ERF- Extended Rear Facing

Miles2Go · February 2014

I'm going to do it. I'm going to start the ERF - extended rear facing - post. I just want to share some good info with FTM's who may not have learned much about car seat safety before.

Read this:https://csftl.org/why-rear-facing-the-science-junkies-guide/ and read this: https://csftl.org/rear-facing-car-seat-myths-busted/

Then go join the Car Seats for the Littles page on fb. There is a mom on my newsfeed talking about turning her less than one year old and I'm overly emotional about it, so I'm taking it out on you. Congrats.

rainydayluck · February 2014

DD was rear facing until almost 2.5. We had her FF when we went on vacation and the person had a small car we all had to fit in. When we got home, she didn't want anything to do with RF, so we went ahead and turned her.

pistolpackinmomma · February 2014

Miles2Go said:

I'm going to do it. I'm going to start the ERF - extended rear facing - post. I just want to share some good info with FTM's who may not have learned much about car seat safety before.

Read this:https://csftl.org/why-rear-facing-the-science-junkies-guide/ and read this: https://csftl.org/rear-facing-car-seat-myths-busted/

Then go join the Car Seats for the Littles page on fb. There is a mom on my newsfeed talking about turning her less than one year old and I'm overly emotional about it, so I'm taking it out on you. Congrats.

I ran into a guy I graduated HS with and his wife in BRU. They were looking at car seats that are FF only for their 6 month old. He asked if he was too little and I told them yes and told them the stats on toddlers FF vs RF. I was happy to see them leave with a convertible seat.

cbrust · February 2014

I'll be RFing for as long as I can! I have DH totally on board with it, but my mom and MIL are side-eyeing me. They both are in the "turn them at 1 year" club and see nothing wrong with it. ERF is also not popular in the area they live in. Most of our friends with kids practice totally unsafe car seat safety and it REALLY grinds my gears but DH won't let me say anything. Just the other day a friend posted on instagram a picture of him and his 2.5yr daughter on a "donut run" with her buckled in the front middle seat of his truck (no car seat, booster, nothing). I was livid, but then again, not my kid!

Any advice on talking with my MIL and mom about ERF and getting them to get on board? I've sent them all the studies, videos, etc and they just "can't understand why it's safer." I want to be clear with them that if they drive with LO, she WILL be RF!

pistolpackinmomma · February 2014

Also, watch this video. It's in Swedish but the concept still applies here in he US.

https://youtu.be/fKIeExpDLDA

pistolpackinmomma · February 2014

@cbrust, have them watch that video. It changed my parents' minds real quick! Also, I'm assuming the links above give the stats but a toddler (due to the skeletal structure not being completely matured and the head being larger than the rest of the body) is 5 times more likely to die in a FF crash than RFing.

ETA: also, while the laws are typically 1 year AND 20 lbs, the AAP recommends as long as possible given the limits of your seat but a minimum of 2 years.

Hallil · February 2014

Yes!! DD is still RF at over 2.5 years and this next LO will ERF as well. Unfortunately the only people who have questioned me are people who just want to brag about they turned their LO's ages ago because, you know, it's such an important mile stone. /:) Congrats! You're kid is much more likely to be injured or killed in an accident now, too bad we just aren't there yet.

RachelCA29 · February 2014

My sister was so upset when her twins outgrew their infant seats so quickly! One of the boys was wearing 18 month clothes before 9 months! Which meant they had to get convertible car seats sooner then they planned - she was super worried about the rear-facing thing.

The problem with this was there were TWO car seats in that car, so the bigger, longer convertible seat couldn't just go in the middle to stay rear-facing for an extended amount of time.

Luckily, only one of the boys needed the convertible seat before they were actually a year old, so they were able to keep them both rear-facing (one in convertible, one still in the infant seat) for the full year and a bit longer. But once both of them needed the bigger car seats they HAD to face them forward to fit both twins in the same car. And they have an SUV, I was shocked how much 2 car seats fill up their backseat!

