XP: IVF plans terms & condition

princessisadora · April 2014

I already posted this q in Hanging on to a dream check in, but wanted to open up the discussion to a wider audience.
My clinic sent me all the financial info for their cycles. A single cycle is $16k w/out meds. They don't offer any of the arc or attain plans but they can finance you through arc. They offer their own "1 yr plan" in which they include up to 3 fresh Ivf and 3 FET in 12months of continuous treatment. That plan is 21k but you have to pay $1300 every cycle for icsi and meds are not included. What really freaked me out was all the terms. The consider the plan done when you get pregnant which they define as going past 10weeks after that if you lose it you'll have to pay for a brand new cycle! Is that standard?! Enlighten meplease. I just don't think those are fair terms! Forgot to add we are completely OOP , Florida has no IF coverage.

cls78 · April 2014

How is the clinics success rates? I would make sure to really do your homework when picking a clinic to cycle at. The arc and attain programs are for a live birth which sounds much better then the plan your clinic offers.

pjpahel · April 2014

Yikes. Those are hard terms regardless. I have never been offered a package, but the ones I have read about, like through attain, generally said live birth, I thought. Given our circumstances I never considered them as they wouldn't work for us. I agree that I would strongly consider their success rates.

Good luck

Pj

Tea+ · April 2014

My clinic we did...$13,500 for 2 retrievals, Icsi, unlimited FETs and I think 18mths. If I remember correctly. The major thing that sucks is the RE said one counted towards my retrieval eventho they didn't retrieve anything. ]: I am OOP as well so I can understand. Already paid close to (or more) 20k with meds and even prescriptions that did cover some meds. Good luck however you move forward. xo

jszy10 · April 2014

I'm sure every state and clinic is different, but that seems like a pretty poor package to me!? Have you considered traveling for treatment?? I know some people do that because it is cheaper to travel and pay elsewhere.

My clinic is $6500 -- inclusive of everything but meds -- for 1 fresh + 1 frozen. They consider the package complete after ET, and if a loss happens after the fresh, we have 9 months from the loss to take advantage of the frozen.

Milagros315 · April 2014

Yikes that seems expensive for some not so awesome terms. Personally, I would not choose that package (although the cost for a single cycle at your clinic seems really expensive too). I agree with PPs - are there other good clinics in your area? Have you shopped around?

For reference, the packages that I have looked at were A) $20000 for two fresh and tw frozen cycles (though you had to alternate) and

$20000 for six fresh and unlimited frozen cycles. Neither package included meds or extras like ICSI or PGD and they both were considered successful only with a live birth.

princessisadora · April 2014

Thanks for your replies. I agree with all of you and I think it sucks and I think my clinic is really expensive. I had looked at their SART numbers before and they seemed average. I had been thinking for awhile about "shopping" around and I guess this is the push I needed.

Attached are the clinics numbers for 2012. No 2013 data yet. I would love to hear your two cents. Also I will attach the numbers of the other clinic we are considering for a 2nd opinion.

Current Clinic

Fresh Embryos From Non-Donor Oocytes

	<35	35-37	38-40	41-42	>42
Number of cycles	78	70	97	29	17
Percentage of cycles resulting in pregnancies	42.3%	38.6%	28.9%	17.2%	1/17
Percentage of cycles resulting in live births	38.5%	31.4%	23.7%	3.4%	1/17
(Reliability Range)	27.7 - 49.3	20.6 - 42.3	15.2 - 32.2	0 - 10.1
Percentage of retrievals resulting in live births	41.1%	34.4%	27.7%	5%	1/11
Percentage of transfers resulting in live births	46.9%	41.5%	29.9%	1/17	1/9
Percentage of cycles with elective single embryo transfer	9.4%	0%	2.6%	0/17	0/9
Percentage of cancellations	6.4%	8.6%	14.4%	31.0%	6/17
Implantation Rate	41.7%	35.1%	21.3%	16.3%	4.5%
Average number of embryos transferred	2.0	2.2	2.1	2.5	2.4
Percentage of live births with twins	26.7%	31.8%	8.7%	1/1	0/1
Percentage of live births with triplets or more	3.3%	0%	0%	0/1	0/1

