STTN tips from my pedi

ShePersisted · April 2014

We just had our two month appt and wanted to share something interesting from my pedi on helping LO sleep through the night.

He said once babies are 12 lbs they don't nutritionally need the feeding to be every 3-4 hours at night so after the big last feeding at night I should gradually start to reduce the amount I feed him the rest of the night. So if I give in 4oz I should bring it down to 3.5 then to 3 then to 2 and so on. He said basically this will signal the baby that I don't really need food and they start to soothe them selves back to sleep and drop the feeding as their body adjusts to the small feedings.

I thought that was very interesting. Anyone's pedi share similar tips on STTN?

Missy0483 · April 2014

My pedi mentioned the 12lb thing too. I guess it could be true for some. But what if your baby was 10 or 11 pounds at birth, they gain weight fast and by a month old they're expected to sttn already? Some babies never sttn and are up even if they aren't hungry.

Our pedi didn't give us any tips. I'm just going with the flow.

queeniecrayon · April 2014

I'm with @Missy0483‌...they'll drop their feedings on their own when they're ready....

Unknown · April 2014

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MissDemeanor · April 2014

When people say STTN, how many hours are they expecting/hoping for? If my LO sleeps 5, I'm ready to throw a party. But I have no idea what's normal, since I've sworn off books. I have noticed that he wakes up between 3-4, regardless of what time I put him to bed.

sprashley · April 2014

What's your pedi's definition of STTN?

ziggy903 · April 2014

FFS, what is people's obsession with getting babies to STTN? I don't STTN. At least once a night I will have to get up to pee and get some water. Why should I expect my infant to?

dizzycooks · April 2014

Sttn is typically 6 hours I think so baby may still wake around 2 or 3 depending on when you're putting him down. My dd1 woke up to eat very night at 230 am practically like clock work, until 13 months. I never felt the need to stop her, but to each their own.

Missy0483 · April 2014

Our pedi said by 12 pounds she should do 6-8 hours at night before waking up.

Unknown · April 2014

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Missy0483 · April 2014

100% agree with @ziggy618‌
I'm just happy my baby wakes up, honestly.

ShePersisted · April 2014

I think my pedi was trying to get us to the 4-5 hour mark with this advice. My LO is 8 weeks but the longest he will go is 3 ish hours. An odd night will be 4 hrs and then wakes up every 2- 2.5 hours rest of the night and takes big feedings each time which means an hour of feeding as I need to pace his feeding.

I don't know if I will give him less food just to get him to sleep yet but he barely sleeps during the day and if I count he does not seem to be getting his 10-12 hours min sleep which is concerning.

MoxyByProxy · April 2014

Missy0483 said:
Our pedi said by 12 pounds she should do 6-8 hours at night before waking up.

Whaat?! 6-8 hours... at a time?

boogerbearoriginal · April 2014

MoxyByProxy said:

Our pedi said by 12 pounds she should do 6-8 hours at night before waking up.
Whaat?! 6-8 hours... at a time?

I feel like these Pedis must be like 50+yrs old, or my MIL.

While these guidelines *may* work for some babies, I'm willing to bet good money it's based on FFing as norm if anything. IMO these things are parenting advice, not medical fact and shouldn't be stated as hard/fast rules.

LO1 didn't stop night nursing until 18m, when I pushed him to wean. Granted, he did not likely NEED to eat, but I'm betting he was thirsty (as he started asking for water after weaning). And wanted comfort. There is no way in hell you can convince me there is medical evidence that a baby doesn't need to eat overnight based on weight alone. LO2 is 12lbs and only 7wks old. I cannot imagine NOT nursing her for 8hrs if she was waking to nurse. Besides the fact that it's 100% normal for newborns to need night feeds, all babies mature/develop at their own rate so to say x weight is hard cut off is ridiculous.

coralreefmom · April 2014

My pedi said this as well and pushed me to switch from bf to ff to help W sleep longer (I'm happy with what we get from him). I'm scheduling all future appointments with the nurse practitioners because they were more helpful, especially with bf-ing

ziggy903 · April 2014

cyclonewxchick said:
My pedi said this as well and pushed me to switch from bf to ff to help W sleep longer (I'm happy with what we get from him). I'm scheduling all future appointments with the nurse practitioners because they were more helpful, especially with bf-ing

This is a huge red flag to me. If baby is gaining weight well and you're both happy, there's only one reason to push formula- money.

coralreefmom · April 2014

@ziggy903‌ it raised my red flag as well. I had asked him if the x amount we supplement with bfing was decent (W dropped from the 20th percentile to.the 7th), and he said just go to ffing which will help him sttn. The nurse practitioners have never pushed me on ffing.

MissDemeanor · April 2014

ziggy903 said:

FFS, what is people's obsession with getting babies to STTN? I don't STTN. At least once a night I will have to get up to pee and get some water. Why should I expect my infant to?

