Question for lawyers/landlords/tenant friends

watercolor5 · March 2014

I think DH and I have to take our last property manager to small claims court over our security deposit. They have forfeited our entire $900 security deposit- $75 for a broken refrigerator shelf, and $825 for carpet and linoleum (this is as much as they broke down the repair costs for us.) The fridge shelf was broken when we moved in, but we didn't notice it or put it on the initial inspection, so I realize we'll have to pay for it. I'm not sure how they're getting $75 though, since it shows up as being a $20-$25 part when we looked it up.

The carpet was quite worn when we moved in and the linoleum had been pretty badly torn, most likely from when the appliances were moved into the house for the first time- looks as if they pushed the fridge into the kitchen without any kind of coaster or cardboard under it. Linoleum was also torn in the laundry room, and we have pictures of the tears and they are listed on our initial inspection sheet.

We legitimately caused one stain on the carpet, from when a bottle of DD's trivisol+iron got spilled on it. We payed for professional carpet cleaning, but the iron stain didn't completely come out. We also caused legitimate damage to the linoleum in the kitchen because the dog started to scratch at a tear, so we patched it ourselves with peal and stick tile. I'm not disputing that we caused some damage, but it's my understanding that they need to charge us based on the age of the materials that they are replacing and the life expectancy of them. I'd be quite surprised if the carpet and linoleum are not original to the house, which is 10 years old. At the very least, they are more than 2 years old because that's how long we were in the house, and they were very obviously not new when we moved in.

We want to ask the property manager to further break down how the $900 is being spent- how much for linoleum/ how much for carpet. I think we'll also ask them the age of the materials- should we ask if the cost has been prorated, or not? It seems crazy to me that they'd charge us for all new flooring for the house due to one carpet stain (on carpet that they would have had to replace even if it hadn't been stained,) and a tile patch job that honestly looks better than the gouges that were in the linoleum before. Does it seem reasonable that we should fight this, or should we suck it up and take the loss?

Sorry it's so tl;dr... thanks, though!

MississippiCatfish · March 2014

No advice, but you might want to include landlords/property renters or something in your title, too. We've had really good luck with our renters, so we've never really had to haggle over anything like this. Good luck!

Holly_1007 · March 2014

No advice. I'm sorry you are going through that. Have you re read your agreement regarding the security deposit? I would start there.

watercolor5 · March 2014

We've done a bunch of research... the lease really doesn't cover damage much, but I know that GA law states that the landlord has to prorate according to age and condition at move-in, so if a carpet is expected to have a 10 year life, and it's 5 years old already, they'd only be able to charge for half the cost of the new one.

We aren't disputing that we owe them part of the deposit, it just feels like they're trying to take advantage of us and get everything they can out of us

DH said that if the judge deems their charges to be unreasonable that they'd have to give us 3x the cost- I don't even care about that, I just want to feel like we're being treated fairly, and in accordance with the law. I guess a lawyer consultation would be the next step... blarg.

watercolor5 · March 2014

cheeseandrice said:

I'm usually very anti-landlords when it comes to security deposits, because I think they can easily take advantage. That being said, I think you might be out of luck on this one. The shelf is annoying, but it doesn't sound totally unreasonable. They can probably charge the cost of the part plus an hour of labor (even though it obviously doesn't take an hour.)

As far as the flooring.... it's probably far more than $800 to replace all of the flooring. I don't know if the full deposit is reasonable, but I'm guessing it's not worth it to deal with court either. You're going to end up fighting over a couple hundred bucks realistically. Is it worth the hassle, do you think?

I would reach out to your landlord again and ask for a more itemized list and explain the pre-existing damage. But, if it were me, I wouldn't deal with court.

I don't think they can charge any labor since it's a user serviceable part, which is to say any owner is expected to take it off and put it back on while cleaning the fridge, so there isn't any install involved.

I'm sure all new flooring is more than 825 bucks, but I believe ten year old flooring is what we'd be replacing, so it's reasonable to me that there wasn't any life left in the carpet at all, and the linoleum maybe had another five years, except it was already torn so it would be less than that.

I guess I don't really know if I'm understanding prorating correctly or not. I'm obviously looking for people to agree with me, by my response and because I'm annoyed at the situation, but you could very likely be right that it's not worth the fight- a grand won't kill us, and I'm probably fighting on principle. I feel like they're asking for the full amount assuming we won't feel like fighting them. I don't know if we'd be fighting over a couple hundred bucks or five hundred bucks though, which makes a difference to me because I'm such a tight wad.

Thanks for answering!

Flamingemu · March 2014

I wouldn't take it to court because it may cost you more in the long run. That said, I would use it as a threat to get an itemized list from them if need be.

Was it an apartment complex or a house? In the past when we have left an apartment, we have disputed the charges based on pre-existing condition, age, and other issues we faced while living there and eventually gotten our deposits back.

