DH put child in front seat with no seatbelt!

acia · March 2014

Ok so I haven't posted on here in what feels like forever, but I just really needed to get some input to see if I'm over-reacting.

DH took our 4-year-old to the park this morning in the car, which is a short 3-4 minute drive from our house (less than a mile). When she got back, she proudly announced that daddy let her ride in the front seat with no seatbelt on. I couldn't' believe it. I talked to him about it later, and told him that I thought it was a bad a idea, illegal and unsafe.

I realize that it's unlikely that anything would happen - we live in a relatively residential area - but there are restaurants and cafes nearby so constant cars passing through, and some truck traffic. More importantly to me is the principal, teaching her that it's ok to break the safety rules (that I feel are very important) for fun. Plus, in my opinion, even small collisions, ones that can easily occur driving on any road, like someone backing out of their driveway or rear ending you, could push her out of her seat into the dashboard. Obviously unlikely to cause serious damage, but why not avoid the possibility of a broken nose or concussion, ya know?

He thinks I'm overreacting and that it's not a big deal and says that he'd have no problem doing it again. He said she could get hit by a car just walking on the sidewalk too so now am I not going to let her walk on the sidewalk?? Anyways bottom line is he says we'll have to "agree to disagree," which makes me feel pretty nervous about letting him take care of the kids without me there!

Please tell me I'm not the only one who feels that this is unacceptable.... Or if I'm overreacting, maybe help me see it from his point of view?

chardonnay24 · March 2014

Nope, I'd be livid. If he said he was going to do it again and didn't see why it was so wrong, I'd have a hard time trusting him alone with the kids.

blu-eyedwife · March 2014

Totally not acceptable and you are not over-reacting. My son's preschool is literally next door to our complex. There are days when I have to fight to get him in his carseat, because he's fooling around and climbing around the car instead. I've been so tempted to just stick him in a seat and drive the less than 1 block. And even then, I don't. It's a safety issue and your husband's argument is invalid. You are more likely to be hit by a car while in a car than as a pedestrian.

sunnyday016 · March 2014

RedheadBaker said:

Oh hell no. Not overreacting. That is NOT okay. There is no "agree to disagree" about this. What he did is illegal and dangerous.

This. And based on his reaction, I would lose trust in him not only in watching the kids alone, but overall trust. These are your children, whom you love and are raising together. It's not okay for him to disregard something you feel strongly about, no matter what the issue is. Since this is literally a matter of life and death that his is laughing off, it would fracture my trust in him completely. I'm sorry

This would be a HUGE deal for me and for our marriage.

sunnyday016 · March 2014

Also, I'm assuming your car has a passenger air bag. Crazier things have happened than an airbag misfiring or it going off due to a pothole or braking hard. She would most likely be killed instantly in front of an airbag

MamaAllison · March 2014

This might be shitty advice but if you suspected him of doing that again I would call the cops on him. He sounds like he needs to hear that is not ok from someone other than you. I think you make a great point about not breaking safety rules for fun.

laurakaz13 · March 2014

MamaAllison said:

This might be shitty advice but if you suspected him of doing that again I would call the cops on him. He sounds like he needs to hear that is not ok from someone other than you. I think you make a great point about not breaking safety rules for fun.

I do think this is horrible advice. This would cause so much pain and would no doubt ruin your marriage and furthermore your children's lives.

That being said, what your DH did is illegal, scary and dangerous. You need to talk to him about this. Not okay! There is no agree to disagree. This is a one-sided debate. You are right and he is wrong. Period.

kalette · March 2014

He would be a dead man imo. I don't think you are over reacting at all.

rodiesmum · March 2014

you are not over reacting at all. DH once tried, and he wasnt even able to turn on the engine, yet he never heard the end of it.

acia · March 2014

Thanks ladies. I somehow feel better knowing I'm not over-reacting to this!

I talked to my DH about it again, and explained what a big deal this was to me, and how unsafe I felt it was. He told me he still disagrees that he was putting her in danger, but that he won't do it again simply to avoid the argument. He says we should be teaching her that it's ok to break rules sometimes, if there's no harm in it - there are grey areas in life. I told him that I'm still teaching her to FOLLOW rules and I don't think she's old enough or has the reasoning capacity to understand exceptions to rules such as "if you're only driving for 2 minutes you don't have to follow the rules of the road."

Needless to say, I'm very seriously questioning his judgement as a parent right now....

sucredee · March 2014

It is totally fine to break some rules from time to time. Car seat safety is not one of those. That is potentially a life or death decision. Most accidents happens within a 3 mile radius of home so take that FWIW (I don't remember where I got that statistic but it stayed with me ever since I read that and it was a reputable source). My DH wanted to turn DD FF last year (she will be 4 in May) because it would be fun. I was adamant that she stay RF until she outgrows the seat because it is safer. I did not want to have a fight with DD "but in daddy's car..." every time we drive in my car (which is most of the time). He did respect my wishes luckily and that was for something that was not illegal to do. Not buckling a kid at all and putting them in the front seat is plain stupid. Now your DH may do it again and then teach your DD to not tell mommy. That would be bad as well. Hopefully he will not do this. My friend put her DD in the back of the car recently in a makeshift bed while it was snowing like crazy (on a trip to the mountains). DD saw this while we had stopped for gas (and my friend did not even try to hide it). The next time we were in the car she wanted to be in the back like her friend. Ummm, no. That is illegal and explained that to her kids are impressionable and safety is not something that should be messed with. I can't believe your H would put his own kids at risk like that. And I grew up in the era of no car seats. I know it is tempting at times to do it but it just isn't worth the risk.

sunnyday016 · March 2014

acia said:

Thanks ladies. I somehow feel better knowing I'm not over-reacting to this!

