CIO because "all the old people at work told me that's what we need to do"

sweetsyrup · March 2014

So according to my dh last night, we should just let Logan cry because that's what his employees told him they did with their kids. He's 14 weeks on Friday and is still up every two hours during the night. H is easily frustrated and isn't really great about being patient with Logan.

I have tried time and time again to explain why it isn't appropriate. I've encouraged him to educate himself, but it gets the best of him at night.

We ebf and don't have issues with supply (get 5 oz when i pump per session at work).

1. When does the sleep get better. My employees don't understand my sleep deprived jargon....
And 2. any suggestions about how to get him to be less dense? Or to understand how it would impact lo?
3. I don't know how to gif, but you get all the cake and cookies for reading. And wine. Lots of wine.

SusanC111 · March 2014

Google 5 words baby say and watch the Oprah clip on you tube. Make your DH watch it. Hopefully it will become clear your baby NEEDS something and doesn't just wanna, you know, hang out in the middle of the night. When does sleep get better? There's no way to know. With my first we were all sleeping great by 9 weeks. Not so much with this one. But it WILL get better eventually. Hang in there. And make him watch the Oprah clip.

Caitlinh27 · March 2014

Holy cow I could have written this myself. Like word for word.
He just does not get why it's not okay to let them CIO at this age, no matter how many different ways I try to explain it.
Our LO is also EBF and is waking up every 2-3 hours during the night and DH thinks that it's because he knows he'll get my attention if he cries.
I'm just getting so frustrated.
I will be following this post for sure!

Hmvbaby14 · March 2014

My DS is 14 weeks on Thursday and also not sttn. Some nights we get longer stretches than others but, he's definitely not sleeping like lots of babies seem to be by this age. My defense to DH-he's actually very understanding and often reminds me that it will get better soon-- and everyone else that feels like they should give me their opinion is that it's completely normal for him to not be sttn. I'm not going to let him CIO because he can't self soothe. DS is doing the best he can and I'm doing the best I can and things will get better. We will all get more sleep soon, it's just going to take longer for some of us.

tyedyeme12 · March 2014

DH came home from work spouting off crap like that the other day. I said "he's not crying it out." And dh says "but, he needs to learn how to calm himself down" and I replied with "he's not crying it out." I repeated until it was effective. Lol.

But in all actuality, once dh saw how adamant I was about this, and that it was very important to me that LO doesn't need to be CIO, I think he assumed I had researched it and he trusted my mommy knowledge. Like pp said, tell him to research it, or show him what you've found. Not just threads from us on here, but maybe some links that have gone with it. Maybe show him some stuff on "wait it out." Look it up together.

Caitlinh27 · March 2014

We watched the Oprah clip together last night. I loved it and found it really interesting, but DH didn't seem too impressed. All he said afterwards was "so are going to try to start doing that?" lol

HareemVaiyani · March 2014

Loved the oprah video! Thanks for sharing

Jen4033 · March 2014

I honestly can't remember the source, but a long time ago I remember hearing/reading that a newborn actually feels feelings of abandonment when left to CIO. this has an impact other emotional development. I should see if I can find anything on that. CIO is not on the table in my family.

snorticusprime · March 2014

mrsashleyk said:
Anybody have links to why babies shouldn't cry it out? I told my husband to do research on it and the only stuff he found was on blogs. I just said "well I don't want to" but I would like to have something to show him.

Our pedi gives us a new handout at all our wellness checks. It talks about development and not to CIO bc tending to your child teaches them trust, will help them learn to self soothe, and plays a part in their future social relationships. It is put out by the AAP. Maybe check their website?

SusanC111 · March 2014

Caitlinh27 said:

We watched the Oprah clip together last night. I loved it and found it really interesting, but DH didn't seem too impressed. All he said afterwards was "so are going to try to start doing that?"

UGH trapped in the quote box.
DH and I watched it together when our first was a month old or so. He also didn't seem impressed. We take turns in the MOTN and one morning he said "I rewatched that clip 7 times last night. I think I had a breakthrough." So your DH might surprise you. FWIW, my babies only 'say' the burp word, but that in itself was SO helpful. I'd think, ok he burped 2 or 3 times, why is he still crying? And that video told me he still had burps.

sweetsyrup · March 2014

We surprisingly have watched the Oprah video. And it's been spot on. He's getting there on the self soothing, will be content for 20-30 minutes in the pnp.

I tried explaining the whole abandonment issues based on some videos I remember watching when I was still in college about the psychology of it all, but I can't find the video anymore.

he's gone for the next week so I guess I don't have to worry about it right now. I have some more time to research. I may have to show it to my mother because she thinks CIO is the way to go as well.....

ScarlettV · March 2014

@sweetsyrup‌ Here are a couple studies/articles.

https://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out

https://anaesthetics.ukzn.ac.za/Libraries/Documents2011/Early_human_development_June12.sflb.ashx

FYI: I haven't read both of these slowly and carefully , just did a quick speed read after they popped up. I will let you decide if they will help with your case.

ScarlettV · March 2014

Also: I tried to explain my view of CIO to DH like this...

To me, CIO is like setting a bottle of milk down in front of a two month old baby and saying "well you have to learn to feed yourself eventually, mine as well start now. And you better figure it out fast, or else you're going to go hungry."

DH may say it's not the same thing, because baby doesn't have the motor skills to pick the bottle up - but it is. Because you're trying to force them to learn a skill they aren't ready to yet. And no baby can physically cry forever. Eventually they have to stop, but that doesn't mean it's because you're succeeding at teaching them something.

