October 2014 Moms

Maternity Leave - Does the US value mothering?

I thought this article was really interesting. I'd heard about the video they reference but still haven't watched it...I understand the point they're trying to make so I don't feel like I need to watch.

However, the article is about so much more than that. It basically asserts that the value that a country places on mothering (and fathering) is apparent in it's maternity/paternity leave policies. It claims that countries who acknowledge the significance of a baby's first months for bonding, attachment, establishing breastfeeding, etc., will have better maternity leave policies, which includes longer leave and guaranteed paid leave.

It is a pretty neat look at maternity leave around the world, and presents some interesting points. I thought it might make for some good discussion:

"We make mothers choose between spending a month with their newborn child or keeping a roof over their child's head. That's not how it looks in countries that value the work mothers do."

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Read the article here:
https://www.vox.com/2014/5/12/5708362/how-america-makes-the-worldshardestjob-even-harder
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Re: Maternity Leave - Does the US value mothering?

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  • @MrMrsandBaby‌ I think that's exactly why these articles are written. Because nobody is doing a thing about it...and maybe just maybe one of these days some article will compel someone to act who actually COULD do/organize something to bring about real change.

    ...and also they're written to complain. :P
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  • I agree with @MrMrsandBaby that most people don't do anything about it. If you really want change you need to do something...

    But I'm not so sure that most people in this country realize how much of the world does it differently. I could be wrong, but in my experience there's a large subset of the population that stays pretty U.S.-centric and when asked, would probably guess that what we're used to here is the norm most places.
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  • Holy shit. I knew Canada had a longer leave than we did, but I didnt realize theirs is also paid?! :-<






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  • themissthemiss member

    I'm from Canada, but I have friends living in the US who get about 3 months of leave, I think. One is a nurse, and we were discussing how hard it would be to go back to work with a three month old baby! And I know someone else who just ot six weeks off!

    I am very thankful for our maternity leave in Canada. I get a year off, and it's paid but at about 50% so it can be a HUGE struggle. There are private companies who will match the difference so the new parent is earning the same amount of income...wish my place of employment would do that!

     It's a BOY! Est. Due Date - October 17th

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  • When I read the title of this post my original reaction was "LOL no"
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    ::two chest pumps and a peace sign for Jenn:: ~ MrsJudgeyPants 

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  • @themiss - FMLA in the US gives you up to 12 weeks but it is unpaid unless you have STD or a company plan/PTO that covers some time.  Most STD policies consider delivering a baby a 6 week disability so it can be paid - but rarely at 100%

    And FMLA is only for companies that qualify so not everyone gets it.
    Lilypie - (JrNi)

    Lilypie - (y35Q)

  • Most women in the US DO, in fact, receive some level of maternity pay.  For many women, this is 6-8 weeks of STD payments at ~55% of their normal salary.  Some positions have additional maternity benefits on top of this.  If you've been working at the same place for a year, you are guaranteed 12 weeks of job-protected leave -- and usually, some of this is paid by STD.

    Yeah, it could be better, but it isn't actually true that most women in the US get nothing.
    My company doesn't even have a maternity policy in place because no one here has ever been pregnant before.  I told them about my plans for starting a family before we conceived and to this day, they still have nothing in place, so I don't even know what I get.

    I do know that they do not offer short term disability here, and we don't have paid sick days, only vacation days, of which I won't have much if any because of all my doctor's appointments that are using them up.

    I've also looked at our employee handbook and it says nothing about FMLA.

    I asked my direct boss last week if she knew anything about my maternity leave yet so I can start planning and she said that she thinks I should write up what I want so that she can compare it to what the CEO comes up with.  She did say, however, it would be unpaid.

    So, there's at least one woman here who gets nothing!

    Also, @themiss - I would LOVE to be getting paid 50% while on a year long maternity leave!  Don't complain too much! ;)
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  • Most women in the US DO, in fact, receive some level of maternity pay.  For many women, this is 6-8 weeks of STD payments at ~55% of their normal salary.  Some positions have additional maternity benefits on top of this.  If you've been working at the same place for a year, you are guaranteed 12 weeks of job-protected leave -- and usually, some of this is paid by STD.

    Yeah, it could be better, but it isn't actually true that most women in the US get nothing.
    IF your employer qualifies for FMLA - not everyone gets that benefit. 

