Still breech and now having to face losing NB goals

JAM85 · April 2014

So I am 35 weeks today and as of
This afternoon she is still frank breech. I have been doing literally everything for over a month now to get her to turn- all the spinning baby moves, swimming, seeing my chiro for websters 3x a week, Moxabustion, even hypnosis tracks
For turning breech babies- you name it I have done it consistently. I know she has some time but I have been holding a lot of anger and frustration at the thought of having to lose my dreams of a natural birth. I mean I have a doula, I have been drinking my tea, sitting on my ball, having dates, etc. But my hospital does not allow breech births and it is the only option for me and I am high risk so at 39 weeks they are going to want to start talking about eviction. Has any other NB mama gone through this?

aylafsu88 · April 2014

It sounds like you have tried most of the obvious things. Have you considered an external version? It may be worth a shot and could turn LO. From what I hear they can be uncomfortable and painful.

Try to stay positive even though it is tough. A friend had her LO turn at 36/37 weeks. One night she was really uncomfortable and thought she might be going into labor so laid down to get some rest/see how things would go. It fizzled out and at her next MW appointment her LO was heads down. The MW thinks LO turned that night she was really uncomfortable and felt like she was having some contractions.
GL!

stripes82 · April 2014

How about you let go of the anger and remember the most important thing is having a happy healthy baby however you end up having him or her.

JAM85 · April 2014

That is precisely the point of the post- I don't think it is unnatural to be upset and feel frustrated when everything you had planned for may not happen for something that is not actually an emergency. I am not upset about the possibility of complications in birth leading to an unavoidable section- I'm upset because what used to be a normal birthing process is no longer so I may have to schedule an elective (as that is what it is called- it isn't an emergent situation) for this which is the farthest from what I wanted. I didn't say I didn't care if my baby was happy and healthy obviously that is my main concern I am upset because I feel like my options have been taken away from me and that is hard to deal with and process. Like I said if I had a medical reason like pre-e or GD for having to do this to ensure the safety of my baby then no brainer- but this is not a medical emergency. So mourning the loss as a FTM (which may then mean I can't have a second chance) at a natural birth is not that easy.

jenn43 · April 2014

I am also a proponent of natural birth, and I also think that modern birth has far too many interventions. But in the case of C-section for breech birth, that is a time where medical intervention does save lives. Vaginal breech birth has worse outcomes according to quite a few studies. So although it's considered "elective", that doesn't mean it's not medically necessary. It just means it's not an emergency. After all, the idea is to prevent an emergency. Compare it to getting a hernia fixed: I think most people would agree this is medically necessary, but it also falls under the category of elective surgery. Maybe you can discuss this with your OB or MW? They might compromise and allow your baby as much time as possible to turn, which the caveat that if baby is still breech when you go into labor, you will have to have a c-section.

That being said, you're right: it's a huge disappointment. Hang in there!

sschwege · April 2014

stripes82 said:

How about you let go of the anger and remember the most important thing is having a happy healthy baby however you end up having him or her.

Perhaps you didn't mean it, but this is probably one of the worst things you can say to someone who has had a c-section or is facing one. The 'at least you have a healthy baby' or 'the most important thing is a happy healthy baby' really invalidates her feelings. As if by being angry about the potential of a c-section means a 'happy, healthy baby' isn't at the top of her priority list.

OP: the only thing I can think of is perhaps trying acupuncture or a version as pp suggested?

sschwege · April 2014

kitchencolors said:

jenn43 said:

I am also a proponent of natural birth, and I also think that modern birth has far too many interventions. But in the case of C-section for breech birth, that is a time where medical intervention does save lives. Vaginal breech birth has worse outcomes according to quite a few studies. So although it's considered "elective", that doesn't mean it's not medically necessary. It just means it's not an emergency. After all, the idea is to prevent an emergency. Compare it to getting a hernia fixed: I think most people would agree this is medically necessary, but it also falls under the category of elective surgery. Maybe you can discuss this with your OB or MW? They might compromise and allow your baby as much time as possible to turn, which the caveat that if baby is still breech when you go into labor, you will have to have a c-section.

