Gender Open Parenting! Weekly Discussion

firstcomeslove2013 · March 2014

Yay! First Gender Open Parenting Discussion!!!! I figure we will start off with just having everyone tell us what they think their views are on gender open parenting. What are the things you find easy or think will be easy? What are the challenges you face or think you'll face? Are there any topics you want to discuss in the future?

healz413 · March 2014

I will write a more thoughtful post later (am trying to get some dissertation work done now), but I saw this on Facebook and thought it was apropos and funny.

firstcomeslove2013 · March 2014

Okay, so for us, we always talked about raising our kids to be gender neutral. When @manada mentioned gender open we quickly realized that is a more appropriate term for what we are looking for.

I was raised with the general idea that I could do or be anything I wanted to do with a few limitations because "girls don't do those things". I grew up in the Girl Scouts which led me to feel a lot of empowerment as a kid. When I was growing up, I always thought I would marry a man, have kids, be a working mom, and raise my kids to the best of my abilities. When C came into the picture that vision of how my marriage/partner would look changed a little but the way I wanted to raise my kids stayed the same.

To me gender open parenting is so important to kids because there are already so many limitations placed on them by society. Allowing our kids to pick out their own clothing, choose their own toys, and decided their PGP (preferred gender pronoun) will be something that is really important to us. I will let C talk about childhood and how looking back at pictures of frilly pink outfits makes them cringe, and I know I don't want our kids to experience that. I want gender open parenting to help us allow our future kids to know that they don't ever have to be a princess (until they understand the intention behind it) or that if they are a boy that they aren't allow to cry or show emotion. I agree with @stringy813 in the fact that it DOES seep into every day life and so living with the intention of being a gender open parent, really causes me to feel more pointed in my actions.

I feel for us that in our home it will be very easy to do this. C considered himself as trans and so the queer integration in our home is natural. My PGP (preferred gender pronoun) is female but being a queer person I don't like some of the limitations that places on me and want to ensure that my kids know that male/female or otherwise there are less limitation than society places on them

The challenges that I worry about is taking some of those practices out into society. I am person and I make mistakes. I don't like being embarassed or in a difficult situation and I don't want my kids to be in a difficult situation either. Dressing girls in "boys" clothing is easier than dressing boys in "girls" clothing so I worry that I won't have the courage at first, when its my choice what they wear, interchange clothing if we have boys.

Thanks for participating and I look forward to hearing what others have to say!

redrockmama · March 2014

My views on gender open parenting: We want to raise our kids so that they can do and be anything they want to be. We are feminists and realize that we live in a society that severely limits girls and women so we have thought about this a lot more in terms of having a girl than a boy. I could go on and write a novel, but I'll keep it short. We want to raise our kids so that all options are options for them, regardless of their sex or gender and that they can wear, play, act, as themselves and not have to follow arbitrary stereotypes and roles.

Easy: Ourselves and our family life We both agree and have spent a great deal studying and discussing our beliefs, values and what kinds of parents we want to be.

Challenging: Everything outside of our control. We live in a pretty gendered world and have already had many disagreements with our family about our values. I find it ridiculous that everyone talks about how my nephew is "all boy" because he likes to ride his bike, play outside, likes trucks and motorcycles, and doesn't like to be clean (according to his mom). The kid is the most loving kid I have ever met, gives the best hugs (he even hugged a plant the other day) and likes to snuggles dolls and babies. They are silent when he does these things. I already mentioned it, but my mom has already said that she is going to go buy a bunch of gender specific things after baby is born. Like someone else mentioned I don't worry as much with the baby being a boy, but I'm sure there is a lot more there to explore.

Sorry so long, I have obviously spent too much time analyzing and worrying about this. I look forward to talking about all of this with this group and help it eases some of my anxieties.

StacyLH24 · March 2014

C and I plan to go the route of gender open parenting. Growing up, we were both considered tomboys. I never enjoyed really girly stuff and neither did she. No matter what sex child(ren) we have, I plan to encourage them to be who they are. I was raised being told that I could do whatever I wanted to do and I plan to do the same with our child(ren). I have always been very outspoken about the fact that just because I am female doesn't mean I can't do something or should be treated differently.

