Church with a toddler. And some other stuff too.

chickenlittlefl · February 2014

My husband serves as the youth pastor of a VERY small church - including the choir/pastors, there are usually ~20 people in worship (mostly over 60 years old). They hired him in the hopes that it would revive their dying church. Their youngest child, except for my daughter (who is 19 months), is about 5 years old - he comes with his grandmother. When my husband takes the 5-13 year olds (3-4 kids) out for children's church, I'm left to try to manage a very mobile 19 month old in a tiny, cramped sanctuary with only 15 people.

It is IMPOSSIBLE for me to keep my daughter calm/quiet/non-disruptive during church. The sanctuary tiny, so there's no ability to 'hide in the back.' Having so few people in the room means there's no 'background noise' to cover her talking, etc - when she starts talking/fussing, it's a major distraction for others. The aisles between pews are incredibly narrow, so I can't put down a blanket for her to sit on the floor - it's a constant fight to keep her in the pew or on my lap. There's no nursery, so typically I bring her in with me for the service and we make it about 10-20 minutes before going to spend the rest of the hour in the 'cry room.' The cry room does have a couple of toys (and we bring more from home), but it's not a very kid-friendly/toddler-proof environment.... it doubles as a meeting room and my husband's office. Lots of stuff to get into - trash cans, uncovered plugs, sharp pointy furniture, etc. There is a monitor in there so I can hear the service, but I can't really pay attention to it because I'm focused on trying to keep LO out of trouble. The church has VERY limited finances, so upgrading the room is out of the question.... and I can't see asking them to set up a nursery volunteer schedule when it's really just my kid. Also (this sounds terrible), I have doubts about the ability of elderly women to care for a toddler in such a risky environment full of sharp corners, etc.

We've survived for the last few months, but Sundays are starting to become really unpleasant for LO & me. We don't ride with DH (because he has to pick up a couple of teens whose parents don't attend and we can't all fit in one vehicle)... so I basically load LO in the car and drive 20 minutes, just to sit in church for 10-20 minutes, then sit in an inhospitable room for 40 minutes (forgot to mention that it's typically 80-85 degrees in there!!), just to say bye to everyone and drive 20 minutes home. UGH. And yes, we both realize that DH should have done a lot more research on this church before taking the job.... the hiring committee was not very honest/realistic about the job, and he was too naive as a new seminary grad to really ask the right questions and dig deeper. Lesson learned, but even though he was deceived he still feels obligated to see if he can stick it out for a year and help rescue this dying church. So, he'll be there for at least another 8-9 months and we need to find a way to make it through that time period that doesn't involve me dreading every single Sunday morning.

My husband has suggested that LO and I go back to one of the churches that we previously attended, both of which have large nurseries where she could play with kids (she isn't in daycare/preschool since DH only works 5-10 hrs/wk, so that opportunity for socialization is appealing) and services that I enjoyed. That just feels so 'wrong,' though. Won't it look terrible for the children & youth pastor's wife to leave due to lack of opportunities for kids?? Shouldn't I be somehow trying to fix the problem? (Though I don't know how.)

Hoping someone else will have a fresh idea that I'm not thinking of. Ideas on how to entertain LO, the appropriateness of going to a different church, whatever. I don't really have anyone unbiased that I can discuss this with in real life, and there's no way to throw it out to Facebook without it getting back to the current church. So fire away

sunnyday016 · February 2014

That's a tough one. I think if I were you, I would go to another church for a few Sundays per month and put in an appearance at your DH's church once per month. If anyone wonders & asks, you can be honest and say that it's very difficult being there with your DD being so young, but maybe in a few years when she's older and more able to participate you can come more regularly.

jbatch · February 2014

I know you said you can't hide in the back but could you just sit on the floor in the back and let her play? I wouldn't think people would mind a little noise..

chickenlittlefl · February 2014

Unfortunately, there is literally 1-2 feet of space between the last pew and the wall/doors

If our sanctuary were larger, I'd totally do this.... but we're talking a REALLY tiny sanctuary and so there's just no way to make it work.

Litgirl77 · February 2014

This may sound harsh, but if this church really wants to attract families, then the difficulties you are experiencing are something they need to address. It's going to be very difficult for families to attend their church if there is no nursery, and I'm guessing this is why there are no young children there in the first place. Maybe your husband can start to bring some of this up as he gets more comfortable there?

