Disciplining DD

littlemurphy2912 · April 2014

My DD is 20 months old and we just recently have started having a hard time with disciplining her and getting her to understand what she can and can't do. My DH and I talk to her lots about why she can't do certain things as simply as we can so she understands, show her things she can be doing, and when we know she needs help doing something on her own we help her. We know she is starting to become very independent and wanting to do stuff by herself and we allow her to do it to a certain degree. When we try to help her with something, she doesn't want us to and gets upset and my DH and I both explain to her that we know she is a big girl and wants to do things on her own but she still needs help from mommy and daddy and she's doing a good job with whatever she is wanting to do on her own at the time. In the past couple days I will be doing a fun activity of some sort with DD and when it's time to be done with it she doesn't like me pulling her away from it and will get mad and other than her saying no and fighting me on it....she can't really express her anger as much as what adults can and she has grabbed my arm and bit it pretty good to where teeth marks are on my arm for 12 hours. On Saturday evening when she did it she actually broke skin on my wrist. Has anyone else dealt with this before? We know she is still a little kid and is still learning how to express herself and learn right from wrong but there are only 4 things my DH and I agree on that she needs to be disciplined on to know she can't do them. Any help would be appreciated.

MrsStanger · April 2014

There are so many different parenting techniques out there. You have your "teach DD to do unto others" that requires you to bite back. So many people disagree with this and i must say in my mind it seems like it would work only to an extent, but im unsure if i could really do it. Another option, of course, is just to redirect. When our DD throws a tantrum (13MO old) we simply walk away. We dont leave the room. We want her to see us and understand that we hear her and know what she is doing but until she stops our attention wont be given to her. We are rough and tumble with her (allow her to pick herself up if she falls and then soothe) You mentioned pulling DD away from an activity. if she is engrossed and it is still holding her interest then start picking the activity up and explaining your next fun activity! Our "fun" transition is the laundry. we can be starting a load of folding it, but as soon as she knows that is where we are going she will follow. So we usually turn her attention there and ill hurry back to pick up that last fun activity before she becomes re-engrossed(sp). Of course this is teaching her that she doesnt have to pick up but we will cross that bridge in a few months. The last parenting book i read suggested that you make a fun song/game for picking things up. I dont know about other moms but i get exhausted quick with all the smiley smiley. SO our transition song is row row row your boat. When she hears the song she knows to pay attention because things are about to get switched up on her. I know this is a lot to take in and i hope at least some of it was/is helpful! Good luck

ashiscute · April 2014

My first recommendation is paragraphs. It makes your post infinitely easier to read.

It sounds like maybe you are talking to your LO too much and giving her too much explanation. At that age she most likely isn't listening. We stick with more of a "we don't do this" period. When she is a bit older you can give better reasoning. Also, if she doesn't want your help don't give it right away. Give her a good chance to get angry and need your help. It will get better but kids go through lots of this stage.

As for the biting I do timeouts. We started timeout around 18 mos or so for serious offenses (hitting, pushing, biting). We have a timeout spot and my 19 mo sits there for 45 seconds and then we hug it out. I don't do apologies or explanations just "we do not bite, you are going to timeout." Again, when they're older we talk about things more but at that age they don't need all of that.

littlemurphy2912 · April 2014

Both you ladies are giving some helpful ideas and thanks for that! We have tried redirecting her attention to something that she can do and something more positive but she usually wants to go back to what she was doing before. I know I will get yelled at for this or judged but whenever she bit me I smacked her on her upper thigh and said you don't bite mommy that's not nice and she immediately said ouch and I said you gave mommy ouch and she grabbed my hand she bit and kissed it and said all better and I said thank you then said we don't bite we give kisses and hugs...then told her it's not nice to bite. I then kissed where I gave her the ouch and she says all better and is back to her usual self. Just curious if there is something else I should be doing even though doing that whenever she does bite me seems to be working; however, I don't like doing it and feel awful afterwards. She's only bit me twice so far so maybe it's working? I know smacking her leg can cause her to think she can smack or hitting other people is okay when in-fact it's not okay to do and we don't want her to know that. We just want to get her attention and help her understand that hurting someone when you're not getting your way isn't the answer and you need to listen and obey. We have been sitting her down in a designated area and letting her sit there when she's done 3 of 4 other things that my DH and I won't tolerate her doing but that doesn't work well anymore because she thinks its a game and laughs and smiles and runs away.