That being said, you're right: it's a huge disappointment. Hang in there!

So how do you reconcile the bolded with ACOG's position on breech vaginal births? The problem here is that there aren't medical professionals trained and ready to attend breech births so women are "required" to have surgery instead because there's someone trained and ready to do that. C-sections for breech babies are NOT categorically better/safer for mom and baby.

Agreed!

And not all breech births are the same, so to make a blanket statement and say that vaginal breech births have, 'worse outcomes' is simply not true. It depends on the type of breech and position of the baby's head because there are several different positions, some safer than others. It also depends on the mother, a breech delivery is considered more favorable if the mom has a 'proven pelvis'.

jenn43 · April 2014

kitchencolors said:
So how do you reconcile the bolded with ACOG's position on breech vaginal births? The problem here is that there aren't medical professionals trained and ready to attend breech births so women are "required" to have surgery instead because there's someone trained and ready to do that. C-sections for breech babies are NOT categorically better/safer for mom and baby.

You are absolutely correct: c-sections are not categorically better/safer. "The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists recommends that the decision regarding mode of delivery should depend on the experience of the health care provider. Cesarean delivery will be the preferred mode for most physicians because of the diminishing expertise in vaginal breech delivery." (From PubMed).

So as you pointed out: in this country, with the lack of training regarding vaginal breech deliver, c-section is frequently going to be the safer option. Nothing really to reconcile there.

I was more pointing out that an "elective" intervention can still be medically necessary. It simply means it is scheduled in advance instead of being emergent.

Chichigo · April 2014

I'm sorry you are going through this. I hope your baby turns and you can have the birth you want. I have a few points to consider. Have you met with a midwife, and considered a different hospital? I know it's late to change providers, but I've heard midwives know more about breech delivery than most OBs. You would need to consider the type of breech position, because some have a better chance of vaginal delivery without severe problems than others. If you cannot change hospitals/providers, have you looked into gentle c-sections? I know it's hardto prepare for surgery when you want natural birth, but discussing this ahead of time with your OB as a backup plan can help you find peace with this possibility and preserve things like immediate skin to skin and nursing. Silver lining to scheduling a c-section: you will know which doctor will deliver your baby, and maybe you can pick. Best of luck to you.

Chichigo · April 2014

I did not see the natural c-section thread before posting the above.

stripes82 · April 2014

If you can't change it why be so angry? Yes it's not what you planned but don't stew on something you can not control. Relax, sleep as much as you can cause when baby comes you will need all the energy you can muster.

stripes82 · April 2014

I'm sorry if some of you feel that having a healthy baby is not the most important thing. And some of you are right you should definitely spend these last weeks angry and having other women support you in that anger.

Sleeping, relaxing are two things you will not be able to do again for a long time after you have baby. So if you would prefer to upset over something you can not change then go ahead.

Sam0905 · April 2014

I just wanted to say that I totally understand how you feel and it's perfectly normal to be frustrated/angry. I'm currently 35+2 and baby is still breech. However, I also have mild pre-e so as long as everything stays stable I will be induced at 37 weeks. Since my plans for a medication free childbirth went out the window with my pre-e diagnosis, I'd at least like to have a vaginal birth but I have a much shorter timeline to get baby to turn. I've tried inversion exercises, going to the chiropractor, and moxibustion. I know it might be hard, but try to think positively. My midwife suggested mindfully picturing your baby flipping. Also try playing music near your pelvis or having your SO talk your baby near your pelvis (kind of weird to have someone talk to your crotch, but it could work!). I've also heard of people putting something cold near the top of the uterus and something warm near the pelvis to encourage turning. How do you feel about ECV? I have one scheduled for next week - hopefully it works if all else fails! Good luck to you!

aylafsu88 · April 2014

stripes82 said:

I'm sorry if some of you feel that having a healthy baby is not the most important thing. And some of you are right you should definitely spend these last weeks angry and having other women support you in that anger.