We would like to dress our child(ren) in neutral clothes as much as possible. That is just our preference. Once our child is able to dress themselves, we will let them choose/have input. We will also let them play with any kind of toys. Neither of us wants to push a gender stereotype on our kids.

That being said, I am afraid that we will lean towards boy clothing/toys whether we have a boy or girl. I find myself often thinking that if we have a girl, I want her to be tough/strong and be able to run with the boys, so to speak. Ultimately, I know we will love our child no matter what and will support them in however they want to express themselves.

KH826 · March 2014

So, my thoughts on this are complex and evolving. I am nervous to even comment, because I am not 100% sure I have fully landed where I will ultimately land on this issue, and I fear that many of you might disagree with me... with that being said, please know that what I say is thoughtful, honest, and that I respect each and every one of you and your differing opinions.

Now with my disclaimer out of the way, I struggle to find my own personal balance in my mind for what is the right amount of gender open parenting and what is too much. I whole heartedly agree that no matter the sex of the child he or she can and will achieve whatever they want to in this world, and I plan to encourage my daughter to shoot for the stars no matter what anyone thinks of her goals. I also will not discourage our children from activities, play, clothing or anything else that is not stereotypically alligned with their sex. If our daughter is a tom boy who loves football and race cars, great! If we have a son who wants to practice ballet, fantastic! When it comes to those types of things, when the child is old enough to have an opinion about what they want, I am totally on board and open to the full spectrum of possibilities regardless of what is commonly accepted by society.

The part that I struggle with is what to do BEFORE the child forms his or her own opinions. I don't want to force neutrality down his/her throat to the point where it is burdensome. I don't want to make life more challenging for our child by complicating their sense of identity before they have a chance to really develop ownership of that identity. For this reason, we will use gender specific pronouns, for starters. If my daughter comes to me when she is old enough to understand and articulate her feelings/orientation/identity and says "I don't feel like a she..." or something more sophisticated than that - HA, then I will welcome my child with open arms and we will explore what that means and my wife and I will not put any constraints on the identity that our child develops. Period. However, until that day comes, I plan to think of my daughter as my daughter. I will refer to her as a girl. I will use the pronoun she. She isn't going to be dressed exclusively in frilly pink ridiculousness (because my wife and I hate that anyway), but I will not apologize for putting her in a dress, or something with a little pink, or something with a bow... There will be a balance for sure, and several of the things we have purchased already are neutral or more on the masculine end of the spectrum, but I don't want to feel like we can't put her in anything remotely feminine as a way to prove a point. I think if we do that we are just pidgeon holing her in the other direction.

So, I guess that is where my still evolving opinion on this becomes more controversial (for this group, perhaps)... I want to be the type of parent that exposes my children to all options, all opportunities and is open and reactive to my children if/when they express to me feelings of "difference from societal norms"... we do live in a gendered world. There is no changing that. All we can really do as parents is be open and honest with our kids and do the best we can to provide them with love, support, truth and opportunity.

doodah1013 · March 2014

I am so excited for the discussions that are going to come out of this group!

I think we all want the best for our kids (duh!) and the decisions we make are bound to be informed by who we are and the narratives we have lived through.

That being said, I want to treat our child the exact same way whether it is a boy or girl... I will have no problem with dressing a bio girl in jeans and hoodies, and I may be more radical than most, but I wouldn't have a problem with putting a bio boy in flowers or dresses. If someone were to say to me in public that I had a beautiful daughter I would say thank you... And not correct them. I want my kids to understand that there is nothing wrong with being a boy or a girl.... And someone mistaking your gender is not an insult.

I hope this opens them up to being empowered to shape their own gender... And I will respect what they choose... No matter what. A girl who wants to wear dresses and pink... Great!!! A boy who exclusively wants to wear tractors... Great!!! A boy who likes tutus... Great! But I will want to give them the tools to understand that people might not understand why you are a boy in a tutu. So long as you are brave enough to withstand that... More power!

People have often said to me life would be easier if I would have just "fit in"... If I didn't grow facial hair, or leg hair... This sounds and awful lot like being gay is too hard, straight is much easier. But leg hair or not, I wasn't cut to fit the same mold as other people. Not being me, would just be another type of pain.