    And the point is that it isn't maternity leave, it is STD.  So if your employer doesn't offer it, or you don't qualify for it, you don't get it.  Not every employee is eligible for STD even if the company provides it (waiting periods, may not be in an eligible class of employees, etc.).
    Lilypie - (JrNi)

    Lilypie - (y35Q)

  • themissthemiss member
    Also, @themiss - I would LOVE to be getting paid 50% while on a year long maternity leave!  Don't complain too much! ;)

    Oh! No, I wasn't complaining. I realize, as a country, we're lucky! But 50%ish of my salary is very low. I'm lucky also that my fiancee has decent pay, so we should be fine.

    Sort of a double edged sword. A lot of people go back to work early because they simply cannot afford it to take the whole year off.

     It's a BOY! Est. Due Date - October 17th

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  • lrobi13lrobi13 member

    I am eliegble for my company's std policy in April :(

    So next baby will be covered but not this one.

  • the "maternity leave" in the US is laughable. I don't like reading the articles because they just PISS me off! I have to use sick leave and vacation that I've accumulated. They pay for disability but there's a 30 day waiting period and then it only pays until your doctor releases you to go to back to work. So it'll pay for like 2 weeks. Big whoop! I should be lucky I get health insurance at all. At least that's a step forward for me...
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  • Most women in the US DO, in fact, receive some level of maternity pay.  For many women, this is 6-8 weeks of STD payments at ~55% of their normal salary.  Some positions have additional maternity benefits on top of this.  If you've been working at the same place for a year, you are guaranteed 12 weeks of job-protected leave -- and usually, some of this is paid by STD.

    Yeah, it could be better, but it isn't actually true that most women in the US get nothing.
    This article is looking at the benefits the state provides, and STD is purely up to the discretion of the employer to provide or not to provide. And true, many of us get it, but I'd venture it's more common for professional women, and that those working minimum wage jobs and living paycheck to paycheck do not have an employer who gives them STD insurance.

    I remember when I was pregnant with DD our DC-based HR manager made it sound like the company was doing me a favor by extending the DC FMLA rules (16 weeks unpaid leave instead of 12) to field-based employees.  I told her I'd much rather I get the Ukraine minimum- a year paid by the state (though capped at a fairly low amount), a guaranteed position for three years (which I think goes a bit far) and the choice to stop working at 30 weeks of pregnancy.  


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  • To be clear, in Canada it is approx 50% of a max $55k income, and so for myself and others in my industry (finance) maternity 'pay' results in a huge cash flow reduction. Most of my colleagues have gone back to work at 4-6 months as they can't handle the reduction in income. That being said, it's certainly better than what you girls in the US get so I'm not complaining - just don't move here too soon -we pay for it in other ways (higher income tax, higher taxes on goods, etc).
  • ss265ss265 member

    Just playing devil's advocate here. If policies change and the U.S. does start extending maternity leave for women, don't you think that more companies would hesitate to hire women of child bearing age? I wonder how often that happens in other countries where they have longer maternity leaves. Or how often they make up reasons for letting go of someone who is pregnant because they don't want to be on the hook for paying such a long maternity leave.

    Not saying that the current policy is right but just pointing out that longer maternity leaves could have detrimental effects.

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  • ss265 said:

    Just playing devil's advocate here. If policies change and the U.S. does start extending maternity leave for women, don't you think that more companies would hesitate to hire women of child bearing age? I wonder how often that happens in other countries where they have longer maternity leaves. Or how often they make up reasons for letting go of someone who is pregnant because they don't want to be on the hook for paying such a long maternity leave.

    Not saying that the current policy is right but just pointing out that longer maternity leaves could have detrimental effects.

    They'd get their asses handed to them in court if that happened. But, as unfair and unconstitutional as it is, it's the truth. 

    I went on an interview in my last year of law school with a big time lawyer in a nearby town. He got into my personal information (which he isn't supposed to do, but what am I going to say mid-interview?!). When he found out I was divorced, he said "Good! My advice - don't get married or have kids for at least 10 years. You'll be much more employable then." 
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    ::two chest pumps and a peace sign for Jenn:: ~ MrsJudgeyPants 

    This is legal advice. Circa 2011 image
  • I'm terrified to learn the details of my work's maternity leave. I make more money than my husband so I can't quit. Meaning I have to go back as soon as I can to make sure we can still care for our child.
  • narabugnarabug member
    I'm not planning to go back to work, but if I was I could maybe get 3 weeks paid, if I hadn't used any of my vacation or sick time for the year up to that point, and I had already used a week of it for moving before we found out I was pregnant, so I could maybe get paid for 2 weeks. The rest of my time off would be unpaid through FMLA, which I do qualify for.