Sleeping, relaxing are two things you will not be able to do again for a long time after you have baby. So if you would prefer to upset over something you can not change then go ahead.

Well you are quite a peach! Yes OP wants a healthy, happy baby and that it most important to her but it is frustrating to plan for birth and possibly not have your plans work out. As Kitchencolors mentioned having a C/S is not necessarily better or safer for mom or baby and some of the reasons that OBs push C/S are ridiculous.

OP has every right to be upset that she may have to have a C/S. In this country at this time it will really limit her possibilities of having a vaginal birth again as many providers automatically refuse to do VBACs even though there is little evidence against them. I am sorry OP that you are upset and I know that I would be in the same place if I was in your situation. FX your LO will turn.

CaptainVajazzle · April 2014

Oh, does sleep banking work? I was not aware of that medical knowledge. Let me sleep for the next 3 weeks so I can have a ton of energy when the baby is here.

:::drops mic:::

....Vajazzle out.

stripes82 said:
If you can't change it why be so angry? Yes it's not what you planned but don't stew on something you can not control. Relax, sleep as much as you can cause when baby comes you will need all the energy you can muster.

alphalyrae · April 2014

stripes82 said:

I'm sorry if some of you feel that having a healthy baby is not the most important thing. And some of you are right you should definitely spend these last weeks angry and having other women support you in that anger.

Sleeping, relaxing are two things you will not be able to do again for a long time after you have baby. So if you would prefer to upset over something you can not change then go ahead.

Thank you for all of your lovely insight. All 1 discussions, and 10 replies. GTFO if you can't be even remotely supportive. Telling the OP that she needs to essentially suck it up and get over it is not helpful. It makes you a condescending bitch.

Miggg · April 2014

stripes82 said:

I'm sorry if some of you feel that having a healthy baby is not the most important thing. And some of you are right you should definitely spend these last weeks angry and having other women support you in that anger.

Sleeping, relaxing are two things you will not be able to do again for a long time after you have baby. So if you would prefer to upset over something you can not change then go ahead.

Wow. I don't even know where to start with this ridiculously ignorant and condescending response. GTFO. @jam85 I'm so sorry you're going through this. You have been planning and preparing for a birth that now may not happen and you have every right to mourn that. It's incredibly frustrating to do everything that you've done to prepare and still be facing unwanted interventions. The fact that they may be necessary doesn't make them easy to accept.

honey740 · April 2014

stripes82 said:

I'm sorry if some of you feel that having a healthy baby is not the most important thing. And some of you are right you should definitely spend these last weeks angry and having other women support you in that anger.

Sleeping, relaxing are two things you will not be able to do again for a long time after you have baby. So if you would prefer to upset over something you can not change then go ahead.

I have a 3yo and I am speaking from experience I slept more when she was born than when I was pregnant. Anyway, who are you? Do you even have kids? I hate people like you who make those comments. I don't even think you're pregnant.

spacepotatoes · April 2014

@stripes82 What you are doing is essentially the equivalent of telling someone who is clinically depressed to "just get over it." It's most unhelpful and insensitive thing you can say to someone who is dealing with that or with any kind of situation that involves strong emotions, like this one. What you are saying is dismissive and insulting, and it doesn't work that way.

OP, I'm sorry. It is a lot to process, especially given that it impacts future options too. I hope you don't end up needing the c-section, but you are absolutely allowed to feel how you feel about it!

ElTrain5 · April 2014

@stripes82 just fyi, a doctor consciously decided to limit their own training does not make a C-section "medically necessary". It just makes it necessary to either find a more well trained doctor or accept that their lack of knowledge will limit your options.

TheBeeCharmer · April 2014

Hugs to you. Having a breech LO is not fun. There's absolutely nothing wrong with mourning the loss of the birth you'd envisioned. I'm a third time mom and it's still hard for me because this is our last and I made it through two others with a vaginal delivery. I wouldn't be comfortable with a vaginal breech because I have large babies (9 and 10 pounds) and this LO is often footling breech. BUT it is not something that should be immediately excluded.

