NBR: any salary negotiating gurus here? I need advice

rainydayluck · March 2014

So I got a salary offer from a company I interviewed with and it is the same amount of money I currently make. I would be moving from the Midwest to Seattle (huge jump in living expenses). Using the cost of living calculators, I would need $14000 (approx) more to equal out (just salary). Here are the facts:
- They posted on a field specific professional site that the salary range was $10-30k (those aren't the real numbers but the range is the same, I'll work off these numbers).
- they offered 21k which is what I make now
- I want to ask for 38k in order to allow myself to come down to 35k if needed
- I would be taking a cut in work lifestyle since I would get less PTO, more travel with less reimbursement, worse insurance, hours not as good, no union, which I'm willing to do for the right salary to move to the city.
- they are a small company, less than 50 people, so I am not sure what they can afford.

How should I counter? I'm asking for a lot more than their initial offer, but not too much higher than the highest end they posted. Should I say anything about how they offered me the same $$ I make now? Should I say anything about, I need this much in order to break even with COL increases?

Any advice is super appreciated. TIA!

BeesKnees181 · March 2014

I think that all the points you have mentioned are valid and worth discussing while negotiating your salary. They have to understand that taking a lateral position on the other side of the country has no draw. The fact that you experinece doing this job already should be mentioned. Do not sell yourself short or feel bad for asking for more money. The worst they could say is "no". As women we often don't sell ourselves and ask for the money we deserve. The change in benefits is concerning to me. If the benefits they offer are much less than what you have now, you have to take that into consideration. For example, I am not pulling in big bucks, by any means, but my position comes with excellent benefits. And those benefits easily add an additional $5000 in pocket to me/year. Think about the added costs of healthcare, etc. and figure that in accordingly to your estimate on what you think you should be making/ask for in your salary negotiation. Be strong. If they are worth working for, they will make this happen for you. Good luck!

BeesKnees181 · March 2014

P.S. I do not claim to be a guru...just ideas that have worked for me in the past...

awc1986 · March 2014

First of all, congrats on the job!

My DH is in exactly the same situation (see my finger & toes crossed thread). He's been offered a job, but the change in travel means he'll be bringing in less each month.

The main thing is, they're offering you money so they want you. The ball is definitely in your court. I would explain your reasons to them and see if they're willing to offer more. I think if they're offering $21k then $38 would probably be waaaaay out of their range. You may come out with something like $25k if you play your cards right. Remember that your living expenses are not their problem and they have a budget to stick to. If you can justify why you're worth more money to them, they're more likely to give you something.

Good luck!

awc1986 · March 2014

kitchencolors said:

What's the minimum you'd be willing to take and still want the job? I mean would you take it for $21k?

I sort of disagree with @awc1986 about whether or not COL is something they should care about. The reality is that most coast jobs/city jobs DO pay a bit of a premium. It's rare that it's enough to actually compensate for the difference in COL (from what I've seen), but often it at least goes part way. I think it's a perfectly fair thing to mention.

What about relocation expenses? Is that something you could discuss with them?

I think it's fair to expect them to take this into account. Here we have what we call "London weighting". Basically if you work in or close to the City, then your salary will reflect the higher cost of living and travel. I once transferred from the North of England to London and my salary automatically went up by £400 a year to compensate. I think it's totally fair for OP to ask for more because of this. However, many companies will expect you to have done the calculations before applying for the job.

With the job I'm in at the moment, they offered me less than the advertised rate. I went back with a counter offer and said that the travel would be more and they basically said that was my problem because I'd applied for the job. They did up it a bit because I had them on the "not the advertised rate " thing, but I got their point.

pandadair · March 2014

kitchencolors said:

What's the minimum you'd be willing to take and still want the job? I mean would you take it for $21k?

I sort of disagree with @awc1986 about whether or not COL is something they should care about. The reality is that most coast jobs/city jobs DO pay a bit of a premium. It's rare that it's enough to actually compensate for the difference in COL (from what I've seen), but often it at least goes part way. I think it's a perfectly fair thing to mention.

What about relocation expenses? Is that something you could discuss with them?