I think it's totally appropriate for you to just show up once a month to "put in an appearance." If anyone questions it, you or your husband can just say, "I/She'd love to be here but it's very challenging when there is no nursery program. In fact, we worry that other families who might visit might be challenged by this too. It's really hard for us to invite any of our friends with kids here, and that's really too bad."

Or if you feel called to do so, maybe you can step up and start running a "nursery" there (since you aren't really getting much out of the service anyway…) Then you could train a few people to help - we have some elderly women at our church who do a great job, so you never know. Of course, this would mean they need a safe space to put kids. Again, if they value families as a church they need to make this happen. I'd be honest with them and see how they respond. If they won't make the sacrifices they need to, then there's no chance that other families are going to be attracted to that church…and I'd start attending elsewhere while your husband finishes out his term there. You have to do what's right for your family - either this church will want to do what's right for yours and other families they hope will be part of their congregation, or they won't. But their response will tell you where their heart truly is. Even with limited finances, people can feel called to help out by donating gently used items, their time, etc. to make something happen.

chickenlittlefl · February 2014

Well, without going into a whole lot of detail and back story.... the church talks a big game about wanting to attract younger families, and did so during his interviews, but now that he's there its a different story. Their church is dying and they realize that (they're receiving a grant from the national denominational organization that is designed to help revitalize dying churches), but they want someone else to fix the problem. (In other words, they want DH to fix it.... on no more than 10 hrs per week at $12/hr. Sigh.) They want him to attract these young families with a nonexistent budget for youth programs and a congregation that declines any of his requests for volunteers/support/etc. Based on his meetings so far, the pastors (a husband/wife team) do all of the work in the church and the members do nothing more than show up on Sunday. (There are no activities outside of Sunday morning worship and an afterschool program that uses a room downstairs during the week.)

Unfortunately, it really does look like this church is a "lost cause," which is why DH is telling me to go elsewhere. He's only planning to serve his year and leave, so hopefully his next job will be somewhere that we can go as a family. We've already had one friend who expressed an interest in coming one Sunday, but DH had a heart to heart with her and told her that she needed to know what she was walking into and she decided to go elsewhere because she has a 2-year old. (DH feeling the need to finish out a year there even now that he sees that he has been deceived is an entirely separate issue and I really don't agree with him on that, but he feels obligated and so I'm trying to respect that.)

Babyproofing the room from the standpoint of outlet covers is no big deal, but they have huge decorative lamps, shelves of books, and DH's desk is in there which is piled high with paperwork. I can't move all of that stuff out because that room needs to still serve as a meeting room / office when needed. So I tell LO no, and redirect her, and all that.... and it works for the most part, but it's really not a setting that could function as a nursery to multiple kids even if we did have the manpower to staff it as such. So I could keep taking LO and maintain the status quo of trying to keep her entertained/corralled in the cry room, but I can't envision ever being able to offer a true 'nursery' in there.

There are other areas in the building that may be usable, but the church cannot afford to run heat to the whole building.... basically, the sanctuary and offices (2 thermostats) are heated on Sunday mornings and the downstairs afterschool room is heated on weekday afternoons (1 thermostats). The office is closed during the week in the winter and the senior pastor works from home because they can't afford to heat the building. Last week, the fellowship hall (where DH does children's church) was too cold for the kids, so he had to do children's church in the cry room (only room with heat on) and LO & I just had to leave and go home when she got fussy after 20 minutes. When I say limited funds, I mean REALLY limited funds. I only know of 1-2 people in that church who work.... everyone else is either retired or on disability (very rural, low-income area).

chickenlittlefl · February 2014

ClaryPax said:
DH can certainly go through his paperwork and get that organized right? Decorative lamps can be put up on his desk pushed back with the cord behind or on the floor. Bookcases, I would let her play with and put the books back when she is done unless she will pull heavy books down on herself and injure herself. It does sound like setting up a nursery is a no go since the church won't heat a room for it.