Jen4033 · March 2014

Anyone have the link to Oprah's video on this? I'm looking for it & for the life of me cannot find it!

ScarlettV · March 2014

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PgkZf6jVdVg

This the one?

heathernikki · March 2014

Our pedi told us to sleep train which includes CIO at 8 weeks. We thought he was too young but we weren't sleeping and I had to go back to work so we hesitantly tried it at 9 weeks. We had one miserable heart breaking night, one better but not great night, and by night three things were much better. When he cries after being put to bed, which is rare, we will go in his room and try to soothe him but not pick him up. Typically he will put himself back to sleep after maybe 5-10 min of crying. I think the sleep training worked for us because he would cry at night just wanting to be held, a bad habit we got him into. He did learn how to self sooth and put himself back to sleep, at least at night. He now either sleeps from 7p-6a or wakes once around 4 or 5 to eat and goes back to bed. I say give it a try. Make sure your baby's fed, has a clean diaper, and is warm. Then let them cry, checking in on them periodically to try and soothe them. They will learn that every time they cry they aren't going to be held. We are still trying to break the daytime version of this, but one thing at a time.

Caitlinh27 · March 2014

heathernikki said:

Our pedi told us to sleep train which includes CIO at 8 weeks. We thought he was too young but we weren't sleeping and I had to go back to work so we hesitantly tried it at 9 weeks. We had one miserable heart breaking night, one better but not great night, and by night three things were much better. When he cries after being put to bed, which is rare, we will go in his room and try to soothe him but not pick him up. Typically he will put himself back to sleep after maybe 5-10 min of crying. I think the sleep training worked for us because he would cry at night just wanting to be held, a bad habit we got him into. He did learn how to self sooth and put himself back to sleep, at least at night. He now either sleeps from 7p-6a or wakes once around 4 or 5 to eat and goes back to bed. I say give it a try. Make sure your baby's fed, has a clean diaper, and is warm. Then let them cry, checking in on them periodically to try and soothe them. They will learn that every time they cry they aren't going to be held. We are still trying to break the daytime version of this, but one thing at a time.

That's great that it worked for you (though I do feel bad for your baby) but I am still not willing to try it. I strongly agree with the articles I have read that say it is very important to build trust at this age. They need to know that if they need you, you will be there. I'm not willing to let LO scream in his crib and wonder why I'm not coming to get him.

ScarlettV · March 2014

Yea. @heathernikki‌ You should check out the study I posted. In a nutshell they measured the cortisol levels (stress levels) of babies being allowed to CIO. After 3 days the babies cried shorter periods and eventually went to sleep faster - however, even though they were no longer crying, theyre cortisol levels (stress levels ) were just as high as they'd been when they were crying. So basically they had quieted down but were still terrified. Just something to consider.

Caitlinh27 · March 2014

@ScarlettV Thank you for posting the links to those articles! They were really interesting and very helpful.

Cambury108 · March 2014

I sadly think that sleep training is to much like CIO. I don't think they learn to soothe, I think they learn that crying gets them nothing anyway so why do it in the first place. So they just go to sleep. Makes me sad for the babies that have to go thru that. I do admit that as a young first time mom I did it to my first DD for 3 nights and I cried in my room right along with her, after 3 nights I brought her back into my bed. I couldn't do it to her.

Chichigo · March 2014

I'm against CIO. Ive read criticism of the stress study though. The babies were in an unfamiliar place, a sleep lab, which could contribute to stress. Just be prepared.for that argument. A

heathernikki · March 2014

I don't think you quite understand. No need for all the harsh judgements. The point is not to put him in his crib and just sit there and do nothing. The point is to be able to put him down long enough to go pee. He had issues with being out down at all as he was constantly held. The second his body hit the bouncer, swing, boppy, you name it, he would cry. He is still tended to at night when he cries, every time he cries. He's just not picked up immediately. Sometimes all he wants is a pacifier and his belly rubbed. CIO is harsh, and sleep training is not for everyone. However, there are happy mediums to letting your kid cry unattended all night with CIO and you not sleeping. All I'm trying to provide is a second opinion. I love my kid more than anything and he gets just as much love as every other baby.

Caitlinh27 · March 2014

heathernikki said:
I don't think you quite understand. No need for all the harsh judgements. The point is not to put him in his crib and just sit there and do nothing. The point is to be able to put him down long enough to go pee. He had issues with being out down at all as he was constantly held. The second his body hit the bouncer, swing, boppy, you name it, he would cry. He is still tended to at night when he cries, every time he cries. He's just not picked up immediately. Sometimes all he wants is a pacifier and his belly rubbed. CIO is harsh, and sleep training is not for everyone. However, there are happy mediums to letting your kid cry unattended all night with CIO and you not sleeping. All I'm trying to provide is a second opinion. I love my kid more than anything and he gets just as much love as every other baby.

My son does all of those things. He will scream whenever put down, and sometimes even when I'm holding him. Sure it's frustrating at times, but I'm not willing to set him down and let him cry. Why not pick him up immediately when he cries at night? Do you just lay there and listen to him cry? It's not like he is going to get spoiled by you tending to him and figuring out what he needs like a parent is supposed to do.

micino · March 2014

It is physically and mentally impossible for me. I can't bare to hear her cry. It is just not in my nature.
These little ones are not manipulative (yet)
They are just clearly trying to communicate something to us.
I'm hungry
I'm wet
I'm uncomfortable
I can't shit but I have gas
And mostly I'm lonely

The only thing familiar is your closeness.

As I said before, even wild animals tend to their crying young. Why wouldn't you?

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