JAM85 · April 2014

For those that have been supportive thank you. For others- the health of my baby is obviously my number one priority and to suggest that it's not is asinine and rude.

I am planning on discussing an ECV with my doctor tomorrow to prepare while I continue to do all my exercises, see the chiro, and there is a community acupuncture place here I am making an appt with. I also watched the natural c section video and found out my hospital still allows immediate skin to skin and breastfeeding after a c section too as long as everything is ok. So I feel better that even though I cannot control this I at least can feel prepared. Unfortunately because I am high risk (due to lupus and PIH that have been well controlled) 39 weeks has always been when they wanted to discuss inducing (but their date is 3 days past my ovulation so I actually get 3 extra days!!) and she has been so healthy in all my twice weekly scans so I am hoping if they push to schedule if she remains breech then I can get to 40 weeks and give her all the time I can!

ETA: my hospital flat out refuses to allow breech deliveries regardless of the doctor or midwife despite being baby friendly and progressive and I can't go to another due to my insurance. It really is unfortunate that something that used to be normal (vaginal breech birth) has been lost due to not teaching it. My how my girl is, frank breech, is actually
Considered the safest breech position to deliver in. But it is is what it is...short of showing up with her butt crowning there isn't anything I can do!

realmissjess · April 2014

I hope the baby turns for you, but I don't have any advice on how to make it happen. My midwife partnered with a chiropractor he was supposed to be able to turn babies and align pelvises, but I can't speak for how well it works.

My reason for posting is to mention a podcast I just listen to. Ina May Gaskin was on The Longest Shortest Time talking about when natural births don't work out and the mom gets some kind of intervention. It was really interesting.

I know a lot of women more in their childbirth experience when it doesn't work out the way they wanted it to. It must be really hard to have another four weeks ahead of you and have to adjust your expectations. Hopefully it's not too late for the baby to turn!

sschwege · April 2014

stripes82 said:

I'm sorry if some of you feel that having a healthy baby is not the most important thing. And some of you are right you should definitely spend these last weeks angry and having other women support you in that anger.

Sleeping, relaxing are two things you will not be able to do again for a long time after you have baby. So if you would prefer to upset over something you can not change then go ahead.

For Pete's sake, no one was saying that having a healthy is not the most important thing! Honestly if that was your take-away message from our replies then there are obviously some reading comprehension problems that make it impossible to even respond to your posts.

Chichigo · April 2014

@jam85 Hang in there! I spent my last three weeks with my doctors on the fence about induction. They were concerned that I wasn't
a good candidate and didn't want to cause a c-section. Baby came one day before we would have had to schedule induction.

I completely understand your fears and concerns. We had so many "if ___, then ___" plans involving my husband, mother, and in-laws.

Fingers crossed that your baby turns.

luvmybundle · April 2014

My dd was frank breech. I tried the Webster technique, ice and heat packs, and a few exercises to see if we could get her to turn. She never did. However, I was lucky enough to have an ob who is trained to deliver breech babies vaginally. She allowed me to go into labor naturally and as long as dd showed no distress she would continue with vaginal. The hospital made me deliver in the OR just in case things took a turn and I needed a c section. In the end, she came out foot first! I was happy to see my doc training another on how to vaginally deliver breech babies and I wish more docs were doing them.
Your baby still has time to turn on her own and hopefully it'll happen for you. Good luck!

MandMLeona · April 2014

I'm coming in late, sorry. I was in your shoes last pregnancy. At 37 weeks she was still breech, suddenly we went from planning a low risk home birth to a hospital emergency. I was being told that my only options were c-section or epi and external version in an operating room followed immediately by induction if the version was successful or c-section if the baby refused to turn. I felt soo out of control and so panicked. My first had come at 37 weeks, so I didn't expect I would make it to the 39 weeks that they wanted to wait to do the version...so I felt I was looking at an emergency c-section once I went into labor. Luckily, for me baby girl decided to turn on her one at 37.5 weeks and was born naturally at home at 38.5 weeks. Her umbilical cord was wrapped like a harness around both shoulders and across her back. I'm pretty sure if they'd have tried to force anything on her it would have caused some issues. So, no real advice, just thought I'd let you know I understand where you are coming from and the feelings you are having. Hopefully this has resolved itself already and you are back on track.