I talked to my DH about it again, and explained what a big deal this was to me, and how unsafe I felt it was. He told me he still disagrees that he was putting her in danger, but that he won't do it again simply to avoid the argument. He says we should be teaching her that it's ok to break rules sometimes, if there's no harm in it - there are grey areas in life. I told him that I'm still teaching her to FOLLOW rules and I don't think she's old enough or has the reasoning capacity to understand exceptions to rules such as "if you're only driving for 2 minutes you don't have to follow the rules of the road."

Needless to say, I'm very seriously questioning his judgement as a parent right now....

Yes, you DO. Every drive, no matter how short or close to home, you follow the rules of the road, and I hope that you as the driver do as well.

janinekrause · March 2014

I still can't believe your DH doesn't "get it". We break rules all the time too but not laws. Yes, my kids were FF before age 2 which some don't agree with. But I would never ever ever let my kid ride without a car seat or in the front seat. I remember when I was little, my dad used to take me to an empty parking lot and I use to sit on his lap and "drive"- I cant imagine doing that, but in terms of danger, very little.

Explain to him that breaking rules is not the same as breaking the law.

My 5 year old of course has asked to not be strapped in or ride in front seat. I tell her its against the law and not safe, and that I would go to jail That ends the conversation fast.

SusieBW · March 2014

I agree with everyone else. You're not overreacting at all. It is tempting sometimes to just let DD ride in the car, not in her carseat (like when we're driving from one store to another in the same shopping plaza), but it doesn't matter how tempting it might be, it's just not going to happen.

sschwege · March 2014

sunnyday016 said:

acia said:

Thanks ladies. I somehow feel better knowing I'm not over-reacting to this!

I talked to my DH about it again, and explained what a big deal this was to me, and how unsafe I felt it was. He told me he still disagrees that he was putting her in danger, but that he won't do it again simply to avoid the argument. He says we should be teaching her that it's ok to break rules sometimes, if there's no harm in it - there are grey areas in life. I told him that I'm still teaching her to FOLLOW rules and I don't think she's old enough or has the reasoning capacity to understand exceptions to rules such as "if you're only driving for 2 minutes you don't have to follow the rules of the road."

Needless to say, I'm very seriously questioning his judgement as a parent right now....

Yes, you DO. Every drive, no matter how short or close to home, you follow the rules of the road, and I hope that you as the driver do as well.

This! This was years ago, when I used to be a nanny. I was in a parking lot, parked the car, got the boy I used to care for out of the car, went to feed the meter...broken! I had to pull into the spot next to us. Don't you think it was tempting to just sit him in the seat while I backed up and pulled into the other spot? We are talking a matter of a few feet here, but wrong is wrong in these kind of situations! I buckled him in his car seat again and drove us one spot over.

There are many, many things wrong with this situation to the point where I'm not sure I could trust someone with such poor judgement. But I wanted to say, I wonder how he will like it when your daughter is old enough to drive and comes home with a ticket for driving without a seatbelt, or making a quick call while driving, or if her insurance rates go up because of speeding? Obviously much worse things can happen than what I mentioned, but perhaps that's a way to get through to him?

TiffanyBerry · March 2014

I agree with him about teaching her that some rules should be critically analyzed and then NOT followed when appropriate. He, however, massively fails at the critical analysis and determining appropriateness.

acia · March 2014

TiffanyBerry said:

I agree with him about teaching her that some rules should be critically analyzed and then NOT followed when appropriate. He, however, massively fails at the critical analysis and determining appropriateness.

Haha I had to smile at this - yes, I totally agree - in this case he absolutely fails.

The most ironic thing about all this is that my husband is a scientist. I mean a real lab-coat wearing PhD neuroscientist who studies CONCUSSIONS!! He should know better and certainly have better analytic skills.

Several days (and "discussions") later he is still telling me that he thinks it's fine to drive a few blocks unbuckled, but promises not to do it again. And I am still questioning his overall judgement as a parent.

TiffanyBerry · March 2014

@acia - maybe you guys could have the scientific discussion then. my guess would be that he feels that the risk/reward ratio leans towards the convenient answer. but, an off-the-cuff estimation of risk versus reward is HIGHLY prone to emotional bias. (why do NFL players keep playing even with serious concussions!)

I would bet that if you asked him to talk out and CALCULATE the appropriate answer to this decision, he would himself come to a different conclusion. I mean a full calculation of cost of one outcome weight by the risk of that outcome and so on over all the likely outcomes. (To be fair, while most accidents happen close to home, he's right that the odds of an accident happening close to home are still very low. BUT the cost of any accident if she's unbuckled is very high (death or serious injury) and the return (the length of time it takes to buckle/unbuckle her) is actually NOT high, though it might be perceived to be.