Good luck.

watercolor5 · March 2014

@Flamingemu It was a house, managed by a realtor/property manager. I've never had a landlord be anything but pleased with the way we've left a property so it's all a bit of a shock to me. DH feels that we realistically owe them a couple hundred dollars because the flooring was so shoddy at move-in, and feels like we're fighting for about 700, so I don't think I can convince him to not at least get a lawyer consult at this point.

We did take pictures of everything before moving in and before moving out. I knew the carpet would have to be replaced after us before we ever set foot on it, and the linoleum looks so much better with our patch than it did with the deep scoring in it. I'm SO happy to be out of that place and not have to deal with property managers or crappy builders-grade mats anymore!

Unknown · March 2014

This content has been removed.

watercolor5 · March 2014

@mssm2012 Thanks, that's really helpful! Thanks @shiggybop too!

MeatballEsq · March 2014

I didn't read all of the responses, and I'm not sure about every state, but here in michigan you can't have a lawyer in small claims court anyway.

hmp1 · March 2014

I didn't read the responses, sorry if repeating. You don't need a lawyer for small claims court so I wouldn't waste my money on a lawyer. I wouldn't go straight to small claims court either though. I would threaten it as an option in a letter to the landlord asking for a itemized breakdown of the charges, the age of the flooring, and I would quote from your state law that they can only charge a prorated amount (or whatever it says). State that you are willing to pay for the small amount of wear your family caused during your lease but will file a claim in court if an agreement is not reached. Include the pictures you took before you moved in of the damage. Once you get their response, you can decide if you want to go any further.

Eastie156 · March 2014

We have a rental condo in another state and encountered a similar situation with our tenants. (This is obviously the other side of the story). They ended up getting a cat (even though the lease said they couldn't have pets) and the cat damaged the carpeting. They also decided to continually remove the kitty litter by flushing it down the toilet. We had to call Roto-rooter so many times because the toilet kept backing up. It was a huge expense that we incurred and only at the end discovered the real reason for the toilet issues. As for the carpet, we ended up having to replace a good amount of the carpeting and as a result, kept a lot of their deposit to charge them for it. They were really angry with us, but we were pretty pissed too.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that's it's possible that they really might have to replace a good amount of flooring for your apartment. If it's linoleum, it's probably off a roll, right? So they can't really patch it, can they?

watercolor5 · March 2014

Eastie156 said:

We have a rental condo in another state and encountered a similar situation with our tenants. (This is obviously the other side of the story). They ended up getting a cat (even though the lease said they couldn't have pets) and the cat damaged the carpeting. They also decided to continually remove the kitty litter by flushing it down the toilet. We had to call Roto-rooter so many times because the toilet kept backing up. It was a huge expense that we incurred and only at the end discovered the real reason for the toilet issues. As for the carpet, we ended up having to replace a good amount of the carpeting and as a result, kept a lot of their deposit to charge them for it. They were really angry with us, but we were pretty pissed too.
I guess all I'm trying to say is that's it's possible that they really might have to replace a good amount of flooring for your apartment. If it's linoleum, it's probably off a roll, right? So they can't really patch it, can they?

@Eastie156 Oh, they definitely have to replace the flooring. But it's ten years old, and was worn and stained and torn before we got there. We made one stain on the carpet, and tried to patch the tears they made in the linoleum. I think it is completely different from a landlord who is renting out a place with flooring that isn't 10 years old and damaged to start with!

Eastie156 · March 2014

watercolor5 said:

Eastie156 said:

We have a rental condo in another state and encountered a similar situation with our tenants. (This is obviously the other side of the story). They ended up getting a cat (even though the lease said they couldn't have pets) and the cat damaged the carpeting. They also decided to continually remove the kitty litter by flushing it down the toilet. We had to call Roto-rooter so many times because the toilet kept backing up. It was a huge expense that we incurred and only at the end discovered the real reason for the toilet issues. As for the carpet, we ended up having to replace a good amount of the carpeting and as a result, kept a lot of their deposit to charge them for it. They were really angry with us, but we were pretty pissed too.
I guess all I'm trying to say is that's it's possible that they really might have to replace a good amount of flooring for your apartment. If it's linoleum, it's probably off a roll, right? So they can't really patch it, can they?

@Eastie156 Oh, they definitely have to replace the flooring. But it's ten years old, and was worn and stained and torn before we got there. We made one stain on the carpet, and tried to patch the tears they made in the linoleum. I think it is completely different from a landlord who is renting out a place with flooring that isn't 10 years old and damaged to start with!

I didn't do a great job reading-sorry. That's different then. If the carpeting or flooring was that worn, they would've likely had to replace it anyway, so I wouldn't think you could be held for your full deposit on old worn carpeting. I'd try to get a further breakdown of the bill. If they refuse to refund any part of your deposit, the only thing that I can think of is small claims court- I have no idea how much that would cost?

Want a personalized experience?

Question for lawyers/landlords/tenant friends

Re: Question for lawyers/landlords/tenant friends

Choose Another Board

Search Boards