I have no problem with pink... I have a problem with "princess". I think a lot of the "princess" archetype has been damaging to the amazing power that women have. I know modern fairy tales are trying to reclaim this BUT a lot of the princess narrative emphasis physical beauty and neglects inner strength. I honestly don't care what my kids wear as long as they are happy, empowered, and embrace their own uniqueness...

Obviously this will come with tons of challenges.... Challenges I haven't even thought of! But I am dedicated to giving my kids the tools to choose who they are by giving them the chance to experience more than just their born sex.

doodah1013 · March 2014

@KH826‌ I am glad that you gave your position. My beliefs are ever evolving too! It truly is a moving target. I totally agree with you... Too specifically not do something because it would be too "normal" is just another set of rules... I think this is something we often say in the queer community. My friends and I use to joke that you had to have "dyke" cred... Like you had to follow all these ridiculous stereotypes in order to be a real "lesbian".
That's were this can get so complicated... Because we are so conscientious about these decisions that sometimes we can over complicate things. Or maybe they were already complicated and we are just laying closer attention!

oddduck1979 · March 2014

12+ years ago when I had my niece living with me I wanted to make sure that she would turn out to be who she was meant to be. I dressed her in girls and boys clothes, tried to get her interested in sports. She is 100% GIRLY, to my chagrin.

My nephew is 100% BOY. The easiest thing for boys is colors. My sister was so worried that he would be gay she refused to dress him in pink or anything that had the color pink in it. We still got him pink stuff because he liked it and with his complexion he looked super cute in it too.

Jazibel · March 2014

I'm excited about this new thread.

So Elizabeth believe in open gender parenting as we define it. We want our kids to grow up feeling like they can be whomever they want to be. That they can pursue any activity, career, family lifestyle, etc. If they want to identify as a particular gender, or a particular embodiment of gender then we will watch them unfold and support their evolving choice(s). I think life is fluid, and gender identity for me shifts and changes as I get older and understand what being a woman (how I identify) means to me.

Some of the ways we support this idea is to buy primarily gender neutral clothes. I personally don't like a lot of "brand identifiers" like sports teams, guns, aliens, etc. that appear on "boys" clothing (or vice versa girls clothing), so we tend to stick with colors we like, patterns, etc. I have found it easier to find neutral clothing in the boys section. That said I love femininity and am saddened by what our society often portrays as femininity (like mini skirts and cropped tees for little girls). If we had a daughter I'd happily dress her in feminine clothes and accessories on occasion so she could explore femininity as well as the more gender neutral go-to clothes we'd have. My son explores more masculine dress clothes too and its adorable. If at some point he wanted to wear a tutu or a dress I wouldn't hesitate. I will have lots of costume options in a dress up bin when he gets older.

We want our kids to be able to play with whatever toys they want. I really don't like that many toy sections in major box stores have a blue and pink section. We tend to stick to the middle ground, and since we're also pretty hippie we buy a lot of wooden and eco-friendly toys which also tend to be more gender neutral.

So those are some of our ideals. But in reality we're getting to know our toddler. Kaden loves anything that moves: cars, planes, trains, trucks. He loves balls and sports. When we go to the playground he will stand and stare at the older kids playing basketball. He adores other boys and follows them around the playground. He tends to want to play with other boys (his age or older) more than other little girls. We encourage all kinds of things, but really our parenting style is about remaining open to what he expresses interest in and helping him to understand and incorporate that into his budding life. Other people comment on his size, or looks and give stereotypical comments. "Oh he's going to be a football player isn't he?" or "He's going to break the hearts of so many girls." I usually smile, but I correct "football player" to soccer since EV and I don't want him to play football because of the high injury potential. (He can do that when he's 18 ;-) We've joking "betrothed him to both a little boy and a little girl in our friend group (gotta keep his options open). I love my kid, and he is teaching me about himself, and in some ways about gender. He is so different than I was as a little girl, even though my mom dressed me in primary colors, overalls and gave me a short hair cut, I longed to be a princess, play with dolls, etc. So far Kaden won't play with dolls no matter how we try. So in some ways we're learning to let go of how we wanted him to be "gender neutral" and let him show us who he is.

