if the vaginal birth was progressing as it should.

DH has a cousin that just had a baby and there were problems with her vaginal birth, but she refused to have a C-section. Now the baby is in the children's hospital with life-threatening conditions because it was not out in time.

Should she have been FORCED to have a c-section? I won't even get into that argument. I would hope a mother would just be smart enough to know when to get over herself and her idea of a vaginal birth in order to save her baby's life.

krgriffin26 · May 2014

From what I am reading in the article, the woman sought medical opinions about the VBAC and this Dr ok'ed her. So I would think that she met the criteria to try VBAC. I also read from the article that she was coerced into the C-section from the time she arrived at the hospital at the beginning of her labor. So from this my take would be that neither she nor the baby were in danger at that point. Not only was she given the c-senction without consent, the dr actually perforated her bladder causing harm.

Medical Malpractice has so many rules around it. It would be hard to determine the her experience will have lasting physical effects. She will recover and the baby was not harmed. So from that stance, Med Mal probably wouldn't work or it would be very difficult. But...to me it looks like she has a change at something more along the lines of assault or violation or rights.

Who knows.... I just thought it was interesting, a good topic starter, and would get me to be more open and clear of what my plan is with my doctors. Happy Thursday!

mamatohne · May 2014

As she coerced or was she told this is a possibility because you have had two prev. ? We weren't there we don't know. But I'm always in the mood for a great debate.

jlove253 · May 2014

tarynleann said:
But its a catch 22, what if the mom or baby died and he didn't do a c-section. They can sue then too!
I will restate I do not think anyone should be forced into anything like a c-section.

I think if she'd refused the hospital could have had her sign a doc saying she was informed of the risks and wouldn't comply with a c-section, and then the hospital wouldn't have been responsible for the death/s of mom and/or baby.

While it does leave out some info, I think the article raises a good point. Our c-sec rate in the US is so much higher than it needs to be. And as pp said, there are times when they happen and people can't give a good reason why. I was so scared of one when pregnant with dd because DH and I were both very big babies and she was measuring big too. I ended up pushing for 3 hours to get her out, and while she got stuck, had a ginormous head, and Needed a lot of massaging and manipulating to get out, she was ultimately born vaginally. I am so glad I didn't need a c section and am praying for the same results this time.

ssstephanie214 · May 2014

wow, this article is awful. but, i think this woman's got a great case. not only on battery/informed consent, but the doctor perforated her bladder during the c-section!!!

@momtojad is stating the basis for the informed consent laws.

so @tarynleann, if mom or baby died after refusing, i don't think she'd have much of a case against the doctor. it'd be like the jehovah's witness dying after refusing a blood transfusion--the doctor isn't on the hook for following the patient's stated, conscious wishes to refuse treatment.

@krgriffin26 , you're stating that because there might be problems detecting the extent of permanent damage and that there was no harm to the baby, she'd have a hard time proving malpractice. i disagree. your statement goes to damages, or what she'd be able to recover $$$-wise. but that is only one element of the doctor's negligence. certainly, perforating a woman's bladder is not an intended consequence of a c-section. it seems like more of the doctor's mistake. it doesn't matter if there's permanent damage, but if there's any damage. she'll probably have to go to a doctor to monitor the bladder healing, she might have to have follow-up surgery, any of these things could restore her 100% so she has no "permanent" damage. but a complete physical recovery wouldn't necessarily bar a lawsuit here (though it may affect a monetary reward).

i know it wasn't clear in the article, but a lot of hospitals with these crazy high c-section rates have policies and protocols for when c-sections should occur. what kills me about it is that they're not aimed at safety for mom and baby, but instead at insulating their institution and doctors from liability. it seems like they're thinking about minimizing costs and lawsuits, not good medical judgment.

tms4383 · May 2014

This is crazy. But, like PPs, I think that it's leaving out a lot of information. I was *hoping* to be a candidate for VBAC. My little boy was delivered by emergency c-section 3 weeks before his due date. My boy was a breech baby all the way up to 37 weeks. I had an appointment to try and manually turn him (what that entails, I am not so sure...I didn't want to scare myself by Googling it. LOL.). Come to find out, they couldn't turn him because I didn't have enough fluid to make it safe for him. My doctor was concerned about letting him grow any longer with not enough fluid. So, she made the call to deliver that day.

