UPDATED- Ugh. Bad news. Male Sperm Antibodies

Mommalawyer · March 2014

Please excuse the posting on 3 different boards, but that's where I belong & hopefully someone else is going through this too, or has.

We got our last & final test result today, husband has sperm antibodies. He had a vasectomy reversed about a year ago, before we got married, and this is the result. I guess this happens in vasectomy reversals or when the "jewels" are damaged. So, I'm devastated. According to our RE, at 37 I'm as fertile as a young woman, if not more. Is anyone going through this or has? Online prognosis seems grim. I want to cry.

rmpar29 · March 2014

I do not have any advice, just (((((HUGS))))))) I'm sorry that you are facing this!

Momarazzi007 · March 2014

I don't know about antibodies, I'll have to research it, but this sucks bc I get what it means. I just want to say I'm sorry and ((Hugs)) do you know what your next step is? I know younsaidvb grim prognosis, but any options?

KC1212 · March 2014

I'm not familiar with this DX

I'm so sorry (hugs)!

freakyfast · March 2014

KC1212 said:

I'm not familiar with this DX I'm so sorry (hugs)!

Ditto... Can you give us more insight? ((HUGS))

Momarazzi007 · March 2014

Ok, did some research, but seems like IVF w ICSI is option? We are severe MFI and that is how we got DD, if you have any questions, id be happy to answer what I know. I know not what you might have hoped or wanted- but still an option w good results! (Hope I'm not overstepping it)

Clagore · March 2014

I'm not familiar with this either, just wanted to say I'm sorry you got bad news.

Mommalawyer · March 2014

No worries. If I was gonna be prissy about responses or info, I shouldn't be posting on a public website anyway!! Prior to this test, RE said there was a solution they could put in his sample to counteract. That's all they said. However, after reading stuff online, it seems that it's useless if the number is too high. We put in a call to the RE a bit ago & now we are just waiting. So, who knows. I dunno if more testing needs to be done or what. AF is due Monday & we were supposed to start our first medicated cycle & do our first iui. So I'm bummed. I will NOT do IVF. We mutually made that decision months ago. So, now we wait. I have a tendency to just automatically think of the "worst" so I'm hoping it's not the "worst." Now to start priming hubby for donor sperm.....

There are female sperm antibodies, which are found in cervical mucus. It basically kills them. I don't have that.

Male Antibodies attach to the sperm itself. If it's on the head, it can prevent the enzymes that break open the egg from working. If they are on the tail, it can make the sperm not be able to move as fast, as much, sometimes not at all. So they die. It can also cause "clumping" which I envision a rats nest of sperm not going anywhere. What we have, at this point is unclear. Or how bad it is. All I know is that he said when he got the vasectomy to begin with and when he got it reversed, no one said anything about this.

And the wait for the RE to return the phone call begins.

Jen071407 · March 2014

Hope you hear soon and it's a "best-case scenario" that will allow IUI!

Momarazzi007 · March 2014

Is the anti IVF a cost thing?

KC1212 · March 2014

Momarazzi007 said:
Is the anti IVF a cost thing?

Ditto. I really hope it's a cost thing.

Mommalawyer · March 2014

It's more of a cost thing and a little bit of I don't want to go through it thing.... I'm going to be 38 next month....

Momarazzi007 · March 2014

That's understandable but the way it came across was a little questionable and borderline offensive. A lot of women on here only option is IVF and for some of us - just to have first child was IVF or nothing. 38 isn't that old!!!

freakyfast · March 2014

Momarazzi007 said:

That's understandable but the way it came across was a little questionable and borderline offensive. A lot of women on here only option is IVF and for some of us - just to have first child was IVF or nothing. 38 isn't that old!!!

Yeah I am about to be 38. :-S

Mommalawyer · March 2014

Oh shit. I totally didn't mean for it to be offensive, at all. To elaborate, yes, cost is a major thing. Major. My best friend went through it, TWICE. And watching her go through it was hard. I think it takes an incredibly strong person to go through IVF and I just don't think I'm mentally equipped to do it. Plus I have had countless women tell me their experiences with IVF and I just don't think I'm emotionally equipped to go through that door. If that makes sense. However, I know a lot of people who ARE strong enough to go through it and a admire them & their strength.

I guess I think 38 is old because everyone who knows we are trying always seems to say, "Wow, 38 is pretty old to have a kid. You'll be in your 50s before they graduate HS." Um. Thanks.

KC1212 · March 2014

@Mommalawyer‌ that makes sense. I agree that it is emotionally, physically, and financially taxing.

Your apology seems sincere and your explanation makes sense. Please just be mindful of the ladies on here with the only option of IVF.

We had one girl awhile back that was particularly hurtful because she was adamantly against all treatment cycles and ontop of that, wanted to cherry pick her birth month.

Anyway (hugs) hopefully your RE will make a nice plan for you.

Mommalawyer · March 2014

It's a personal & strictly personal choice for me. I 100% support anyone no matter what way they need to get pregnant. I think that everyone should be entitled to have a baby in their belly at some point in life, ESPECIALLY those who really want it. I think my view would change completely if 1) cost wasn't the issue and 2) I didn't have a full time stressful career.

Frankly, I think that anything that any of us are doing, whether it be TI with meds, IUI with or without meds, and IVF is very scary. I'm scared of the meds. I'm nervous for all the procedures. It's been anxiety ridden this far. It seems unfair that those of us who really want a child or another child have to go to such great lengths to make it happen.... There's countless threads lately where us struggling ladies have co-workers, relatives, friends who had "another accident" and are popping out their 3rd or 4th kid!! Totally not fair! We want babies. Give us babies dang
it!!!!