Since we're only having one (at a time) we'll be able to keep a convertible seat rear-facing for as long as he will tolerate it (obviously past the first year).

pistolpackinmomma · February 2014

RachelCA29 said:

My sister was so upset when her twins outgrew their infant seats so quickly! One of the boys was wearing 18 month clothes before 9 months! Which meant they had to get convertible car seats sooner then they planned - she was super worried about the rear-facing thing.

The problem with this was there were TWO car seats in that car, so the bigger, longer convertible seat couldn't just go in the middle to stay rear-facing for an extended amount of time.

Luckily, only one of the boys needed the convertible seat before they were actually a year old, so they were able to keep them both rear-facing (one in convertible, one still in the infant seat) for the full year and a bit longer. But once both of them needed the bigger car seats they HAD to face them forward to fit both twins in the same car. And they have an SUV, I was shocked how much 2 car seats fill up their backseat!

Since we're only having one (at a time) we'll be able to keep a convertible seat rear-facing for as long as he will tolerate it (obviously past the first year).

Check into the Diono radian. With the angle adjuster (the seat has been tested with it so it is safe) it will fit nicely in the back of an SUV. I drive a wrangler 4 door and DS is behind the passenger seat and I can still ride in the front. I'm 5'8. My mom is 5'11 and has no issues riding in the front seat either.

AnnieA75 · February 2014

Miles2Go. DD will be 2 one month from tomorrow and she's still RF. We plan to keep her that way for as long as we can. .

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but I'd love advice so here goes --
DD's recently started unbuckling her top plastic slide buckle (she definitely can't undo the bottom press/metal buckle, so at least there's that). Every time we realize she's done it, whoever is in the passenger seat will turn around and buckle her back in. Sometimes we can get her to re-buckle it herself. If we're alone or if she won't re-buckle, we stop the car and buckle it up. We tell her over and over that she must keep it buckled, etc. etc. I know it's just because she wants to turn around and see what's going on. I give her plenty of toys and books to occupy her so she won't do it, but she still does pretty often.

Anyone have suggestions? I was thinking about getting like velcro or something to wind around that top buckle after I've put her in and buckled her, but any other thoughts? She's really good in her car seat and this is the only issue that's cropped up. I don't want to turn her FF if there's something I can do about this for a while...

cbrust · February 2014

AnnieA75 said:

Miles2Go. DD will be 2 one month from tomorrow and she's still RF. We plan to keep her that way for as long as we can. .

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but I'd love advice so here goes --
DD's recently started unbuckling her top plastic slide buckle (she definitely can't undo the bottom press/metal buckle, so at least there's that). Every time we realize she's done it, whoever is in the passenger seat will turn around and buckle her back in. Sometimes we can get her to re-buckle it herself. If we're alone or if she won't re-buckle, we stop the car and buckle it up. We tell her over and over that she must keep it buckled, etc. etc. I know it's just because she wants to turn around and see what's going on. I give her plenty of toys and books to occupy her so she won't do it, but she still does pretty often.

Anyone have suggestions? I was thinking about getting like velcro or something to wind around that top buckle after I've put her in and buckled her, but any other thoughts? She's really good in her car seat and this is the only issue that's cropped up. I don't want to turn her FF if there's something I can do about this for a while...

I remember reading somewhere that another mom recommended putting LO in a button down shirt over the clip so that they can't get to it. Not sure about the safety of that, but it seemed like a good(ish) idea?

Miles2Go · February 2014

You can put her in a button down shirt and close the buttons over the chest clip. You can also put a rough piece of velcro on it, which should detract her from wanting to touch it. The kind that has adhesive on one side and velcro on the other. Don't use anything that interferes with the function of the clip. The chest clip is a pre-crash positioner and is designed to break open in the event of an accident.

bumpuser9353653 · February 2014

My SIL was in the camp of "FF at 1yr" as well, and her oldest is only 4.5! She was surprised that we wanted DD RF until 2.