I agree with kitchen. If they're trying to hire you away from your current job, then your current pay + benefits package and the change in COL are of concern to them. I am by no means a salary negotiating guru (I wish), but I think it really boils down to how much you want this job. It's a lot easier to push for exactly what you want if you have no qualms about walking away if you don't get it. If that's the case, I would just lay it all out on the table. If you really want this job and are negotiable, I don't know that I'd go in a lot higher than their top range. Could you request the very top of the salary range and then negotiate more on things like PTO, moving expenses, etc.?

awc1986 · March 2014

Help with relocation/moving expenses could be a really good tool. If they really want you then this could be a great help for you.

rainydayluck · March 2014

Thanks for all the input, I really, really appreciate it. We don't need this job or move. We have a nice set up where we are now, we just would be moving because we like the city/area and it would potentially open up more (future) opportunities for DH. I think the least I would take would be 30k and that's only if DH gets a really amazing offer with moving expenses, which I doubt would happen.
ETA: he is interviewing next Thursday within his company.

Other things we have to consider (which jobs don't care about, but really make a difference in how much money we could swing): current daycare is giving us a huge discount on DD once the new baby starts. If we move, we wouldn't have that relationship and therefore sweet daycare deal and that would jump in costs. The housing market here is not so good, so we could be sitting on our house for a little bit until it sells and paying double our mortgage for rent in Seattle.

Again, we are willing to take these lateral moves with a slight drop in perks to get to that area if the salaries are comparable (with COL accounted for), so we are in good positions for negotiating since we don't need to move and will walk away.

chknma · March 2014

I am not skilled in this area by any means, but agree that they may be limited at the top of their budget. I would try to get where you need to salary wise, but really work to negotiate with benefits or a sign-on bonus.

I applied for my current position knowing that their range was lower then my last job (leaving management), however there were many personal advantages (closer to home, less expensive insurance, flexibility, etc). I was able to negotiate a sign-on bonus (half received after completion of probation, the second half after 1 year). Although overall it isn't helpful in the long-run, it did help as DH and I adjust.

Is this move important to you and your DH? Is there a way to make the final salary work to get you into a city that you are interested in living and then you can put some time in now for the opportunity to grow financially in the future.

good luck and congrats on the offer!

jjtyler · March 2014

COL should absolutely be a consideration. You should definitely counter with a higher salary ask, and if 38K is what you would be comfortable countering with, than the worst they can say is no.

Definitely ask. Women are apparently notorious for not asking for anything when offered a job and an initial job offer is usually the lowest amount. I am personally terrible about it. But, I just hired someone who we took a huge leap in salary to get her on board.

You should thank them for the offer, tell them you are so excited about the opportunity, and then lay out everything you said in your initial post.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

rainydayluck · March 2014

So one more thing I need opinions on. I going to respond tonight so they can't get back until Monday at the earliest. I want to drag it out so we can see what my husband gets. I'd feel bad if they give me what I want and then my husband doesn't get a good enough offer to make the move worth it.

I have several follow up questions, not related to salary. Should I ask those questions without acknowledging salary yet? Should I ask those questions and throw in that I am disappointed with the salary offer in the same email? I was thinking, if I email about the questions I have, without bringing up salary, it should buy me at least 3 days of back and forth starting Monday. Then we can tackle salary which would buy me more time. Thoughts?

ETA: I just want to keep mentioning how much I appreciate the input and opinions. It's hard to find people to bounce ideas off of when you want to keep the offer on the down low.

jjtyler · March 2014

Don't drag it out. Nothing more frustrating than a potential employee dragging out the process. You are the candidate they want.

Don't say disappointed either. Thank them, reiterate excitement, but present the research and expectations that you have regarding salary and why. Make it clear and unemotional. Then see what they come back with. You can then say you need a day or so to think about it.