Fast forward 10-11 months, I am pregnant again. I researched VBACs as soon as I found out. t doesn't look like I'm a candidate because of how close my pregnancies are. Doc said the same thing, but it's not impossible. So, we will see. But, from what I have read, there is no guarantee that you will be able to have VBAC. There are so many things to take into consideration. You may be an good candidate at the beginning of the pregnancy, but as time goes on, your odds may go down.

Now, I am NOT saying that she should have been forced. But, what I am questioning is, was she truly forced? Was she refusing the c-section simply because she wanted a VBAC? Were there risks that the article isn't mentioning that made the doctor believe this was what was best for her and the baby?

Basically, I NEED MORE INFORMATION! But, it truly is a scary thought...

SarahHeck · May 2014

My friend is a nurse and she told me that she has worked with a few doctors that she felt did c-sections and episiotomies cause they wanted to get it over with and leave. There are a lot of good doctors out there doing the right things too though and they help a lot of crazies. This lady could have refused to sign the hospital's papers saying she was liable for her decisions. There really just isn't enough info in this article. I really hate it when a few bad seeds make life harder for good people.

mamameg11 · May 2014

This article seems to lack a lot of material facts and seems skewed in favor of the mother's suit. While I think everyone who is a candidate for a VBAC, should have their trial of labor if they want it, sometimes its just not in the cards. I personally know several women whose desire to have either a natural/at home birth or a VBAC has resulted in serious labor complications, which ended with the death of the baby. It would be nice if everyone could have the labor experience they want or plan for. But at the end of the day they need to do what's best for them or the baby, even if its contrary to their labor plan. This woman may have been in denial about the situation and not truly a good candidate for a VBAC at the time of delivery. With all the important facts missing, like why the doctor felt she needed the c section, its hard to really have an opinion.

nicnac817 · May 2014

I get so twitchy when people start the vbac debate.

nicnac817 · May 2014

Watch the business of being born 1 and 2. I think lots of the ladies here will learn some interesting and valuable info about how our country handles birth nowadays. The risks of uterine rupture and what constitutes an actual uterine rupture (which is very very small ) vs. repeat cesarean. Women need to educate themselves. You could be in the same situation as this woman, you never know.

iheartscraps · May 2014

krgriffin26 said:

https://www.inquisitr.com/1250257/mother-forced-to-have-cesarean-section-and-now-shes-suing/

Um yes I would sue in a heartbeat.

This is terrible, absolutely terrible and I'm so glad you posted for us. My mom worked at that hospital and they have major issues. I'm going to post Ricky Lake's Netflix documentary. We need to all watch it, I'm going to watch it again.

iheartscraps · May 2014

Found it, the name of the documentary is called, the Business of being born by Ricki Lake its a documentary.

nicnac817 · May 2014

lissydee said:
and even if, for some reason, there was fetal distress, and the woman was of sound mind to make an autonomous decision for herself and her child (as in, she understood the risks of not going to the OR) and still refused a section.........then we're still okay with forced surgery on her? Why does some man in a suit somewhere (hospital attorney) get to make a decision for a woman that she is capable of making herself?

This is why more women are choosing to have home birth. This whole topic makes my blood pressure rise.

krgriffin26 · May 2014

Obviously the material in the article is not letting us in on the whole story. But I will say that my firm (and all the med mal firms I know) are very cautious about filing med mal suits. You have to have facts, witnesses to the incident, experts in the field and as much evidence as you can to file a proper suit without it bing dismissed immediately. It's not cut an dry as I was trying to say earlier. Obviously the case has merit if it was filed.