littlemurphy2912 · April 2014

Thank you for the suggestions. I don't switch activities quickly on her. For example the only two activities we did last weekend that she bit me because she was upset and not wanting to just go with the flow were blowing bubbles outside while my DH was cooking dinner on the grill and I told her we have to go in soon to eat dinner and she kept saying NO then I reminded her when he was done that its time to eat we need to go inside give mommy the bubbles and she said NO again and then I had her help me put them away and she didn't like that and threw a fit and so I brought her inside and as I did it she bit me. The other situation was we were at the mall buying her some new shoes and we let her walk around in the store and look at shoes but then when it was time to go to another store she got mad and didn't want to leave and bit me. I have tried just about everything you have suggested and haven't smacked her till she bit me. Otherwise I don't smack her at all and don't like to. I know spanking was a thing when I was growing up but I didn't ever get spanked, I got yelled at by my parents and when that happened my self esteem got lowered and I had problems socially and intellectually in school and out. Maybe spanking would have been the better route so I didn't have those problems growing up? I don't know. Just something I think about when trying to raise and teach my DD the best way that I can.

littlemurphy2912 · April 2014

@nicb13 I don't agree with it either and I am always tell my DH that I don't like doing it because hitting isn't a solution to anything and he agrees but him and I aren't sure what else to do with punishing her. I have sat with her in her "time-out" area and held her there with her back to my stomach and didn't let her get up and didn't say anything to her but she kept fighting me and just kept crying and didn't stop crying till I thought it had been long enough sitting there and then got up and kept going about our day. I have a really hard time disciplining her and I am not trying to make her out to look like this awful disobedient kid because she's not. She really is a good kid just being a stinker here and there and we try to just understand what she is going through and respond to it but we are worried we aren't disciplining her right. Thanks for all the suggestions though. Will definitely keep them in mind.

littlemurphy2912 · April 2014

@lalamam I know in my past posts they have been very, very long and I try to not make them too overwhelming to read or avoid people losing interest in reading it so I know I didn't mention anything about transition with the activities. I know no one will believe me when I say this but I REALLY don't like smacking her and am always trying to give her choices on things and praising her as much as I can. It is hard to watch her have tantrums and not listen to us till she is out of her tantrum state. It's hard figuring out a good working solution to this because both my mother and mother in law have told my DH and I that him and I both were such good kids, didn't ever get in trouble, always stayed by our mothers sides, didn't ever want to do much with friends, and were just completely mommy's kids. I know my DD is a big momma's girl but both our moms tell us that we didn't ever do what our DD does (not that it's a bad thing or that she's a horrible kid because that's not the case) Just hard to understand how to handle and deal with it when DH and I were both "angels" in our mothers' minds.

littlemurphy2912 · April 2014

@nicb you are absolutely right that they are toddlers and will have tantrums and fits and whatever else. How you are describing how you discipline your DS is exactly what my DH and I are looking for and I guess we are having a hard time trying to get to that point. How do you incorporate the whole "I'm going to count to 3" method. I've tried that on her a couple times in a simple way for her to understand and she doesn't get it. I am also not sure how to do the whole "sit here in time-out" and knowing the appropriate amount of time for her to be in time out and if anything should be said to her when she gets out of time out. I have a bad tendency to try and explain things for her short and simply but I think that's hard for her to pick up on. Like in my older post on thinking I'm "screwing her up" this is a good part of it. I think I am not doing well and trying every source I can to get help and figure out how to get to the point where she understands like how your DS does.

honeydew01 · April 2014

Nicb13 said:

littlemurphy2912 said:

@lalamam I know in my past posts they have been very, very long and I try to not make them too overwhelming to read or avoid people losing interest in reading it so I know I didn't mention anything about transition with the activities. I know no one will believe me when I say this but I REALLY don't like smacking her and am always trying to give her choices on things and praising her as much as I can. It is hard to watch her have tantrums and not listen to us till she is out of her tantrum state. It's hard figuring out a good working solution to this because both my mother and mother in law have told my DH and I that him and I both were such good kids, didn't ever get in trouble, always stayed by our mothers sides, didn't ever want to do much with friends, and were just completely mommy's kids. I know my DD is a big momma's girl but both our moms tell us that we didn't ever do what our DD does (not that it's a bad thing or that she's a horrible kid because that's not the case) Just hard to understand how to handle and deal with it when DH and I were both "angels" in our mothers' minds.

