Another dinner question

TJ1979 · March 2014

Sorry I'm such a PW lately. I find myself having more and more questions as E gets older.

For the past month or so, dinner has become frustrating for us. We have always been very lucky that E has been a very good eater. She does go through phases, but since we BLW from the start, I have always just trusted her, and if she didn't feel like eating, didn't force it. But suddenly dinner is a struggle every night. She is suddenly wanting us to feed her, which we have never, ever done. If her daddy or I have anything she doesn't have (dipping sauce, chopsticks, steak knife) she completely loses it. And several times this month she has just flat out refused to eat any dinner, even when we cater to her every whim (i.e. she begs us to feed her using our chopsticks, and dipping her food in the sauce. Then when we finally get everything loaded on the chopsticks to her exact specifications, she won't open her mouth. So frustrating!)

My two questions are: 1) Is this just her age (20 months)/just a phase? And 2) If she doesn't eat any dinner at all, do we cave and let her have an applesauce pouch, which she will eat without fail, just so she has something in her tummy? Or is that reinforcing her behavior?

Thanks for any suggestions ladies.

kbeach82 · March 2014

My good eater disappeared around that age too. Sigh. Sadly, he is still a very picky eater at almost 3. Before I had children, I was always of the "If you don't eat what I make, then you don't eat" conviction. Oh, the things we say before we have kids. I was always worried that V would be hungry (mostly that he would wake up in the middle of the night hungry), so I would offer him something I knew he would eat - a bagel with cream cheese, apple slices and peanut butter, something like that). Maybe that did reinforce the behavior, but that is just the kind of mother that I choose to be.

I will say that since the twins were born, things have been a tad more...chaotic at our house. I don't stress nearly as much about food as I once did. If V doesn't want to eat anything, then he doesn't have to, and I don't offer anything else. If he asks for something (within reason) later and says that he is hungry, I will give it to him. Otherwise I just don't worry about it. I know that he won't starve himself, and that's good enough for me.

Toddlerhood and food seem to go hand in hand with a lot of frustration (on our part). I continue to offer healthy options and hope that one day, my good eater will return. Good luck!

TJ1979 · March 2014

Thanks @kbeach82. Not exactly the news I wanted to hear, haha. I have also been offering something else to eat because I worry about her waking up in the night hungry, and I'm just too darn exhausted to deal with that. But MH got really mad that I did that last night. So I was curious what others do. She does know how to ask for more though, so maybe I can rely on her.
I hope V starts eating better soon!

Robeano · March 2014

This is such a huge issue, and from observation of other people's kids it only gets worse. I think ultimately try to incorporate at least one food you know she will eat with dinner, then let her choose. Good luck!

Mr. & Mrs. Woodtick · March 2014

DS has been doing this since he was about that age and he still does it and he just turned two. I actually asked his Pedi about it at our last appointment and she said it is completely normal. She said that children this age will generally eat two "good" meals, and about two snacks, and the third meal might be a struggle, or they may just not eat it. As long as they are eating throughout the day she told us to just let it go.

pb_bride · March 2014

@TJ1979 big hugs. I know how frustrating this can be! It seems like Miss E is asserting her independence and testing her limits. It is all normal (so I've been told) but it is still frustrating no less.

Obviously, M isn't at *that* stage yet, but I think you know that we have gone through many phases of difficulties with food with M. Things have gone much, much better over the past 2 months or so, esp after I've read Fearless Feeding. It changed my attitude towards meal times and I think M senses that too. I no longer get frustrated or angry at him (or myself).

Here are my 2 cents:

When M skipped an entire dinner, he has never, ever woken up MOTN hungry. In fact, he didn't appear any hungrier than usual the next morning. I've read that we should remind the child that he/she will not get any food until the next morning. They may not understand it now, but they will get it eventually.

We always give fruits to M after dinner (ie, after he is done with the savory foods). He usually splits a banana with DH, sometimes I have fresh cut fruits for him. Even if he didn't eat any dinner, he would always eat fruits. He can have more fruits if he wants, and as much milk as he likes. But I never give him other foods (filler foods, pouches etc). I definitely feel that it feeds into unwanted behavior and the kids learn to "hold out" for something better.

I think in the past you've mentioned that E gets a snack after she gets home from DC? Is she still getting it? For M, ever since I cut out his afternoon snack, he is now eating MUCH better for me at dinner (ie, more willing to try new/unfamiliar foods). Nowadays his last snack is at 2:30p and dinner at 6:30pm. Very rarely he'll complain about being hungry before dinner.

As @Robeano mentioned, I always try my best to have at least 1 familiar food in his dinner plate, esp when introducing new foods.

I think the "want chopsticks/steak knives" part is just a phase. As I said in your other post, M was whining to have our chopsticks for couple of weeks (or months?). We kept telling him "no, we are using it, and you can have yours later." And we give him HIS own chopsticks after he's done eating. M doesn't throw a fit, however. And he's stopped asking for chopsticks these days.