    My employer, and my husband's employer don't even offer STD so we would have had to get it through someone else, which before this year's healthcare changes would have been pretty difficult. I'm sure even if I had gotten it January 1st I wouldn't be eligible for it for this pregnancy due to a waiting period.
  • It's not just maternity leave and women that the US treats like shit, it's employees in general. Compared to other countries, we fall way behind on vacation days and workplace happiness in general. The US workforce treats women like shit, but then again so does a vast majority of the media, and other women for that matter. I read this article a few months ago, and thought it was interesting. 

  • MrsSarahReneeMrsSarahRenee member
    edited May 2014
    I can take 8 weeks paid but I have to use my saved up sick time. I am lucky that I can use it but it is stressful knowing that I will be left with 4 days (give or take) if baby gets sick. I can take unpaid days after that but I can risk my job for taking too many unpaid days. 

    In addition, if I want the four more weeks under FMLA, they are unpaid. I am not sure how that will work as far as paying them or taking cuts in future pay checks for my medical insurance, union dues and pension payments. 

    A lot to think about and I will probably just go back after 8 weeks because it is all too stressful to think of four weeks without pay. I currently make more money than DH.

    ETA: Changed my wording - I hate the expression breadwinner and I originally used it. *Shudder*
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  • As someone else said, my first response to this post was "LOL, nope," but the Libertarian in me doesn't believe it's my country's responsibility to value my mothering.  My government should build roads and bridges, enforce laws, levy and spend taxes responsibly on basic social services and security.  Otherwise I don't want it's hands on anything.  I don't want them telling me what I have to buy, who I can and cannot marry, and I certainly don't want them telling my employer that they have to keep my job secure for a year, so I can stay home and be a mother, a choice I freely made without considering my employer or my government.

    It's my responsibility to raise children who can be contributing members of society (and if in the event I have a child who cannot due to disabilities, then it's my responsibility to get a trust set up for them, so it doesn't fall on anyone else as well).  I will do this in the best way I see fit, and if that means I stay home full time, stay home for 12 weeks, or stay home for 2 days, I don't see how the government or my employer "allowing" a set amount of time has any bearing on it. 

    Our family background: We live much lower than our means, so we can change our employment situations at any time based on the needs of our family.  My son thrives at daycare, but if this next child doesn't do well with daycare, then I stay home, and we're still going to have fully funded retirements, be debt free, and have our house paid for in 5 years.  This isn't because we make insane amounts of money, it's because we choose to live reasonable, responsible, and sustainable lives.  We got married 6 years ago, and we both came to the marriage with ridiculous debt and spending habits compared to our income.  We've made changes, buckled down, and realized we wanted a better life for ourselves and our future family, and we turned it around in a relatively small amount of time.  This is what makes our country great!  That is the American dream, not a year long, paid maternity leave.   

     

    Me: unexplained infertility - annovulatory DH: testicular cancer survivor!! TTC since June 2009 BFP May 11, 2012 EDD January 24, 2013 June 1, 2012 - first u/s, heartbeat 124 BPM!! June 22, 2012 - heard the heartbeat 9w1d 181 BPM!! 24 hours of labor, 4 1/2 hours of pushing, and IT'S A BOY! Welcome to the world my miracle, we prayed and prayed for you, and we can't believe you're here!
  • Nicb13 said:





    Most women in the US DO, in fact, receive some level of maternity pay.  For many women, this is 6-8 weeks of STD payments at ~55% of their normal salary.  Some positions have additional maternity benefits on top of this.  If you've been working at the same place for a year, you are guaranteed 12 weeks of job-protected leave -- and usually, some of this is paid by STD.

    Yeah, it could be better, but it isn't actually true that most women in the US get nothing.

    I'm clearly in the wrong industry because I've never worked anywhere that offered paid maternity leave (of course, I work in publishing, which is notorious for shitty pay and benefits). My job pays for two weeks of leave, I believe, which is more than previous employers. I can't sign up for STD because I'm already pregnant (you can sign up for it before you're pregnant, though, which I didn't know until it was too late). 




    Same with me in regards to STD. I don't pay for that through my work so I'd have to apply elsewhere but it's too late. I work in healthcare and get the 12 weeks of unpaid leave BUT I have to use up my PTO and EI first, then the rest is unpaid.