Yeah, like I said... not a huge issue for my LO (the lamps are on low tables, so I put some of them up at the start of the service and replace them after, others I direct her away from), but I can't imagine letting 2-4 toddlers play together in that room.

mamom0103 · February 2014

I don't know how much say your husband has given he's brand new but is it possible to keep the youths in the service and make it more of a family service? Our church (which is a large, very family friendly parish so a different situation completely), has a dedicated family service which is great. It sounds like your church seems interested in getting youths involved since they hired your husband so maybe that's an option? What about suggesting forming some family groups (new parents group etc) to get more families with young kids to attend? We always try and get there at least 15 minutes early for DS (13 months) to run around and explore. Then we bring a couple books and quiet toys for him to use in the pew (we never go to the crying room). Also some snacks. He does make a little noise but for the most part up he climbs around the pew and people watches. My DS is not one to sit quietly and play but he's used to being in church and staying in the pew and does surprising well. Honestly I would feel uncomfortable not going to my husbands church in your situation. I would just bring things to entertain your daughter and not worry about her making some noise during the service. But that's just my opinion, every church is different and I don't know if that's acceptable in yours.

chickenlittlefl · February 2014

Just sat down at my computer and realized I missed a few things while reading on my phone earlier.

- Initially I did try taking her to children's church with DH. The problem is that with such a small group of kids, DH has a hard time keeping them focused if LO is in there. Some days he only has 2 kids (who are siblings), other days he has up to 4 but one of those 4 is very easily distracted / poorly behaved. When I was in there with LO, the kids would all blatantly ignore DH and want to interact with LO.

- I really wish they had 2 services, because I DO think part of the problem is that 10:30-11:30 is right in the middle of LO's naptime. Unfortunately, with only 20 members, they can't have 2 services

And that also means they can't add a second 'family-friendly' service either (and their current service is not very family friendly.... it's very structured/traditional).

- Any ideas on how to let LO "climb around the pew" when it's just me? There have been a few times that DH hasn't had any kids show up, so he gets to stay with me for the service.... and those days have been better because we can kind of let her walk back and forth between the two of us. When it's just me, though, I can't figure out how to allow her any mobility without risking her making a run down the aisle (and I'm not kidding when I say these pews/aisles are RIDICULOUSLY narrow, so it takes me a while to get up and fight my way around the end of the pew - I may not be able to catch her if she bolts!!) And keeping her immobilized on the pew or my lap is just a recipe for a tantrum, because she's at that phase right now where she is ALWAYS running/climbing/etc.

- DH is putting his heart into his teens (2 siblings who come from a very bad home environment) and I think they're probably the main reason he won't leave (though he hasn't said this). As for the outreach to kids/families, though, I think he's willing to give it an effort but very skeptical that it will work due to lack of support from the congregation. (For example, Safe Church policies say that there always need to be at least 2 unrelated adults present for activities involving youth/teens. He is begging and pleading for volunteers to come to meetings, telling them that they can be involved if they're willing or just sit in the back of the room reading/knitting, and he's still only had 3 people offer to help - two who said they can do it "in a pinch, as long as it's not often" and one who can only come if DH will pick him up which requires a very lengthy drive.) I hate to sound like such a pessimist, but it is seriously an uphill battle. DH's family & I are all telling him to start looking for something else, but he just won't. So if that's not an option, I'm just trying to figure out what's best for me to be doing in the meantime while we're in this situation. He did say that if we ever do get young families to join, then maybe the situation would change such that I could return with LO and start a nursery program.... but I don't see how we can ever achieve that critical mass of young families when the situation is so inhospitable to them from their first visit. I sure wouldn't go back a second time.

Sigh. I really don't feel like there is a good solution. I'm just frustrated. Maybe you're right and I should be the one stepping up to start a nursery.... I guess I'll suggest that DH talk to the senior pastors and see if they're even willing to entertain that idea. They're putting all their energy into kids 5-18, but forgetting that many of those families may include younger siblings. (Then again, at the rate they're going, DH will just be driving around town picking up kids and their families may not even come to the church.)

jess9802 · February 2014

I take DS to church on occasion. We're Catholic and our church, like many (if not most) Catholic churches, does not have a nursery. Plenty of parents bring their babies, toddlers, and little kids to church. Whether they manage to sit through the entire Mass is another story!