Finally, I no longer cater to M. He gets his plate and we get ours. If he doesn't want it (usu b/c it looks "new"), we take his plate off his tray and put it on the dining table. DH & I just ignore him. It took a while for all of us to get used to this, but nowadays, after 30-60 seconds, M will ask for his plate back and eat his food. The only request I cater to him is when he asks for more.

TJ1979 · March 2014

pb_bride said:

I think in the past you've mentioned that E gets a snack after she gets home from DC? Is she still getting it? For M, ever since I cut out his afternoon snack, he is now eating MUCH better for me at dinner (ie, more willing to try new/unfamiliar foods). Nowadays his last snack is at 2:30p and dinner at 6:30pm. Very rarely he'll complain about being hungry before dinner.

She does still get an after school snack. From the minute she gets home until dinner time, she whines for "snack" and "more." I mean, she straight up whines from the minute she gets home until the minute we sit down for dinner, every single school day. I often wonder whether the DC isn't feeding her enough (this issue should be worked out when the nanny starts Monday, if that's the case) or if she is just really tired, and wants to eat and go to bed.

Why is parenting so hard, sheesh! I wish she could just tell us what the deal is!

ccam · March 2014

DH used to pretty much flip out when DS would not eat dinner. He would end up making him five different things (chicken nuggets, waffle, quesadilla, etc.) hoping that he'd eat something. But I have asked DH to avoid doing that and just sticking to what we eat for dinner. So DS always gets what we eat or a version of it unless he's either sick or he can't eat what we're eating (steak, spicy, etc.). I also always make sure that there is something on his plate that I know he'll eat (right now it's cheese or cherry tomatoes). Usually once he takes a few bites of that, he will go on to at least try everything else on his plate.

If he flat out refuses to eat, I'll offer some sort of fruit. If he refuses that as well, he doesn't eat. I take his plate and let him sit there while we finish eating. He usually realizes that and fills up on milk. But he's never woke up in the middle of the night hungry. We spoke to his pedi about this and shesaid that's normal at this age. On days like that, as long as we get one really good meal and a few good snacks out of him, he'll be fine. Most days, he eats a great breakfast and lunch, so we're not too concerned.

I've also noticed that he eats best at daycare. I don't know if it's because of the other kids eating or what, but I make sure to pack a big, nutritious lunch for him.

mdiblasi10 · March 2014

Oh, food and toddlers! I swear it's the one thing I worry about and I have a pretty good eater. Is he getting enough? Is it healthy enough? Is he eating too much? You are not alone

The whining after daycare happens here almost every day too. Last night, he didn't want anything I offered for a snack before dinner and pretty much melted down. We have hit the toddler phase in full force this week! I read somewhere, and see others have suggested the same, to always include one item you know they like with their dinner. G gets what we eat/make, and like @pb_bride said, he eats it or I remove his plate. Most times he asks for it again and will eat some or all of it.

It makes me laugh when you talk about the dipping sauces - when we give G BBQ sauce or salsa or guacamole, he will dip the food into it over and over again while eating the sauce off of it. I have to remind him to actually take a bite of the food, and then he will. DH and I find ourselves hiding the sauces when we are out to eat and it comes with the meal, ha!

TJ1979 · March 2014

@mdiblasi10 Okay, so it's definitely their age. Haha. That's the best part about having LOs the exact same age! Unfortunately with E, sometimes even her "guaranteed foods" are not so guaranteed when she's in a mood. Except fruit, fruit is almost always guaranteed. So should we always put a fruit on her plate? If we do that, I worry she will just eat the fruit and nothing else. That happens a lot with breakfast (which we always serve fruit with.) She just eats the fruit and won't touch anything else, and keeps asking for more fruit.

pb_bride · March 2014

Can you offer fruit after the meal is over? So that way you'll know she won't go to bed hungry. M isn't that reliable either when it comes to favorite foods... He may like one food one day and refuse it the next. Bread, pasta, chinese noodles, or rice is usually okay with him, and we tend to have starch for dinner anyway.

What else do you offer at breakfast? M gets a big plate of fruit every morning. Then depending on the day of the week, he may get a bowl of yogurt, or oatmeal, or banana pancakes, or muffin, or plain old cheerios. Most of the other foods tend to trump fruit, but he will still eat some or all of the fruits eventually.

Sometimes M will ask for more pancakes or muffins, but I just tell him it is all gone and there is no more. If he wants to eat, he can eat the fruit.

Ruthie04 · March 2014

Ugh. The pickiness is so crazy around here. It's like they plan it so I can't ever have two good eaters at the same time. I was allowing them to have a little something if they refused a meal or threw, but gave that up about a month ago. That did help with the throwing. It never impacted night sleep, only naps since they'd wake hungry and cranky. Unfortunately, however, we had a well check this week and DS2 lost weight since 15 mos. I'll have to do whatever I can to pack on the calories, despite any behavioral issues. That kid just won't sit still long enough to eat. All he wants are blueberries, cheese, and milk.
He also has a double ear infection, so that probably has something to do with the weight loss.

