Behavior AFTER being "social" ?

Re: Behavior AFTER being "social" ?

• kcisthebombdotcom member

  March 2014

  Yes, this is completely typical for kids on the spectrum. They use all their bandwidth to hold it together at school that they can't hold it together anymore and unfortunately let loose on those who love them most. Most school days dd has a really long day--she has 2.5 hours in her autism classroom, lunch, then playtime with nt peers for 90 minutes. She naps, and when she wakes up she has a choice of snack. If it's above 40 degrees we go outside and play with the water table/sand for a good hour. I try not to engage her unless she asks me to join her in play just to give her some time to decompress. If it's too cold she watches tv shows for an hour inside (oddly enough she's one of those kids that tv is organizing for unless we overdo it). After she gets that hour alone she's usually ok for the rest of the day.

  

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• mightmom13 member

  March 2014

  That is re-assuring to hear - not optimal obviously but good to know that the behavior is typical for DD, even if driven by the atypical, lol. 

  
  

  I am a little concerned about her move from very little structure besides eating/traveling to the gym/naps to a little bit more structure and moving into curriculum in the late summer/fall. DD needs the change to be drawn in for the social aspect which excites me, but I am a little nervous about how it will affect her as an atypical kiddo as well. 

  
  

  I think seeing the changes of intesity at home and not just in other settings has been a bit of an eye opener. Thanks for the non-engaging unless engaged tips - I think I was doing the opposite a bit. 

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• kcisthebombdotcom member

  March 2014

  mightmom13 said:

  That is re-assuring to hear - not optimal obviously but good to know that the behavior is typical for DD, even if driven by the atypical, lol. 

  
  

  I am a little concerned about her move from very little structure besides eating/traveling to the gym/naps to a little bit more structure and moving into curriculum in the late summer/fall. DD needs the change to be drawn in for the social aspect which excites me, but I am a little nervous about how it will affect her as an atypical kiddo as well. 

  
  

  I think seeing the changes of intesity at home and not just in other settings has been a bit of an eye opener. Thanks for the non-engaging unless engaged tips - I think I was doing the opposite a bit. 

  
  We never were able to keep a really structured day with dd prior to preschool because we were just so busy with therapies that we were always flying by the seat of our pants. Dd has really adapted nicely to the structure of school. The first day was really rough but since then it's been good and we have seen nothing but positive changes. I hope you share the same experience.

  

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• kcisthebombdotcom member

  March 2014

  -auntie- said:

  It is pretty usual for kids to "hold it together" for a time and then lose it entirely in their safe place.

  
  

  The other piece is that the emotional immaturity associated with classic autism is about 1/2 their age, give -or-take. You don't mention her age, but if she's three-ish, the behavior you describe could be garden variety terrible twos (which start in typical kids around 18 months) showing up late.

  
  

  The other thought is about the suitability of this "social group". I know a lot of therapists see ASD parents as a worried cash cow and play on our sense of urgency, but I wonder how effective social skills group is at an age when typical kids are still engaging in parallel play. Especially at the end of the day  if she's already in a SN preschool. If she's already burned through her ability to attend and work for the day and that adding "social skills" may be pointless. It might make more sense for you to do an hour of 1:1 Floortime at home for now.

  
  Social skills group at two helped dd tremendously. She did not tolerate being around other children well at all. When we would take her to play at the gym daycare she would position herself as far away from the action as possible completely immersed in her own world. After completing just a session she started being more socially aware and would watch other kids and mimic. I can't imagine that time would be better spent in 1:1 therapy where she shined.

  

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• kcisthebombdotcom member

  March 2014

  -auntie- said:

  @KC_13 said:

  
  

  Social skills group at two helped dd tremendously. She did not tolerate being around other children well at all. When we would take her to play at the gym daycare she would position herself as far away from the action as possible completely immersed in her own world. After completing just a session she started being more socially aware and would watch other kids and mimic. I can't imagine that time would be better spent in 1:1 therapy where she shined.
  

  
  

  This is a good point. But not all kids have as subtle a presentation as your DD does; very few twos on spectrum are going to watch peers and mimic them. Nor do they have an older sibling in house who offers natural opportunities for skills like taking turns, asking, sharing, good sportsmanship. 

  
  

  YMMV, but when we did 1:1 Floortime to teach DS these social skills it was me acting as therapist. While I gave him opportunities to do well, shine as it were, it wasn't as if it was some sort of indulgent playdate- it was therapy. He was happy for the attention, but I made sure he did the heavy lifting that gave him transferable play skills.

  
  

  The other piece is that I think they only recently added a SN preschool, it might make sense to back off on the extras now and let her get used to the schedule of school before adding more therapy to the mix. Behavior is communication- if she's acting out, something in her life isn't working.

  
  Maybe I'm wrong and my dd was destined to have a subtle presentation but I think the reason why she does is because she's been in therapies since 17 months old. I do believe if we weren't so proactive she would have been as affected as she was at 1.5. I don't think through natural development she would have noticed and mimicked peers but on the contrary starting social skills therapy the week she turned two taught her that level of social awareness.