Hmmmm. That girl sounds interesting. Against all treatment cycles? Wrong board.... Cherry picking the month? Um. What? Palm to forehead.

KC1212 · March 2014

I completely and 100% agree. With my son we did 3 months of clomid and TI . Then we did 2 clomid/trigger IUIs (with only 3 million sperm) and those failed. My son was a surprise after coming to terms with a childless life.

This time I've been attempting a holistic approach but, my OB is also an RE- so I'm prepared for bigger guns if I need them.

I understand the frustration of a male factor DX and my husband and I were at one point preparing ourselves mentally for the idea of donor sperm.

Anyway- both my treatment cycles, natural cycles, and what I call "acupuncture cycles" (lol) have all been draining.

I often drink during my FW so that if I do get KU I can be one of those women that "got drunk and got pregnant"

Jodee37 · March 2014

I don't know anything about that dx but after reading your follow-up posts it sounds like there is a plan that may give you your baby. i understand IVF is not everyone's first choice, and it's crazy expensive. so i get that you don't want to immediately jump to that. i too am concerned about being able to "do" IVF, while working FT and getting my master's degree (well, that's the plan right now.) unfortunately it is the only choice for some of us (me included), I wish i had other options like some of the other gals on here.

as for 38 being old... no way dude. there was a woman in my hospital the other week who delivered twins at 44. you got this!

@KC1212 you just made me snarf my coke with the "got drunk and got pregnant" comment. LMFAO

Mommalawyer · March 2014

I'm down for the got drunk & got pregnant route!! Can I get drunk for an iui?!!!

I'm just finally at the point where I've lost any real sense of hopefulness & am just angry & frustrated. I'm also PMSing, which doesn't help. Meanwhile, my jackhole sister is pregnant with her 4th now to a new baby daddy. Neither of them work. They live with my retired grandparents. Her other 3 kids behave like a pack of wolves. I think that plays in to my frustration too.

This too shall pass. I'm just an OCD control freak who has always bend successful with the "just try harder" approach. Which doesn't apply in TTC.

Still waiting on return call from RE. Beer thirty it is!

Mommalawyer · March 2014

I suck at this updating electronic thing.

RE called. Yes, there are antibodies, but not enough to "worry." Ok. Good. While DH count and motility are low, we have enough to proceed with iui. Doc says he wants atleast 10 million, DH last 3 SAs were 12, 14, and 16 million. So ok. We are still "in this." Now maybe I can find something else to obsess about.

KC1212 · March 2014

@Mommalawyer your H's numbers are very similar to what my H's were. He had a count of 52 million but only 16 million live and of those- crappy morphology and motility. Our IUI post -wash numbers were only ~ 3 million of his best "swimmers". However, that was in 2008. I imagine his numbers have improved now. We have been TTC for a year in May but got back to back BFP's within 5 months (both losses). Anyway, don't lose faith. If you have 2 or 3 follies plus a good sample then you will have more "targets" to hit during your IUI. Are you doing clomid or Injects with your IUI?

Mommalawyer · March 2014

I'm sorry for your losses. That's so hard. What are you doing in TTC?

I'm still trying to understand all DH numbers. He's at 23 million per/ml. And he only has 30% progressive forward moving.... I'm guessing his sperm sample is more than 1 ml.... Cause that's the only way RE would get to the 12, 14, and 16. That's obviously pre wash, and I heard you lose some during the wash. I don't know if that's true or not.

REis putting me on follistim. He said it should last about 8-12 days. Then trigger. Then iui on day 10 or 12. Then some kind of insert thing. I can't remember what it was called. At my baseline on day 3 of my cycle I had 20 (10 on each side) follicles. So I think that might be a good sign from the female part of the process.

KC1212 · March 2014

@Mommalawyer Well, I understand anyone's skepticism but I have currently been taking a holistic route. I contribute our brief successes to weekly acupuncture and herbs. It is the only thing we've done differently this time around. I highly recommend it and it is something that can easily be combined with treatment cycles. If we move onto to treatment cycles again, I will still continue acupuncture.

Follitism is an injectible ( I think) and I imagine the "insert thing" is progesterone suppositories. I have heard that IUI with injects (which I think is what you're doing) has a better success rate than with Clomid. We were told success rate was roughly 12-15% per cycle and I believe that with injects it is closer to 20 %. There is girl I am friends with on PAIF who conceived on her second injectible IUI cycle (and she is also who sold me on acupuncture).

Mommalawyer · March 2014

I've thought about acupuncture, I've heard great things about it. But I just don't do so great with needles. Does it hurt? How often do you do it? How long are they in & how many needles are there? Sorry for the 20Qs..... But it's something I'm certainly interested in!

Yes, the follistim is an injectable. Which I wasn't overly thrilled about, but DH said he's be willing to do all of the shots for me, while I close my eyes & squeal like a baby.

And progesterone sounds right, I just couldn't remember the name!

KC1212 · March 2014

No, it doesn't hurt. It is relaxing as hell. I usually fall asleep. The needles are in there for the duration of the appointment ~45 mins. The number of needles depends. I've never counted. I usually have them in my feet, legs, abdomen, and forehead. The placement of the needles changes to correspond with the phases of the menstrual cycle - supporting each phase and regulating the cycle.

pettycrocker · March 2014

2nd Acupuncture! It's totally painless, and SO relaxing. That helped me so much through my first IVF, when my anxiety level was pretty much through the roof.

Jen071407 · March 2014

Chiming in on the follistim- those sub-q injections are easy peasy and you can't really feel a thing!

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UPDATED- Ugh. Bad news. Male Sperm Antibodies

Re: UPDATED- Ugh. Bad news. Male Sperm Antibodies

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