This is blowing my mind. ALL kids act this way. I don't believe the bolded part for one second.
OP, I remember you, I also remember that you worry A LOT (that's ok!), but you HAVE to know that this is totally normal behavior. Hell, I had to leave a restaurant twice last weekend, with DS under my arm, screaming hysterically because he wanted to run around I wouldn't let him. Toddlers can be AWFUL.
Your parents must not remember the bad stuff and it's fogging your judgment because what they are saying is making you question your kid and your parenting. Don't listen to them.

OP, my dad does exactly what your moms do too. And PP are right, they just forget how toddlers are supposed to be..DD is 13 months old and is onto touching and exploring everything and my dad is like "she needs to learn to not touch stuff she is not supposed to touch, my kids always listened" and I always have to remind him that she is 13 months old. If something is in her reach she is going to grab it and explore it, it's her job. If she's putting her finger in an outlet socket I'll stop her but I can't blame her or stop her from touching the remote that is a foot away from her! Anyway that's just one example, but he's always telling me how we listened and did x or y..and I have to remind him that she is a baby. she is going to throw tantrums, not listen, push limits...sometimes it shocks me that he has unrealistic expectations of a toddler and wonder how in the world did they raise us..but maybe they decided to block those memories and remember the good ones?

sschwege · April 2014

littlemurphy2912 said:

@nicb you are absolutely right that they are toddlers and will have tantrums and fits and whatever else. How you are describing how you discipline your DS is exactly what my DH and I are looking for and I guess we are having a hard time trying to get to that point. How do you incorporate the whole "I'm going to count to 3" method. I've tried that on her a couple times in a simple way for her to understand and she doesn't get it. I am also not sure how to do the whole "sit here in time-out" and knowing the appropriate amount of time for her to be in time out and if anything should be said to her when she gets out of time out. I have a bad tendency to try and explain things for her short and simply but I think that's hard for her to pick up on. Like in my older post on thinking I'm "screwing her up" this is a good part of it. I think I am not doing well and trying every source I can to get help and figure out how to get to the point where she understands like how your DS does.

Just jumping in here. The counting, "1, 2, 3" thing is I think based off a parenting book, "One, Two, Three Magic" I haven't actually read it myself, so someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

As for time-outs I really only use them for things like hitting, pushing, in your case biting. For young children I would suggest just putting her behind a baby gate or contained in a safe place (not a crib since you don't want her to associate sleep with a punishment) and just walking away for 1-2 minutes. Then come back say something like, "We don't bite, that hurts mama" and move on. It's harder when you are out, perhaps strapping her in the stroller?

I believe you when you say you feel bad about physically disciplining her, but I think you must know that hitting to teach a child not to hit doesn't make sense. Now that DD's older I say things like, "It's not OK to hit people, does mama hit you?" and the answer of course is 'no'. That's a good feeling to be able to lead by example. Your LO is so young, she is not going to remember you hitting her leg, but if you keep it up she will remember and learn it's OK.

sschwege · April 2014

Nicb13 said:

sschwege said:

Just jumping in here. The counting, "1, 2, 3" thing is I think based off a parenting book, "One, Two, Three Magic" I haven't actually read it myself, so someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

As for time-outs I really only use them for things like hitting, pushing, in your case biting. For young children I would suggest just putting her behind a baby gate or contained in a safe place (not a crib since you don't want her to associate sleep with a punishment) and just walking away for 1-2 minutes. Then come back say something like, "We don't bite, that hurts mama" and move on. It's harder when you are out, perhaps strapping her in the stroller?

I believe you when you say you feel bad about physically disciplining her, but I think you must know that hitting to teach a child not to hit doesn't make sense. Now that DD's older I say things like, "It's not OK to hit people, does mama hit you?" and the answer of course is 'no'. That's a good feeling to be able to lead by example. Your LO is so young, she is not going to remember you hitting her leg, but if you keep it up she will remember and learn it's OK.

The bolded to me seems like something you do to a very young kid, like 14-16 months old. This LO is 20 months old so she is totally old enough (IMO) to get time out and understand why she is there (biting). People don't give toddlers nearly enough credit for how smart they are. Not saying YOU exactly, just people in general.