I remember a time in the distant past that I didn't need to get up in the middle of the night to pee. It was GLORIOUS.

JordyInIndy · April 2014

ziggy903 said:
FFS, what is people's obsession with getting babies to STTN? I don't STTN. At least once a night I will have to get up to pee and get some water. Why should I expect my infant to?

From what it sounds like she is just relating info from her pedi to the board. I don't think she's "obsessed" with her LO STTN but thought others here might enjoy the advice her doctor gave. I don't think it was anything to jump down her throat for. If everyone here is comfortable doing what they're doing, great, keep it up.

ETA: she was asking if anyone else had a pedi give similar advice. Not telling everyone she had the magical STTN answer.

MissDemeanor · April 2014

Maybe I'm crazy here, and talking out of my ass.... But I wonder if LOs who get more excercise/activity during the day sleep better at night? More time on the activity mat than swing, wrap vs stroller, or whatever. Or us it too early and doesn't make a difference?

Maybe we should all strap on the moby and run a 5K?

MissDemeanor · April 2014

golfergirl08 said:

These STTN posts make me nervous, although PPs made me feel better. DD has slept 4 hours at a time max, and that was maybe a couple times. Last night she was feeding every 2 hours. She is sleepy when she feeds and goes right back to sleep, but these posts make me feel like there is something wrong. Mentally I know there isn't, but jeez.

As usual I think we all need to remember every baby is different, and that is ok! If we're not careful we could cross over into mommy wars territory (NOT saying that about anyone in this post) by comparing babies, etc. I worry about this when they start hitting more milestones especially. Some of our kids will walk at 8 months. Some will walk at 14. And that's OK!

OK that little hijack aside...

In the past week or two I've started pausing a few moments in the MOTN when LO starts squawking. I used to automatically just scoop him up and feed him. Now I'm finding that he'll make a few noises and just go back to sleep.

MamaHollywood27 · April 2014

@MissDemeanor‌ the moby wouldn't be my first choice for a 5k. It will stretch w time and sweat. I'd go with something a little more sturdy

ha ha ha

sdlaura · April 2014

My 12-pounder doesn't sleep longer than 4 hours at a time, while DD was sleeping 8 hours straight at 4weeks/10 pounds. I don't think sleeping guidelines can be based on weight alone.

ShePersisted · April 2014

I think I am agreeing with all of you. Honestly I don't care if my baby STTN but my LO really does not nap well even during the day. Sleep is important for his development hence I do want to ensure he gets what's needed for his age even on the lower range.

I just was curious on the theory my pedi suggested on reducing feed during the night and if others had tried it. Of course if he wakes up and is hungry even after the reduced feed I am giving him what he needs but if this strategy helps him (and me) sleep well at night I am going to give it a try.

Btwilhelm · April 2014

My LO is close to 15 lbs at almost nine weeks and wakes up atleast twice during the night to eat. There's some nights if she goes to bed around midnight or a little later she might not wake up till 5 or 6 but that's only happened two or three times.

I don't really get how weight factors into this?

JackieP1023 · April 2014

Yeah, i don't know how weight factors into this. LO is 8 weeks, EBF, and has been sleeping long stretches for awhile now (6-8+ hours). She has seemed healthy, growing well. We had our 2 month appt today, and she weighs 9lb13oz. (25th percentile). Doctor didn't seem worried, but very surprised when we told her LO sleeps so long. I am guessing if she drops much in percentile by next appt (in June), she may push for FF or at least supplementing

MissDemeanor · April 2014

TyrannosaurusLex said:

@hg45 sorry if you've mentioned it, have you tried wearing LO? Mine won't truly nap during the day otherwise, and she sleeps so much better in her bassinet at night on days I've worn her for a long time. The difference is staggering - but every LO is different!

Agreed. Makes a huge difference here too.

ShePersisted · April 2014

@TyrannosaurusLex‌ yes I wear him on and off through the day and we go for walks. He will sleep sometimes so it helps. In all honesty I don't do it often enough and I should probably, perhaps that might help him sleep more. I will try increasing how often I wear him and see if it works. Thanks!

ShePersisted · April 2014

To clarify, my understanding and not trying to defend the pedi but I don't think he is saying after 12 lbs babies should or must sleep long. I think he was saying that once the baby reaches 12 lbs their bodies are metabolically and nutritionally able to manage so if they did not eat in 3-4 hours it won't hurt them as long as they make up for it during the day. His advise was feed him more during the day and less at night so that his body gets accustomed to taking the needed nutrition in day time so that he is naturally inclined to sleep more at night.

He gave me an example that if I got up to eat a mid night snack everyday at 2 am in due course I will automatically feel hungry at 2 am everyday as my body now knows I get the snack. It's the same with babies that they are accustomed to that MOTN snack. So basically if baby gets considerable nutrition during night feeding he will wake up regardless of weight to wake up. If I reduce that, then his body adjusts over time. Some babies eventually do it on their own some don't. It's just a way of trying to help them get there if indeed they are not sleeping well.