Anyway, I'm all for setting firm limits, but if E is a little thing (my boys are), you'll need to stack the calories in somewhere else. I'm feeling like a real a-hole mom right now, and I totally regret not pushing him to eat more.

(

TJ1979 · March 2014

Last night we tried skipping the after school snack and just kept her really busy till dinner time. At dinner time, she still barely picked at her peas and corn, and wouldn't touch anything else on the plate. After she was "done" with her plate, she was crying so I offered her fruit. She said yes, but when I brought her a banana, she cried. It was obvious she was expecting an applesauce pouch since she didn't eat her dinner. I gave her the choice between her dinner plate and the banana, she didn't want either, so off to bed she went. I feel good about not caving to her applesauce demands, but I feel bad about her not eating a good dinner.

@Ruthie04 Will he drink a smoothie? E will suck a smoothie down really quickly then get right back to playing. We pack nutrient dense stuff into her smoothies like almond butter, avocado, yogurt, plus fruits and veggies. She's a tiny thing too, so I definitely have to watch her calorie intake.

Ruthie04 · March 2014

TJ- My sister had also issues with weight gain and her kids (It's a family thing! I was only 15 lbs at 1.). She also suggested smoothies. Do you have a recipe you like or do you just make it up? I offer a lot of healthy fats, but he just doesn't want to sit and eat these days.

amd1982 · March 2014

Although my twins are a bit younger than your LO, TJ, we've definitely had some trying times with dinner! it can be super frustrating. What I just keep reminding myself is, if they get hungry enough, they will eat. And we never know whats going on with them, but they're pretty smart beings ya know? Like I knew DS wasn't right one night when he wasn't eating and whining a lot, ends up I think he had some belly aches bc he had some diarrhea the next couple days but then everything went back to normal. Anyway, I'm sure that's not the case with E, but I think it's just a phase. My SIL definitely gave me the talk about not giving in to his every whim (I was making every mistake in the book. Taking everything out of the fridge and putting tons of food on the tray, always giving in and making him a PB sandwich when he wouldn't eat, etc) and I realized I was reinforcing the bad behavior. There were a few nights of pissy, throwing food on the floor, but he still slept through the night and wasn't starving. He's since become a much better eater. But I always remind myself that some days are better than others, and there are times where I'm not hungry so they're entitled to the same right?

@Ruthie - we make a smoothie for our babes in the morning that consists of dates, strawberries, blueberries, blackberries, ice, a small amount of soy milk, and raw kale. It's awesome and they absolutely love it!

TJ1979 · March 2014

@ruthie04 I don't have any specific recipes, I make them up as I go. I have a nutri bullet so smoothies are super simple, and I can usually make a large enough one for both E and I to split in one bullet.

One of my faves is a banana, 2 tbsp almond butter, 2-3 dates (depending on size, they add all the sweetness, yum!) and a touch of cocoa powder if I'm feeling naughty. Then I add ice and almond milk and blend it up. If we need an extra calorie boost, you can add some avocado to that and you will never notice it. But you do have to add more liquid because it really thickens it up.

For me, I make one every day with spinach and strawberry for the iron, then add whatever fruit I have on hand... this week it's mango, and just a drizzle of honey for sweetness. I just use water in this smoothie because I certainly don't need the extra calories.

Another really good one is strawberry, pineapple, shredded unsweetened coconut, and a mint leaf or two. I haven't tried that with E, I don't know if she would like the mint, but the coconut adds good fat and calories.

pb_bride · March 2014

@TJ1979, good for you for not caving in. Hope Miss E does better with her meals soon. I feel like the toddlers are at this stage that if you do something even just once to cater to them, they expect it to be the NORM instead of just a one-time deal. At least M is that way. I have gotten lazy with his snacks and was giving him a smoothie and a digestive biscuit (I call it "cookie") every day. Now he expects to have the cookie every day at snack and I had to be firm with him and offered him something else (eg, pita chips with hummus).

@Ruthie04, I make a smoothie for M every day for snack. I don't have a recipe either but basically it is just fresh fruits (about 1/2 C), 1/3C WCM and 1/3C full fat plain yogurt. I have an immersion blender that comes with a beaker, so it's a breeze to make the smoothie and clean-up afterwards. M isn't picky and will drink it no matter - the fruit can be cantaloupe, melon, papaya, mango, pear, strawberry etc. You can use greek yogurt instead for more calories. Sometimes I make him an apple/pear or apple/melon smoothie and I add in some almond butter too.

P.S. M doesn't have weight issues. I first started making him a smoothie b/c he was refusing to eat yogurt. AFter 3 months of refusal, now he is eating yogurt again but I don't offer him yogurt daily (too big a mess for me to deal with it every day), so I still make him a smoothie daily.

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