  

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• mightmom13 member

  March 2014

  Trying to answer all at once here - been absent at work for the weekend:

  KC_13 said:

  -auntie- said:

  @KC_13 said:

  
  

  Social skills group at two helped dd tremendously. She did not tolerate being around other children well at all. When we would take her to play at the gym daycare she would position herself as far away from the action as possible completely immersed in her own world. After completing just a session she started being more socially aware and would watch other kids and mimic. I can't imagine that time would be better spent in 1:1 therapy where she shined.

  
  

  DD was very similar at 1.5 years-2 years in that she would shout at/around other kids at the playground as their mere existence was an annoyance. This made park time very limited but due to my on/off schedule - we can fit in times when school is in session. At school, she wouldn't speak at all, still doesn't (new school on Monday) - she gets 3 one on one hour sessions plus mom floor time during the week. "Group" (the term makes me laugh, but in a good way) was suggested by behavioral/developmental therapist who designed it as well. 

  
  

  This is a good point. But not all kids have as subtle a presentation as your DD does; very few twos on spectrum are going to watch peers and mimic them. Nor do they have an older sibling in house who offers natural opportunities for skills like taking turns, asking, sharing, good sportsmanship. 

  
  

  When in family sessions, she knows how to share or that she should and therefore others as well but gets verbally pissed (excuse the language but best way to describe) when her older cousin by 4 months "does not take turns" "not playing nice." This was the great hunger games aka Thanksgiving this past fall - terrible as she was trying SO hard to wait/take turns and then was a mess after her cousin was out of turn or knocked her blocks down. 

  
  

  YMMV, but when we did 1:1 Floortime to teach DS these social skills it was me acting as therapist. While I gave him opportunities to do well, shine as it were, it wasn't as if it was some sort of indulgent playdate- it was therapy. He was happy for the attention, but I made sure he did the heavy lifting that gave him transferable play skills.

  
  

  This is where it gets tough - I want to help her with activities and am trying to model more everyday things when we sit close (drawing together as practice for home worksheets, laundry helper where she can get sensory, unloading dishwasher, Thomas matching game for turn taking/simple game rules) however, sometimes lately she just wants to emulate or even "be" the mommy and then gets stuck in cycle. I am having a hard time "training" her to "play." emulation is completely parrot-like with no deviation of what I am actually doing, no hey let's throw this in today. 

  
  

  The other piece is that I think they only recently added a SN preschool, it might make sense to back off on the extras now and let her get used to the schedule of school before adding more therapy to the mix. Behavior is communication- if she's acting out, something in her life isn't working.

  
  

  No SN preschool yet - just a different school, better teacher ratio, more curriculum than just daycare we hope your kid survives type place. It is a national chain but was recommended by therapists and looked into by me and DD. She will have her full school system eval and IEP in May. It is the same day as morning OT and afternoon behavior therapy day though.  

  
  Maybe I'm wrong and my dd was destined to have a subtle presentation but I think the reason why she does is because she's been in therapies since 17 months old. I do believe if we weren't so proactive she would have been as affected as she was at 1.5. I don't think through natural development she would have noticed and mimicked peers but on the contrary starting social skills therapy the week she turned two taught her that level of social awareness.

  DD started speech to soon be followed by PT and OT at around 16 months as well with speech having a very rounded approach and familiar/experience with ASD kiddos as well. Her PT and OT were/are similar in practice as well - they focus on their areas but are aware of global goals and all communicate - the same with her behavior therapist. She tells me ALL about her peers in many words at home, in the car, whenever an incident her her own mind happens. At her now old school - nothing, biggest sentence "no that's mine." She narrates both her expected day in great detail along with what happened and there is that imaginary piece coming in that is killing context, organization, clarity, etc now though. DD will be 3 in a few months and does not recognize her age appropriate peers as peers rather more 5-7 year olds and that is the age group that are in her social group; though she has the emotional capacity for this stuff as a 1-2 year old would but it appears to just throw her off being invited in by the therapists at group. Where at school she would be the kid in the corner throwing herself on the mats and screaming at the peers trying to hug, play, or be in her space. 

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• mightmom13 member

  March 2014

  Sorry - format is completely off. 

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• mightmom13 member

  April 2014

  I am not, though I know I need too. I was taught in the beginning by DD's therapists during her therapy - as she as aged I have taken a step back during sessions a bit to 1) decrease the need for mom, momma, mommy 2) get her more comfortable working one on one with non-preferred care-givers (though they are now preferred) and 3) not interpret what she is saying either litter ally or in context to see where she really needs to work on things. 

  
  

  I know that going into the IEP set - that recommended "get the books" floor-time will be necessary. The chore part came from her just not playing - though she is a little better now - so I took everyday things that she loves to copy-cat and act out and I tried to turn them into games (i.e obstacle courses for sensory/energy/PT, laundry into basketball, and "cooking play" into using her own imagination however all she makes is "make.") 

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