Difference of opinion I guess, but that's a good point, what works for one child might not work for another. It's all about knowing your child.

ashiscute · April 2014

Nicb13 said:

OP you are not screwing her up. IMO, everything with kids is basically trial and error, even if you read all the parenting books out there for advice. You have to try different things to see what works for your LO. Some people don't agree with time-out's but they work for us. Counting to 3 doesn't work for everyone, but DS responds well to it. It took us a while to get there.
In the beginning, DS got time out for hitting only. We would put him in, and walk a little ways away. I would never leave the room or his line of sight. If he tried to get up, we put him right back, but didn't say a word. The key is not getting worked up or raising your voice because even doing that is giving them attention, even if it's negative. They will continue the bad behavior if they are getting attention.
The sitter started the counting to 3 without me even knowing it. She has 2 other kids to get off to school, etc so she needed DS to do certain things and if he didn't listen, she would tell him that she's counting to 3 or he gets time out. She did all the work really and we continued what she was doing at home. It's all about follow through. Ask your LO to do something (within reason for a toddler) and if they don't listen, follow through with your "threat" (could be time out).
You really have to pick your battles though, especially at this age. I try to avoid always saying "no" or constantly harping on DS and sometimes, tantrums just happen, no matter how hard I try to prevent them. Toddlers freak out. A LOT. I just had lunch with my friend who has a 3 year old and she was almost in tears over her kid, wondering where her nice little boy went because the tantrums are so out of control. You have to plan on really bad tantrums, but hope for the best. It's inevitable.
CONSISTENCY is key. If you do the same things over and over and over again, your LO will catch on.

I agree with this 100%. At 20 mos your child is probably old enough to understand and stay in a timeout. I never held either of mine in place. We picked a timeout spot and stuck with it. The first few times DS especially got up but we were consistent and he got it pretty quickly. He even stays if we do timeout somewhere else like grandmas or something and he is 19 mos. We started timeout a bit before 18 mos when another hitting stage rolled through. Same with DD.

The book 123 Magic is pretty good even if it's geared more towards older kids. But the best part of the book is that it says you are probably talking too much in regards to discipline and your kids aren't listening. Keep it short and sweet.

littlemurphy2912 · April 2014

Thank you everyone for your helpful words of wisdom! I am definitely going to look into other methods as opposed to swatting my DD to help her understand what is and isn't acceptable. I do have problems with feeling insecure about many things when it comes to my DD. I know I shouldn't and I need to be more confident in what I am doing but I doubt myself a lot of the time and second guess what I am doing wondering if it's the best thing for her and I need to stop thinking that way. I know all parents and kids are different from each other but I see time and time again parents with kids that are my DD's age or older and they hardly have to ever raise their voice to their child, tell them no, give them warnings, etc. and I sit there and think how did their child develop to be SO well behaved and not seem to have any problems with listening and knowing right from wrong. I know my DD is still learning and experimenting with many things as she keeps growing and I don't know all of what goes on behind closed doors with the SO well behaved kids and their parents but I just don't want my child to be grow up being disrespectful and think she will get her way with anything anytime she wants it. I know it won't be an easy process but that is what I am aiming for. So many people tell me that my DH and I are doing a good job with her and it makes us feel good but at home she's completely different most of the time and we think...what is up with this. But we just think to ourselves that she is comfortable in her house and feels she can act out here and there if she wants to, to see how we will react. We just have to work on how we respond to her and just be patient and always positive.

littlemurphy2912 · April 2014

Same here! DD does very well in public, at daycare, at other people's houses, and if we are with her and for whatever reason we say no to her on something she stops and will back up so you're right @LalaMama81‌ she is getting it as the days go on from what we are teaching her at home. She is a really good kid and everyone at her daycare says she's such a sweetie and it makes me feel good and I'm glad she acts out at home with DH and I rather than at daycare and get in trouble from it! DH and I just really need to pick our battles and tell ourselves we have to be positive and calm with her no matter what. We can't get upset with her because we are upset with something. Thanks so much @Nicb13 for usually being a good sport and responding to my posts. You make me feel better and make me want to be more confident in my decisions and choices I make with DD. Also to hear from others that I am not the only one that doesn't have all of this figured out and isn't as confident as I'd like to be helps too!

emberlee3 · April 2014

I think you've gotten a lot of really good advice so far. I second everything @ClaryPax said. I don't do time-outs. I *try* to speak to my children respectfully, but of course I lose it sometimes. I like the Aha! Parenting blog https://www.ahaparenting.com/ and the book, "How to talk so kids will listen." "The Happiest Toddler on the Block" is good, too, and it's a quick read.