BeesKnees181 · March 2014

I agree and wouldn't use the tone of disappointment, either. I suggest, try going the route of what is financially doable for you and your family...how much you want the job because (give all the reasons that this position is exciting for you career-wise), but that in order to make it work, you would like to negotiate the original salary offer with them. I wholeheartedly agree on asking about a relocation allowance. They make all the difference when you are moving laterally. My last job offer came with all relocation expenses covered, and it was wonderful because my first year in the position was at the same salary but in an area with a much higher COL. This position came with yearly salary increases, however...so I had that perk to pull me in...oh, and that it is my dream job. Good luck. You will do great.

rainydayluck · March 2014

@jennish11, they didn't ask for a salary nor do they know what I make currently. When I finished the second interview, the owner said she would have the first person I spoke to put together an offer letter for me. I said thank you, I appreciate it and look forward to seeing if it will work.

We had previously discussed in the same interview, what would influence my decision and I said the salary has to work out with the increase in COL. So we beat around the bush a little before the offer came in. I'm wondering if they think I make much less since I work for the public school system.

Edited to break up text.

pandadair · March 2014

jennish11 said:

@rainydayluck said:

@jennish11, they didn't ask for a salary nor do they know what I make currently. When I finished the second interview, the owner said she would have the first person I spoke to put together an offer letter for me. I said thank you, I appreciate it and look forward to seeing if it will work. We had previously discussed in the same interview, what would influence my decision and I said the salary has to work out with the increase in COL. So we beat around the bush a little before the offer came in. I'm wondering if they think I make much less since I work for the public school system. Edited to break up text.

Don't tell them what you currently make - and if they ask change the subject.
Since you already told them it has to work for the COL, than you can easily go back to them and say that the current offer doesn't cover for the COL increase. Ask for slightly higher than what would cover the COL increase and go from there.

What industry is it?

If they ask (hopefully they wouldn't), just tell them that you have a non-disclosure agreement with your current employer and cannot discuss that type of information.

LUCKY22 · March 2014

I think COL is certainly something worth mentioning. My previous employer was quite large and had I taken a position in San Franscisco, my salary would have immediately went up to cover the increase of expenses. As others mentioned, don't express 'disappointment' and don't drag things out.

You're in a good position in that you don't have to settle. Keep things kosher as you don't want to burn a bridge. If it doesn't work out with their budget right now, things could change in the future and you want to remain a viable canidate.

rainydayluck · March 2014

jennish11 said:

@rainydayluck said:

@jennish11, they didn't ask for a salary nor do they know what I make currently. When I finished the second interview, the owner said she would have the first person I spoke to put together an offer letter for me. I said thank you, I appreciate it and look forward to seeing if it will work.

We had previously discussed in the same interview, what would influence my decision and I said the salary has to work out with the increase in COL. So we beat around the bush a little before the offer came in. I'm wondering if they think I make much less since I work for the public school system.

Edited to break up text.

Don't tell them what you currently make - and if they ask change the subject.
Since you already told them it has to work for the COL, than you can easily go back to them and say that the current offer doesn't cover for the COL increase. Ask for slightly higher than what would cover the COL increase and go from there.

What industry is it?

I'm a BCBA, behavior analyst.

bcnoelle · March 2014

I am an employer myself and I think that having someone countering a salary with almost double the inital offered salary would be a bit of an eye roll. If I were you I would write something thoughtful expressing your appreciation for the offer, your respect for the company, and your excitement over this possible relocation for your family. Can you decide on the lowest offer you are willing to accept prior to your husband knowing his job situation? I think you have to determine that number and not go too much over it (maybe 2-3k higher). You don't want to counter too high and make them unwilling to negotiate at all. I would ask about other questions if they are deal breakers or if they pertain to benefits, sick days, vacation time...all stuff that impact the bottom line of your salary. I would also re-assess how realistic this is for your family. Two kids in child care in a higher cost of living area is super expensive. If you're ok with breaking even or possibly losing money because you love your work, have a career where there is growth potential for future income, or if the benefits are worth it- then go for it. If not and you and your husband wind up with higher salaries in a higher cost of living, you might find yourself in a higher tax bracket anyway and none of this is worth it. I typically appreciate emails and things in writing over phone calls because there seems to be less confusion and it's something I can discuss with anyone else who is helping to make the decision. But a phone call to explain. along with an email could be appreciated. Wishing you luck on your potential new job and decision!

Want a personalized experience?

NBR: any salary negotiating gurus here? I need advice

Re: NBR: any salary negotiating gurus here? I need advice

Choose Another Board

Search Boards