mlrafiki · May 2014

luvmybundle said:

My dd was frank breech. I tried the Webster technique, ice and heat packs, and a few exercises to see if we could get her to turn. She never did. However, I was lucky enough to have an ob who is trained to deliver breech babies vaginally. She allowed me to go into labor naturally and as long as dd showed no distress she would continue with vaginal. The hospital made me deliver in the OR just in case things took a turn and I needed a c section. In the end, she came out foot first! I was happy to see my doc training another on how to vaginally deliver breech babies and I wish more docs were doing them. Your baby still has time to turn on her own and hopefully it'll happen for you. Good luck!

Good of your doc to use the opportunity to train! Much as I loved my OB, I might try to choose one who has experience with breech deliveries next time, just in case.

knirish1 · May 2014

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I'm 34 weeks, and my son is transverse. Frustratingly, he was head down 2 weeks ago but has decided he much prefers this position. I, too, am in the boat of trying all the other options (acupuncture, Webster technique, moxibustion) to try to avoid a c-section. If he isn't turned by my next doctor's appointment (in a week and a half) then I know we'll discuss an ECV. I'm not certain that my doctor will let me go into labor naturally and then see what position he's in due to my history, but I'm definitely going to push for that. You aren't alone in this. Obviously, we all want what is best for our children, but we also have been preparing ourselves for how we want to finish this phase of the journey and the prospect of losing that is terribly disheartening and scary. Hang in there. There are lots of stories of late turners!

kdaugherty4 · May 2014

My massage therapist says she can turn breech babies around from massage, maybe you can find someone to do that for you? I have also heard that peppermint oil on the belly can help, maybe Google it for more info. Good luck!

Ardmhs83 · May 2014

Veganlady said:

stripes82 said:

I'm sorry if some of you feel that having a healthy baby is not the most important thing. And some of you are right you should definitely spend these last weeks angry and having other women support you in that anger.

Sleeping, relaxing are two things you will not be able to do again for a long time after you have baby. So if you would prefer to upset over something you can not change then go ahead.

Well aren't you full of stupid? But I can't change that, so I'm just going to let it go.

I know this has already been said, but saying, "at least you had a healthy baby" drives me crazy! No shit! I'm so very thankful and blessed to have a beautiful healthy son! That goes without saying! I wanted a natural birth bad, but my son was also breech and a vaginal breech was not an option, so I ended up with the c/s. I mourn the loss of the birth I wanted, and my son will be 4 in August. The crazy VBAC process that I'm going through now is nuts! OP, I know exactly how you feel! It isn't normal for a person to "just get over it," it's next to impossible. I went through PPD/PPA, and I wonder if my c/s had anything to do with that? Things will get easier to accept with time, but you may always feel a bit of a loss, and that is okay. Talking to other supportive moms is helpful. Try to stay away from the twats that say these things! Try the ECV, if you can. I didn't try that or get a second opinion b/c my OB just flat out said no.

Good luck with everything and I pray your LO turns for you!

Ardmhs83 · May 2014

This is a good article...

https://www.nurturingheartsbirthservices.com/blog/?p=1429

caligirldar · May 2014

here is a link on spinning babies on how to flip breech babies... Good luck! Positive vibes to you, and keep us updated.

https://spinningbabies.com/baby-positions/breech-bottoms-up/what-to-do-about-breech

I had a friend that had her baby breech at 37 weeks so she was scheduled for a c-section at 39 weeks. When she went for her c-section baby had turned head down... So stay positive it is definitely still possible.

DenaMaree · May 2014

There is still a chance that your baby will turn! I know my Sister's daughter was breach the entire pregnancy and she was fully prepared for having to have a c-section. She went into labor 70 hour before the scheduled c-section and low and behold Ms. Liliah was head down and ready to make her appearance with no time to consider a c-section. I'm keeping you in my thoughts and prayers!!

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