PandaCon · May 2014

iheartscraps said:

krgriffin26 said:

https://www.inquisitr.com/1250257/mother-forced-to-have-cesarean-section-and-now-shes-suing/

Um yes I would sue in a heartbeat.

This is terrible, absolutely terrible and I'm so glad you posted for us. My mom worked at that hospital and they have major issues. I'm going to post Ricky Lake's Netflix documentary. We need to all watch it, I'm going to watch it again.

@iheartscraps Don't tell me what to do.

lissydee said:

and even if, for some reason, there was fetal distress, and the woman was of sound mind to make an autonomous decision for herself and her child (as in, she understood the risks of not going to the OR) and still refused a section.........then we're still okay with forced surgery on her? Why does some man in a suit somewhere (hospital attorney) trump the woman's decision that she is capable of making herself?

I agree. I just feel like the article left some stuff out. I know that this happens and I know a lot of women who have had very successful VBAC's even though the Dr. didn't think they should.

Regardless of fetal distress a woman of sound mind and body should not have surgery forced on her.

SweetMelissa5 · May 2014

tarynleann said:

The article also doesn't say how far apart her kids are. In order to be "in the clear" from a c-section your kids should be at least 28 months apart. If not you have a huge chance of placenta rupturing. (This is why I have to have a repeat) On the other hand if it was medically unnecessary I'd be pissed.

tms4383 said:

Fast forward 10-11 months, I am pregnant again. I researched VBACs as soon as I found out. t doesn't look like I'm a candidate because of how close my pregnancies are. Doc said the same thing, but it's not impossible. So, we will see.

I just want to address these two points really quickly, but my second was born 19 months after my oldest, and my third was 20 months after that, and my doctors were all very supportive of my desire to VBAC without any mention ever being made of there not being enough time between pregnancies (same for this one who will be about 22 months after my third). My VBAC attempts have both been successful, and I have no reason to believe that this time will be any different.

Obviously there can be many other reasons that someone is not a good candidate, but less than a year between birth and a new pregnancy is not necessarily one.

mamatohne · May 2014

Different people, different doctors.
I have so many reasons for being so open to have a repeat c-section. One being I was so resistant to having one in the first place, (when In all actuality there was reason for me to have one) that once I held my perfect baby in my arms, I felt so guilty about not putting him ahead of my feelings. (Please do not take this as I think people who have vbacs do not) so this time I'm ready to be OK with whatever doctor thinks is right for me. I trust her to do what is best for me and my baby.
I would also like to say again, I do not agree with what the doctor did in the article. There was just not enough information for me to even think the lady was 100% right.

tms4383 · May 2014

I just want to address these two points really quickly, but my second was born 19 months after my oldest, and my third was 20 months after that, and my doctors were all very supportive of my desire to VBAC without any mention ever being made of there not being enough time between pregnancies (same for this one who will be about 22 months after my third). My VBAC attempts have both been successful, and I have no reason to believe that this time will be any different.

Obviously there can be many other reasons that someone is not a good candidate, but less than a year between birth and a new pregnancy is not necessarily one.

This gives me hope!

)

Doc said it's up in the air...but, not to get my hopes up because we won't know for sure until the time comes. He did say that the close pregnancies is a red flag though. We will see what happens!

And, wow...your babies are so close in age!!! I have a stepdaughter that is 2 1/2 and a son that just turned 1. And, this baby and my son will be 18 months apart. I know that it is going to be outrageously crazy around here! I'm excited and terrified at the same time!! Lol.

batesae · May 2014

Lurking from Dec. How women are treated during labor. I'm part of Vbac FB group and have learned so much from them. Some drs can and do coerce women into cs(1st and repeat). And not all vbac supportive drs are not really that supportive and still push for rcs. I will be going for a vba2c after a failed vbac due to a breech baby. I really wish I was more educated about birth with my first and I could have possibly prevented my first cs...Good luck to all the vbac mamas!

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