Just keep in mind that no matter what approach you take to discipline, it takes a ton of repetition.
All children act out. Some do it more at home, some more in public. All children are learning, and all (good) parents are learning, too.

sschwege · April 2014

littlemurphy2912 said:

Thank you everyone for your helpful words of wisdom! I am definitely going to look into other methods as opposed to swatting my DD to help her understand what is and isn't acceptable. I do have problems with feeling insecure about many things when it comes to my DD. I know I shouldn't and I need to be more confident in what I am doing but I doubt myself a lot of the time and second guess what I am doing wondering if it's the best thing for her and I need to stop thinking that way. I know all parents and kids are different from each other but I see time and time again parents with kids that are my DD's age or older and they hardly have to ever raise their voice to their child, tell them no, give them warnings, etc. and I sit there and think how did their child develop to be SO well behaved and not seem to have any problems with listening and knowing right from wrong. I know my DD is still learning and experimenting with many things as she keeps growing and I don't know all of what goes on behind closed doors with the SO well behaved kids and their parents but I just don't want my child to be grow up being disrespectful and think she will get her way with anything anytime she wants it. I know it won't be an easy process but that is what I am aiming for. So many people tell me that my DH and I are doing a good job with her and it makes us feel good but at home she's completely different most of the time and we think...what is up with this. But we just think to ourselves that she is comfortable in her house and feels she can act out here and there if she wants to, to see how we will react. We just have to work on how we respond to her and just be patient and always positive.

If parenting has taught me one thing it's to not compare your child to other children. Easier said than done I know, but just keep reminding yourself.

So much of the behaviors children exhibit both positive and negative are specific to their personality. Being a nanny for newborn fraternal twins and now having two children of my own has been a huge eye-opener for me.

Good example: DD was never a grabber when it came to toys, she would get so interested in whatever she was doing she paid little attention to whatever anyone else was playing with. I probably had to return a toy to another child 5 times or less her entire baby/toddlerhood, no joke! DS came along and he is the 'grass is always greener' kid, whatever someone else has that's what he wants. So now I'm the parents chasing him around returning toys to other kids. Same parents, relatively same environment, just different kids.

So seriously don't compare what your daughter is doing to what the other kids are doing, it's not fair for two reasons. First you are not around the other children all the time, you don't see what goes on when you are not there. Second, they are just different kids, all children have areas in their lives that make them more challenging or less.

sunshinedaisies · April 2014

I just wanted to say, if you do something parenting related and you dont feel good about it, then don't do it anymore. There isn't only one way to do this and sure, consult with others, but most of all you just have to listen to your gut.

melissa721 · April 2014

littlemurphy2912 said:

@nicb you are absolutely right that they are toddlers and will have tantrums and fits and whatever else. How you are describing how you discipline your DS is exactly what my DH and I are looking for and I guess we are having a hard time trying to get to that point. How do you incorporate the whole "I'm going to count to 3" method. I've tried that on her a couple times in a simple way for her to understand and she doesn't get it. I am also not sure how to do the whole "sit here in time-out" and knowing the appropriate amount of time for her to be in time out and if anything should be said to her when she gets out of time out. I have a bad tendency to try and explain things for her short and simply but I think that's hard for her to pick up on. Like in my older post on thinking I'm "screwing her up" this is a good part of it. I think I am not doing well and trying every source I can to get help and figure out how to get to the point where she understands like how your DS does.

I do the count to three thing and it doesn't work every time--especially not when she's tired, which is when most tantrums occur. However, it NEVER works when my husband does it. Who knows what goes on in my LO's mind and why she listens to my count and not his but my observation is this:

1. I use a different voice when I count. A bit louder, to get her attention, and firmer. There is no sweetness or playfulness in my voice. It's all business. (Mh never changes his tone of voice. In fact, when he counts, he sounds the same as when he is practicing counting with her. So sometimes she counts along with him!!)

2. I count slowly. I want to give her time, a couple seconds in between to make her choice. Listen to me...or timeout... Usually between 1 and 2 she does what I want her to do. (MH counts too fast. He doesn't give her time to comprehend what's about to happen--timeout if she doesn't do what we are asking.)

3. Before I count I tell her exactly what I want from her. "I'm going to count to 3 and you need to come change your diaper/hold my hand/come get dressed/sit down on that couch/etc" (MH usually just says I'm gonna count to three. But that doesn't tell her what she needs to know.)

Incorporating it is easy. Just start doing it. Once she hears it a few times she will get it!

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