    This for me too.

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  • Issues like this always make me wonder why American celebrities work so hard for causes in other countries when there are plenty of US issues.

    I don't need someone to fight my battles when like pp said I don't send letters or put forth effort in this BUT it would be nice if they would fight battles like this on their own turf.
  • Most women in the US DO, in fact, receive some level of maternity pay.  For many women, this is 6-8 weeks of STD payments at ~55% of their normal salary.  Some positions have additional maternity benefits on top of this.  If you've been working at the same place for a year, you are guaranteed 12 weeks of job-protected leave -- and usually, some of this is paid by STD.

    Yeah, it could be better, but it isn't actually true that most women in the US get nothing.
    I'm clearly in the wrong industry because I've never worked anywhere that offered paid maternity leave (of course, I work in publishing, which is notorious for shitty pay and benefits). My job pays for two weeks of leave, I believe, which is more than previous employers. I can't sign up for STD because I'm already pregnant (you can sign up for it before you're pregnant, though, which I didn't know until it was too late). 

    Forgive me if this has already been said, but all the STD plans that I looked into were only for non-typical births. I would not receive benefits if I had a standard vaginal delivery, so I would have had to gone into premature labor or had a c-section or had twins or been declared high-risk. Because pushing a baby out of my vag isn't enough to qualify for insurance. SO SHITTY.
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  • I think the us policies are so upsetting. I work for a non-profit/social service company and you can take 3-6 months off and still get insurance. However none of it is paid. You can use all your paid time off and then apply for FMLA but I heard from another co-worker that money basically covers diapers. I think it's upsetting compared to the rest of the western world and people seem to be shocked when they find out there is no paid leave in the us. Ugh wish it could change!

    TTC #1 since Summer 2013
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  • Nicb13 said:



    I can take 8 weeks paid but I have to use my saved up sick time. I am lucky that I can use it but it is stressful knowing that I will be left with 4 days (give or take) if baby gets sick. I can take unpaid days after that but I can risk my job for taking too many unpaid days. 

    In addition, if I want the four more weeks under FMLA, they are unpaid. I am not sure how that will work as far as paying them or taking cuts in future pay checks for my medical insurance, union dues and pension payments. 

     
     

    After I use my time off and extended illness hours, I will have probably 4 weeks of unpaid leave. I still have to pay for my medical insurance during the time that I'm not getting paid. I don't have that much time off saved up because of having a 2 year old and needing so much time off over the last 2 years with him :(

    To counteract not getting pay checks for a few weeks of my maternity leave, we have been saving money to "pay" myself while I am out. We did that last time around and it worked well.

    Good idea! I should start planning that out.
    Unfortunately, I have to miss out on some bonus checks I usually get in the fall for extra classes I teach in the evenings. *sigh* it will all work out. In the end, I am lucky to be a teacher and have vacations with baby anyway. Of course school weeks will be hard with bringing home so much work/grading.

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  • My company doesn't even have a maternity policy in place because no one here has ever been pregnant before.  I told them about my plans for starting a family before we conceived and to this day, they still have nothing in place, so I don't even know what I get.

    I do know that they do not offer short term disability here, and we don't have paid sick days, only vacation days, of which I won't have much if any because of all my doctor's appointments that are using them up.

    I've also looked at our employee handbook and it says nothing about FMLA.

    I asked my direct boss last week if she knew anything about my maternity leave yet so I can start planning and she said that she thinks I should write up what I want so that she can compare it to what the CEO comes up with.  She did say, however, it would be unpaid.

    So, there's at least one woman here who gets nothing!

    I hear you! I've been with my company for 2 1/2 years, and this is my second baby, but with the first I took time but I wasn't up to full caseload yet, so I didn't get anything paid. I've been talking with them about wanting another child for the last year to year and a half, and they will give me whatever time I want off, but they haven't offered to pay for any of it. 

    They recommended STD, but to get it on my own would mean it excludes maternity leave, and my company is still "working" on offering it. I don't get PTO or vacation/sick days, so I'm basically paying for whatever time I want off out of pocket. They do have FMLA, so at least there will be a job for me when I get back.