Other clinic

Fresh Embryos From Non-Donor Oocytes

	<35	35-37	38-40	41-42	>42
Number of cycles	219	187	153	93	21
Percentage of cycles resulting in pregnancies	54.8%	42.8%	18.3%	19.4%	19.0%
Percentage of cycles resulting in live births	48.4%	38.5%	17.0%	12.9%	14.3%
(Reliability Range)	41.8 - 55.0	31.5 - 45.5	11.0 - 22.9	6.1 - 19.7	0 - 29.3
Percentage of retrievals resulting in live births	51.0%	45.6%	22.2%	16.4%	3/19
Percentage of transfers resulting in live births	58.2%	49.3%	28.9%	25%	3/14
Percentage of cycles with elective single embryo transfer	15.4%	6.2%	2.2%	0%	0/14
Percentage of cancellations	5.0%	15.5%	23.5%	21.5%	9.5%
Implantation Rate	52.3%	39.3%	22.8%	21.2%	16.7%
Average number of embryos transferred	1.8	1.8	1.9	2.1	2.1
Percentage of live births with twins	35.8%	30.6%	19.2%	1/12	0/3
Percentage of live births with triplets or more	3.8%	0%	0%	1/12	0/3

pblge · April 2014

The first clinic's numbers are below the national averages--I wouldn't go to them if I were OOP, and I definitely wouldn't accept those questionable terms. You gave them a chance, and it seems time to move on. The second clinic looks better. Deciding whether to do a package deal is a tough decision, but perhaps see what the second clinic has to offer. Just my two cents.

princessisadora · April 2014

@pblge‌ thanks for your input. I really think I need to give a new clinic a go even though I love my RE.

cls78 · April 2014

I switched clinics for ivf, because my first clinic was below national average. The new clinic you are looking at do more cycles and have better rates. GL to you.

SKLH · April 2014

I'm not a huge obsesser over SART reportrs b/c unfortunatley I feel that some clinics turn down clients in order to keep their statics high but I will agree htat that package is not very good. My package was greatly disoucnted (b/c my husband is in the military) I am not sure on the compelte price but it included 1 fresh, CGH testing, ICSI, assisted hatching and ANY FETs following the transfer to a live birth. I think your 10 week package offer is sneaky. Most pregnancies are still shaking until 12 weeks and even until then it's never a guarentee. I'd go to another clinic for a 2nd opionion and go from there.

pblge · April 2014

Another thing to keep in mind is that people tend to do their first cycle or two at small, local clinics, like you and I did. So the bigger clinics tend to get the more difficult caseloads, which often makes their numbers even more impressive. And, as @NariaDreaming said, the little clinics' small numbers aren't reliable, anyway, especially when you consider that their cases are disproportionately "easy." I do wish that there was an indicator somewhere in the SART data regarding the difficulty of the cases, perhaps an average of the number of previous IVF cycles for each woman involved. I guess the diagnoses tell you something, but not a lot, as "endometriosis" yes/no can mean so many different things!

Pintobean39 · April 2014

I'm still learning about all this and since it looks like we are going to be doing IVF for sure I have been lurking a lot.

My clinic will cost me about 15K (10k for IVF and 5k PGD) for 1 IVF PGD cycle plus meds, my Dr said to expect 25K per cycle because I need lots of meds. From my understanding they don't finance through the office but they gave me a pamphlet for ARC and I called to get the information. For 3 cycles fresh and frozen without PGD or meds is $25K. Since I'm still learning I'm not sure if this is good or not. I also don't have any other clinics around me that I could use without having to fly somewhere and get a hotel room. I did look up the SART and their numbers were good in my age group.

I should be starting my period this week and we will be making an appointment about the IVF an get the full details so I'm not sure when I will start the process but I imagine we will go right into it.

ETA: I'm completely OOP too

cls78 · April 2014

The problem I had with the ARC and Attain programs is that you lost your frozen cycle if you had no frosties. If you did have frosties you had to do in order IVF, Frozen, IVF, Frozen etc. If you end up with plenty of frosties you can do FET cycles and they are so much cheaper. You overpay for IVF if your first cycle works, but you do have peace of mind. It is a really hard decision to make and it is a lot of money.

. I hate that there is so many of us here who have to make these difficult decisions.

princessisadora · April 2014

I agree that some clinics may "play" the statistics game in order to have better numbers and in all honesty what made me seek new clinics is that my current clinic doesn't seem to provide good packages and/or financial options.I made an appointment for the second clinic and I am considering throwing a third one into the mix. I hate to base these decisions on a price tag but at the end of the day the cost will be the determining factor as to when we (DH & I ) have to pull the plug.

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