I am not always consistent about taking DS to Mass, but when I do, I follow some of tips that I've seen other parents (often of four or five kids) talk about. Some bring special Mass bags with religious books and (soft, quiet) toys that LOs only get to look at Mass. Most try to resist the urge to bring snacks or drinks, except for very young babies. Many talk about timing quiet time during the week at the same hour as Mass, so that LO is already used to being quiet during that hour. Others are sure to sit right up front so that a curious toddler can actually see what is going on.

The one thing they all say very consistently, is that stepping out of the sanctuary is NOT an excuse for LO to run around and play. They'll sit outside or in the cry room, but LO must sit on their lap or stay in their arms. They reinforce this every week - going to Mass means behaving in a certain way. A toddler will not behave perfectly the entire time, and you may end up spending more time out of the sanctuary than in it some weeks, and that's okay.

I was sort of skeptical at this last one, but the last time I took DS to Mass, he made it all the way through the homily, and then just before the consecration he began to fuss loudly enough that I stepped out. We sat in a chair, I held him in my lap, and I just softly said, "When we're at church, we are quiet and we listen to the word of God. You can sit quietly on my lap here or you can sit quietly on my lap inside." He figured out pretty quickly that he wasn't going to get his way. I explained to him what was going on inside, he calmed down and we went back inside a few minutes later. He made it all the way through the rest of Mass with hardly a peep. I was thrilled!

One of the ladies at my church calls the process civilizing children for church, and I think it's a good description. Some weeks will be better than others. Best of luck to you, OP.

chickenlittlefl · February 2014

theresat858 said:

I would just stay home.

But it sounds like you have oddly high expectations for a baby proofed room. Honestly, all we did was put in outlet covers at home, and that's 100% of the baby proofing we did. Your kid isn't going to live in a padded room her whole life?

I guess I'm just spoiled from our last church, which had designated nursery rooms totally designed for kids. At the time, LO was in the infant room... which had foam mats on the floor, multiple bins of toys, and was basically laid out like an indoor play area with a couple of cribs. A room that feels like your grandma's living room (couches, low end tables with old crystal lamps, a desk shoved in the corner, and one lonely container of blocks) is just a very different environment. I guess my expectations are unreasonable.

Staying home would be my ideal (because it avoids the issue altogether), but DH would feel more comfortable telling them I'm going somewhere than telling them I'm home. And I'm okay with that, because I'd rather go somewhere (especially if I can actually, you know, worship while I'm there) than stay home.

Also, the other issue (which had come up earlier but I'd somehow completely forgotten about today) is that my job requires me to be on-call every other weekend. The chances of me actually having to go in to work to care for a patient on a Sunday are slim, but it's a possibility and therefore I really can't commit to "doing nursery." (When DH took the job, he made it very clear that I have a FT job and that I can't necessarily play the role of the typical 'preacher's wife.')

JENandJEH · February 2014

Honestly, if it is truly right in the middle of her naptime, I would just have DH tell them that when they ask that explain that since there isn't a second service for you and LO to attend that doesn't coincide with naptime, you all attend another service at a different church so that she can begin to learn church behavior.

jnnfrrose6 · February 2014

If the church isn't willing to set aside a safe place for you to step out with your LO when she gets disruptive (and your husbands office really doesn't count), then as far as I'm concerned, they get to deal with the consequences of a 19 month old being loud during the service. If it really becomes a problem, then they can do something about it, but if you are going to be supportive of you husband, then they need to be supportive of his family. Of course you can do your best to distract her during the service/bring quiet toys, etc..., but I don't feel you should have to step out if they haven't provided a safe and comfortable place for you to do it.

Stillharbor · February 2014

I totally understand what you're going through. MH and I went to a starter church when LO was born. But as she got older, her little noises weren't so cute. We finally decided to go somewhere else. Our excuse was that LO doesn't go to daycare/preK, so she needed the socialization she could get in a nursery. Where you are there is no room for creating a nursery unless you take over the cry room. Problem is, where does that leave your husband's office. Until the church is willing to put some effort into creating a space for children, then I don't think anyone should mind if you go somewhere else. (Hey and if they do, it's their problem). Making an appearance once a month would be a good thing.

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Church with a toddler. And some other stuff too.

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