    I also get paid per client, so I'm hoping there's not too much fluctuation on either end of my leave to mess with, but I guess we'll see!
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  • I now stay at home but my previous job only had FMLA in place. I had job protection for 12 weeks but none of it was paid. I saved up 4 weeks of vacation time and took an extra 4 weeks unpaid. In order to save up my vacation time I was allowed to put in extra hours for the time I missed due to doctors appointments. 
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  • Most women in the US DO, in fact, receive some level of maternity pay.  For many women, this is 6-8 weeks of STD payments at ~55% of their normal salary.  Some positions have additional maternity benefits on top of this.  If you've been working at the same place for a year, you are guaranteed 12 weeks of job-protected leave -- and usually, some of this is paid by STD.

    Yeah, it could be better, but it isn't actually true that most women in the US get nothing.
    STD? Just wondering what that stands for. My company is small and while they'll let me have up to 4 months of maternity leave it is unpaid - they do continue to pay health benefits. I found out I can get disability insurance (is that what you mean by STD?) - but have to say offended by the fact that they label a women on maternity leave disabled - definitely not a woman who made that up... but the disability is only for 6-8 weeks after delivery and while its 50% of salary there is a max and that max is pretty low - so it will be more like 20% of my actual salary. Wish gov't in general paid more attention to needs of women - its not just pregnancy and maternity but most insurance companies cover limited to no fertility treatments - and even prenatal coverage is a bit of a joke - as they cover dr's appts and delivery but U/S, blood work, etc...all copays - bc that stuff is not prenatal, right?

    But I agree with some, we can complain all we want - don't see much changing any time soon.

    Lilypie - (urRB)


  • Nicb13 said:
    I'm terrified to learn the details of my work's maternity leave. I make more money than my husband so I can't quit. Meaning I have to go back as soon as I can to make sure we can still care for our child.

    Um, maybe you should get on that so you can plan! When I got pregnant with DS, I had already known all the details of the maternity leave policy for my work. It's good to have that information.
    Ashcakes - have same problem - if I were you, I'd find out. I started putting money into savings the moment we started trying to help cover the cost of my unpaid maternity leave - now we have a cushion to help out and its made the whole thing less stressful.

    Lilypie - (urRB)


  • @Nicb13‌ @atraveller‌ I guess I should clarify. I know the basics of my works maternity leave but I just have to call human resources about the details. I think I technically have to pay for short term disability and then they'll pay me just over half of what I make. But the details are fuzzy
  • Everyone is forgetting 1 important factor in this equations: Most of these countries have astronomically large rates of taxation.
  • MrMrsandBabyMrMrsandBaby member
    edited May 2014
    bennikki said:

    As someone else said, my first response to this post was "LOL, nope," but the Libertarian in me doesn't believe it's my country's responsibility to value my mothering.  My government should build roads and bridges, enforce laws, levy and spend taxes responsibly on basic social services and security.  Otherwise I don't want it's hands on anything.  I don't want them telling me what I have to buy, who I can and cannot marry, and I certainly don't want them telling my employer that they have to keep my job secure for a year, so I can stay home and be a mother, a choice I freely made without considering my employer or my government.

    ::snip::

    See, I want to agree with some of this but I don't agree that it isn't the country's responsibility to value mothering.  You said you are responsible for raising your children to be "contributing members of society" so wouldn't the country have a vested interest in making sure you have all the means available to you to help do that?  Part of that is being able to take time away from work to be with your child during the first year or so of life.  This country is dependent on future generations so I think it is well within the scope of the government to help provide the best possible start for them.
    Lilypie - (JrNi)

    Lilypie - (y35Q)

  • @Nicb13‌ @atraveller‌ I guess I should clarify. I know the basics of my works maternity leave but I just have to call human resources about the details. I think I technically have to pay for short term disability and then they'll pay me just over half of what I make. But the details are fuzzy
    Ahh, okay - got it. And sounds fuzzy. The one advantage of a small company - simple policy, disadvantage - no paid leave :(

    Lilypie - (urRB)


  • hincklsa said:
    Everyone is forgetting 1 important factor in this equations: Most of these countries have astronomically large rates of taxation.
    Good point - but the U.S. has long been known for having a puritanical work ethic and paying only lip service to things like vacation time, work/life balance, etc....so no big surprise that maternity leave is equally not valued. But....the bigger issue I think is the challenge mom's face in the workforce - some of the stats in those articles posted here are just plain scary. And I know at least a few friends who hid the fact that they were trying and when they got pregnant for fear they'd run into problems at work if they told before they were further along. There are some legal safeguards in place to avoid being fired for pregnancy but not really any for descrimination.

    Lilypie - (urRB)


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