August 2014 Moms
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chase16chase16 member
edited March 2014 in August 2014 Moms
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    chase16chase16 member
    edited March 2014
    deleted.
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    I agree with PPs that writing the letter sounds like the right thing to do.  I understand wanting to give your superiors a heads up about the letter, but it sounds like it'll probably come back to bite you if you do that.  Honestly, if Congress could keep your identity anonymous, so that they know who wrote the letter but it's not discoverable or told to your supervisors, that would probably be best.

    It's commendable that you want to do the right thing, even when facing superiors and an environment like the military where orders are followed.  I think the world needs more people to stand up for what's right even if it doesn't directly help them.
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    Like PP said, I say write the letter because like you said right is right and wrong is wrong. I would strongly urge you to try to stay anonymous in case anything would come back on you as far as work.

    Good luck!
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    I would consider contacting the Army IG /DOD IG. If your creating an environment where things slide like this, then harassment / assault could occur in the future.
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    meggyskimeggyski member
    edited February 2014
    I respect your ability for wanting to wrong a wrong, and I think it's brave/ commendable of you to want to set the record straight.  Is your friend asking you to write a letter to attest to his character, or asking you to divulge what you witnessed about the two privates going free when there was a clear violation?  Or both?  I can see the injustice of your friend being wrongly accused while the three privates went free, but strictly speaking, these are two separate events and linking them together in one letter could be problematic, since they aren't really related.  While the lack of discipline for the privates'crime is a huge offense, and absolutely should be reported if you feel safe in doing so, the fact that it took place and didn't get punished doesn't really have any bearing on your friend's character, nor on his unfair firing (especially since it was the Bde unfairly firing your friend vs the Bn ignoring the bathroom incident). If you believe your friend was fired because he wanted to report the privates' offense, that's a completely different story, of course, and the two events are obviously connected. Based on how you've described it, though, it's almost as if there should be two letters/ reports- a letter to congress attesting to your friend's character, and a separate letter blowing the whistle on the bathroom incident.  Does your BDE leadership know about the bathroom incident?  Would it make sense to report it to them first, and is there a way you can do that and have your identity protected? 

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    chase16chase16 member
    edited March 2014
    Deleted.
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    chase16chase16 member
    edited March 2014
    Deleted.
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    I agree with pps, but would do so only if I could remain anonymous- but i'm kind of a chicken, too. Sometimes doing the right thing is hard. Good luck!

    This is partly why my brother left when his tour was up. He was tired of the double standards and unbalanced rule application. He couldn't stand how one day xyz was a huge offence, but the next someone else got a slap on the wrist.
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    happylady07happylady07 member
    edited February 2014
    chase16 said:



    Maybe I'm being skeptical/pessimistic, or didn't read your original post thoroughly enough, but are you really sure that he didn't do what he was accused of in the first place?  It just seems fishy to me that these higher-up people kept pushing for more investigations even after they turned up no evidence.  It can unfortunately be hard sometimes to find "evidence" that these sorts of things happened, and I guess I would just wonder if they knew something I didn't.  Just something to consider before you stick you neck out for him.




    I'm pretty certain. He was accused of touching the butt of a female private while the entire battery was on the drill pad doing push ups. CID thought that it was pretty unlikely that the whole battery would have been out there and no one saw anything. Also when I found out that he was losing his hat and badge, I confirmed the whole thing with the Bn executive officer, since I was so shocked.


    ---stuck in quote box on mobile----

    My husband recently finished a 3.5 year tour on the drill field (USMC), and I just find this whole post incredibly sad. His career was ruined for allegedly touching someone's ass? Despite being cleared of the charge? I believe it. Of everything you hear will be the hell that is surviving a tour on the drill field (coming from the spouses perspective at least) the biggest stress that we didn't expect on my husband was the fear that a completely ridiculous allegation from a pissed off recruit would ruin his career. Such crap. And so sad that these individuals that sacrifice so much for the good of the future of the military can lose it all over nothing.

    I think it's great you want to vouch for someone you know and trust, I hope it makes a difference for him. The only reason I would discuss any of it with your superiors is to see if anyone else feels the same way about his situation and could stand behind him as well, but that really should be support he himself should try to get rather than you.

    I agree with the other posters and would be wary of posting so many details on a public forum. I also don't think I would link the 2 seperate incidents together, while unfair when compared, they are not related, you should be vouching your support for him and not dragging any other distracting information in to muddy the water.

    Good luck to you both.
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    Another thought--consider first requesting, directly or through your friend, a telephone call with the appropriate constituent relations person in the congressman's office. Find out what they hope to learn from you, how they would handle your letter, etc. This interaction might help you better assess what next step you should take.
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    Integrity.  If the CoC isn't doing its job, then the situation needs to be rectified.

     

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    I agree with PPs -- see if you can submit your letter anonymously, but do submit the letter -- it is the right thing to do.

    That said, if you are unable to be anonymous, I would not give a "heads up" on the letter. You can't predict what will come of this, and if it fizzles out and nothing happens, then you've drawn unnecessary, potentially negative attention to yourself.

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    I agree with PPs on a couple points. First, I would not give a "heads up" if you choose to write the letter. I am assuming the BN CO is your superior. This could set you up for many more problems in the interim before this letter is considered and a possible investigation takes place.

    Second, like @meggyski, I am wary of you linking these two incidents. The discipline for one soldier is really unrelated to the discipline for another because they are different situations, the soldiers likely have different backgrounds, etc. It could be read as immature or unprofessional and weaken your argument to come at them with a mass of complaints.

    Lastly, I would really think hard before doing this. While your sense of morals and courage is admirable, these are not situations that directly involve you or that you even witnessed. There could be extenuating circumstances in one or both situations that you are unaware of. My husband is a commander, and I know things that go on in his office are usually not general knowledge to other soldiers. You are going to be putting your reputation and career on the line here, so I would err on the side of caution.
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    chase16chase16 member
    edited March 2014
    Thanks again for all your input, I will be deleting this post tomorrow, so if you all have any other advice or comments, feel free to PM me. Thanks again!!
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    I thought I would ask my husband if he had any military specific advice for a buddy on here, since he deals with soldiers' punishments all the time, so I read him your situation. Here is his advice: 

    I would not write a letter in this case.  There are some elements of his story that seem a bit sketchy to me.  For example, on what grounds did the BDE take his hat and badge?  Being hungover is not an offense in the UCMJ, so what was the exact wording of what I assume was an ART 15?  This can play a role in any non judicial punishment.  If BDE reopened the sexual harassment case and it still came back unfounded, what is the basis for any punishment?  BDE CDRs typically do not handle UCMJ; it is handled at the BN level unless there are ART 32 proceedings.  Furthermore, any punishment that is handed out, such as an ART 15, is appealable to the next higher level.  So from BDE, it would go to DIV.  Did your friend elect to appeal?  Any type of punishment has to go through a legal review, even something as small as a summarized ART 15.  So did your friend ever go to legal to see what his rights were or have them review his case?  These questions raise red flags to me and make me think that there is more to the story.

    I hope that helps! Good luck!
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