Again I am not saying this is the way to go but it's an interesting approach. It was a suggested measure and wanted to share with others here in case anyone had tried successfully.

MoxyByProxy · April 2014

TyrannosaurusLex said:
@hg45 sorry if you've mentioned it, have you tried wearing LO? Mine won't truly nap during the day otherwise, and she sleeps so much better in her bassinet at night on days I've worn her for a long time. The difference is staggering - but every LO is different!

@TyrannosaurusLex‌ I'm curious to know your thoughts on why this makes a difference? Is it bc LO rests deeper while being worn?

In our house, a crappy restless or no nap day plays hell at night time!

littlepig2 · April 2014

@MoxyByProxy‌ when DD is really fighting sleep, I baby wear like @TyrannosaurusLex‌ said and she passes out for a long time. she's snuggled up against me and warm, two of her favorite things, plus I'm moving so she gets that little but of bounce and she's off her back. it's a win all the way around.

RedSoxGirl10 · April 2014

I must be weird but this advice makes sense to me. As an adult I find myself more hungry in the middle of the night now bc I've been having a snack in the night since LO was born- so basically what the PP said about the 2am snack

The pedi isn't suggesting suddenly not feeding at night, just slowly making it less so eventually LO will not need to eat at all. I would assume if you give less and the baby is crying/hungry you would just give more. I don't have an obsession with sttn but I know both LO and I both need our sleep

particularly bc I'm going back to work soon and have a responsibility to keep 22 kindergartners safe and learning.
I breastfeed so it's hard to measure exact amount given obviously but a couple of times I've given more of a quick feed if LO wakes up at 6am bc I want him to eat again around 7 or 8. When he was younger (weighed less?) this didn't work but now he will take the quick feed and go back to sleep for an hour or two. Like everything though, I'm sure this depends on the baby

frohotch · April 2014

I think hg45 has it right here. Generally at about 12 lbs babies no longer need to eat in the middle of the night. The reason the pediatrician tells you to wake up newborns is because they don't have (and cannot yet effectively use) their energy stores, so their glucose will drop if they're not fed. By around 12 lbs (although some babies will hit that mark earlier) babies can use their energy stores to maintain stable levels throughout a full night's sleep.

I don't think 12 lbs is or should be a hard line, but I also think that the number of 6 month olds who still eat in the middle of the night is unnecessary. It's helpful to know when a baby is safe to sleep through the night, and that there is no medical reason to continue it past a certain point - although you're certainly welcome to make your own decisions on the topic

notreal2 · April 2014

I am glad people got medical advice that eases their minds. I know that STTN automatically raises my hackles since I am surrounded by asshats who see it as the gold standard of good parenting.

versed · April 2014

@redsoxgirl10 - you could also be hungry in the MOTN now because your body needs that snack. Just like we're thirstier now, too. Our body needs those extra calories and drinks since we're breastfeeding. There are too many factors to consider that you can't just say you're hungry because you're eating.

I am a firm believer that my baby asks to be fed when he needs to be fed, just like my body does. He's 14lbs, and I'm going back to work, but I'll keep doing MOTN feedings when he asks. My toddler just stopped night feedings at 14m. I know at that age, it may have been hunger or comfort, but either way, I didn't deny him.

funchicken · April 2014

Late to the party here... I don't talk about night wakings with my pedi. I figure as long as I'm okay with the way things are, I don't need to discuss it. Both of my older girls are good sleepers now. DD1 bed-shared a lot. DD2 found a lovey and was able to self-soothe around 10 months. Even babies/kids who are good sleepers wake up for any number of reasons besides needing to eat: teething, milestones, etc.

It's fine for a pedi to offer advice like that, but don't feel like you have to follow it or you're doing something wrong because your 12 pound baby isn't STTN. Just my 2 cents

sprashley · April 2014

MamaHollywood27 said:

@MissDemeanor‌ the moby wouldn't be my first choice for a 5k. It will stretch w time and sweat. I'd go with something a little more sturdy ha ha ha

lol I was thinking the same thing.

Maybe a baby bjorn would be better? joking...

RedSoxGirl10 · April 2014

@NextVerseUnknown

You are right, I'm sure I am more hungry because of breastfeeding at the moment. But I just find in general the more I eat, the more I want to eat. I tend to eat more on the weekends and then on Monday, I'm way more hungry... just something I've noticed about myself. Anyway, I definitely don't think a 12 lb baby should be sleeping through the night, just don't think it's unreasonable to go in that direction. Just my opinion though

@Moxybyproxy

My LO has also been fighting naps lately. When he doesn't want to nap but gets cranky, I just put him right in the Ergo and we go for a walk. It puts him to sleep every time and he sleeps very soundly. I definitely recommend!

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