trisholio · March 2014

I have wanted to put in my two cents, but I haven't been able to quite get my thoughts organized on the matter. This is my opinion, hopefully it makes sense instead of just rambling. I am a girly girl, I have always been and probably will always be. I grew up sneaking in my moms make up and begging my sister to play hair do with me. But at the same time I loved to play in mud, I didn't understand why the boys could run around outside with no shirt on, but I had to wear one, after about age 9. I grew up playing softball and my sister played soccer, but we were still very girly. I want to raise my daughter to be a strong woman (if she chooses to identify otherwise then I will also support her) as I was raised to be a strong woman. I am proud that I come from a long line of strong women, my mom, aunts and grandmother have all set examples on how to be wonderful, strong, independant women. I love pink, sometimes purple and all things girly and frilly. Our daughter is already developing a wardrobe full of very girly clothing and I am happy about this. My thoughts are that I get about two years to dress our child, after that they develop their own opinions and likes/dislikes and I will give up some control on their choice of wardrobe. I do not believe in the whole 'princess' mind set though. I will not raise my daughter that a man will save her or complete her and that life is all about a happy ending. I am sure at some point she will want to play dress up and have princess outfits and I do not have a problem with that, but she will also wear bib overalls and tennis shoes on many occasions. As she grows up I want to expose her to 'girl' toys and 'boy' toys, sports and also teach her how to cook. I hope she plays soccer like my wife did, or softball like me. But that will be up to her.

One of the many things I love about this board is our openness and also diverse opinions. I hope to continue to learn about this issues from all of you wonderful people and also doing research on my own. Thank you so much for sharing so much already :-)

firstcomeslove2013 · March 2014

I am so happy that so many people are sharing their opinions on this subject! As the weeks go on, we will hopefully take a more in-depth look at what gender open parenting means.

I am so happy to hear that so many people want to raise their children with the mindset that they can choose. This is a tough mindset. It can be hard to not want to integrate your own opinions into their clothing or toy choices. Gender Open Parenting is so much more than this and I look forward to discussing more aspects of this with the group.

healz413 · March 2014

I'm committed to gender open parenting for several reasons.

The simplest and most straightforward is that one or more of our kids might be or identify with a gender, sex, or gendered identity that is different from the sex they're assigned at birth--either as a trans person or as a gender queer person. I want to great a home and family environment that supports them.

But that is only one component of my commitment to gender open parenting. I also think that everyone is limited by the gendered expectations our society has and by the idea that the most important distinction between people (the thing that divides the whole world in half) is whether they are man or woman, male or female.

I don't want my children to believe that the most important thing about them is whether they're a boy or a girl. It is one of the reasons that I'm so interested in gender neutral names. I recognize that we live in a world that divides people into boys and girls and that they will most likely be socially positioned as one or the other (or will face a world that desperately seeks to categorize them). And I'm not saying that I expect my children to not identify as either boys or girls. I just don't want that to have to be the aspect of who they are that they think is the most important or most defining. I don't want them to grow up believing that they sex they were assigned at birth speaks an ultimate truth about who they are as a person.

As @Manada mentioned previously, I have a tendency to change the phrase "boys and girls" or "girls and boys" to "kids" in books. I don't generally change individual characters (kids will be put into "boy" or "girl" boxes at various points by society, so I want them to recognize a variety of models for how girls and boys can be from these books), but when the book is talking about a whole group, I don't know what's gained by saying "boys and girls" instead of "kids." I just don't think it is important to reinforce the binary distinction between boys and girls.

I'm happy to have the opportunity of this discussion thread to discuss ideas, thoughts, strategies, challenges, etc. with a group of folks who come from different ways of thinking about this and who have different ideas and plans but who all want what's best for their child/ren and know that ideas of what girls and boys "should" do is not the way to get there.

ATXmommas · March 2014

I've really wanted to respond to this thread, but I haven't had the chance to sit down and write a thoughtful response - hopefully this weekend. I did stumble across this article and thought it quite apropros to post here -

https://www.slate.com/articles/life/family/2014/03/grayson_bruce_was_bullied_for_his_my_little_pony_backpack_no_wonder_my_son.html?wpsrc=huffpo

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