And none of that includes teaching her about how to effectively evaluate risks and rewards when it comes to breaking rules.

aglenn · March 2014

Team no way. The fact that he still thinks it's fine and is just agreeing to pacify you is unacceptable. That would make me really nervous about what else he might think is no big deal.

gnrkrystle1 · March 2014

While I think your husband is in the wrong, I mostly think so because it's illegal. The fact of the matter is, 30 years ago, this wouldn't have caused many to bat an eye. Some how, we all made it to adulthood alive without freaking out over every single thing. And he has a point, a lot of things are much more dangerous than not wearing a seatbelt, but we don't worry about them? Why? Generally because we are engineered to worry about some things and disregard others for our own sanity, and sometimes marketing. Do you think child safety seats were legally required to a certain age regardless of size because of safety, or was is JUST A LITTLE BIT the carseat lobby pushing for those laws?

Anyway, Four is too young to be in the front seat at all, and I'd explain that to your husband. But if you make it seem like what he did is borderline child abuse, you probably aren't going to get him to listen to you. He loves your daughter as much as you do, never forget that. His way of parenting has a rhyme and reason, and perhaps you guys should talk about it and discuss in a non-hysterical way what your parenting philosophies are and why.

For the record, there've been more than one occasion where I would have liked to have comforted my infant while riding in the car with my husband. Call me nuts, but on a long trip, I tend to think holding him in my arms is better than being strapped in a seat crying...but CPS would have my children taken from me in 5 seconds flat because...laws.

kgs0505 · March 2014

Most car accidents are within a 5 mile radius of the home.

mysticl · March 2014

OP I can give you a scenario that fits why your husband thinks it's ok and why it really isn't. When I was a teenager I got in the front passenger seat of our car so my mom could drive me to school. The speed limit within the town limits is 25mph. We lived at the top of a block on a one way street. She drove one block south, turned left and drove one block east on a 2 way street. At the end of that block she came to a stop at a stop sign and looked to her right only as that was a one way street. She saw a car a block away, since the speed limit was 25 she had plenty of time to clear the intersection so she proceeded through. What she had no way of knowing was the driver of that car was doing 40 mph over the limit. That's right he was doing 65mph in a town where the speed limit does not go over 25, in an area where kids would be walking to school. He t-boned us right where I was sitting. The impact decreased the size of my seat by half and completely broke the passenger window. I was covered in glass. The first person to our car wouldn't open the door because he was afraid of doing more damage to me. An EMT was driving on the same street and stopped. He opened my door and started evaluating me. I was taken away on a back board. They suspected a neck injury, back injury, and broken femur. I walked out of the hospital later that day with bruises and a whole lot of muscle aches. I had been wearing my seat belt. If it didn't save my life it at least saved my from injury. My mother also walked out of the hospital that day but did sustain a bruised kidney. The impact knocked the shoes off of her feet. She was also wearing her seatbelt.

An unrestrained four-year-old probably would have flown all over the inside of that car.

sunnyday016 · March 2014

Well said, Fredalina.

And if the "carseat lobby" had any pull the laws would be about what is actually safe for kids, rather than these bare minimum laws that we do have.

sugarbear0524 · March 2014

The other difference is that we now have air bags in the front seat, which are great for adults but can be deadly to children.

fitmom82 · March 2014

I'm pretty easy going, but your DH's parenting philosophy really scares me. Who intentionally teaches a 4 year old its ok to intentionally break the law sometimes? DH told me a few months ago that he drove our DS, 1 1/2, a few blocks home from his brother's in the backseat without a car seat. It wound up being a stupid joke, but I flipped out. I told him if he had happened to be pulled over I wonder if the cops would take the child. I can't imagine them allowing the parent to continue to drive like that.

KrisM86 · March 2014

You're not overreacting. If he'd gotten into even a minor accident, your child could have easily been injured or killed. I would be LIVID. That's just a stupid, totally unnecessary risk to have taken.

KrisM86 · March 2014

I also have no clue how your husband disagrees that he was putting your child in danger. What if another car had come flying up and crashed into his? I don't care how safely he drives, all it takes is one reckless or drunk driver and there goes your child's life because he didn't feel the need to put her in a car seat.

DawnLilly · March 2014

DH let our not even 2 year old sit on his lap and "drive" home from the farm. It's 1/4 of a mile. I saw him pull in the drive and was about to go ape shit until DS held on to the wheel and threw the the biggest tantrum ever because it was over and DH had trouble prying him from the truck. They walked into the house and I said "Learn your lesson?" And he said "yup"

I would just educate your DH. This doesn't have to be an ongoing trust issue. He just needs to learn what is safe and what is not.

yeah. · March 2014

He's a scientist? Give him the data on children's deaths when they're not in car seats.

Totally boneheaded, and unacceptable. I'm all for breaking rules, but safety laws are not covered. I'm pissed at your husband and I don't even know him.

Tell him to drive by my house with her in the front seat...I'll call the cops.

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