It amazes me that people can blow off new studies and recommendations that deal with child safety, but can still be so quick to jump on the next "this food will give you cancer" bandwagon (or other similar fads). Research happens over time, and new research says your kid is exponentially safer RF until at least 2. Not sure why that is a hard concept for people to grasp/accept.

Anywho, we will most likely be turning DD1 to FF right at 2 because DD2 will be arriving a few weeks before that and with DH being tall, it's almost impossible to properly fit 2 RF seats in the back of either vehicle without one bumping up against the back of DH's seat. If we could keep her RF, we would, but would rather not try to jam it in and then negate the seat's ability to absorb the shock of a crash.

pistolpackinmomma · February 2014

@AnnieA75 do you have a mirror? DS watches me in his mirror. Or try putting a jacket on her backwards after you've buckled her in. And if you really can't get her to stop, the chest clip isn't technically needed and is designed to break away in a crash. It is mainly to make sure the straps are on her shoulders like they should be. Let me find the link about that.

pistolpackinmomma · February 2014

@AnnieA75 : https://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=204603

frugalwife · February 2014

We are still going strong at 2.5+ yrs and plan to stay RF until he hits the weight limit on his seat. He still has 10 or so pounds to go so we should be able to make it to 4. Once it warms up we plan to play with the seats to see how we want them arranged once LO gets here.

frasey · February 2014

DD just turned 2 and is still RF, no plans to FF her any time soon.

My parents have a hard time with car seat safety in general - installations, RFing, etc. It KILLS me bc my dad is a doctor and my mom is a nurse. Thankfully DD has only been in the car with them once or twice without us, but we installed the seat. I wouldn't trust them to do it on their own. Perhaps this is an option for anyone who was saying their parents 'don't get it'. What is there to get? This is how the car seat is, and this is how LO will ride in it.

bumpuser9353653 · February 2014

frasey said:
DD just turned 2 and is still RF, no plans to FF her any time soon.

My parents have a hard time with car seat safety in general - installations, RFing, etc. It KILLS me bc my dad is a doctor and my mom is a nurse. Thankfully DD has only been in the car with them once or twice without us, but we installed the seat. I wouldn't trust them to do it on their own. Perhaps this is an option for anyone who was saying their parents 'don't get it'. What is there to get? This is how the car seat is, and this is how LO will ride in it.

We struggle with this same issue with my FIL. He just "can't get it tight RF" in his full-size truck. Well, I'm 5'2" and pregnant and can do it, so what's the problem? DH about lost it on him the other day because of how horribly he "installed" the seat in their truck. He takes it out when he goes hunting and sloppily puts it back in afterward (so we always have to re-install). I'm talking tangled straps and jammed against the back of the driver's seat, etc.. Glad to know he cares so much about his grandchild's safety...

pistolpackinmomma · February 2014

aimee223 said:

Lots of good info, thanks

We stayed RF as long as possible. DS is 19 months and we just turned him around this weekend. Our seats only RF to 35 pounds and at our last pedi appointment he was 36, which is crazy huge for a 1 1/2 year old. We considered buying new seats with a higher RF weight limit, but we spent over $600 on the two Britax seats and just couldn't spend more.

What if you got one with a higher limit and used the britax seats for this LO when it's ready? Just a thought if you really want to RF longer.

MissLadyTay · February 2014

Yup. We rear-faced until my son was 2.5. You would not believe (well, maybe you would) how much bullshit I got about it from family and friends.

AnnieA75 · February 2014

@ cbrust and Miles2Go, thanks for the button down shirt suggestions. I hadn't thought of that.

@ pistolpackinmomma, thank you for the link! I honestly didn't realize the clip was designed to break away, so glad I know now. If the clip is designed to break away in a crash, wrapping velcro around it to keep DD from unlatching it is probably a bad idea! Good tip on the coat, I'll try that too.

Thanks for the tips!

frasey · February 2014

RugbyMamma said:

DD just turned 2 and is still RF, no plans to FF her any time soon.

My parents have a hard time with car seat safety in general - installations, RFing, etc. It KILLS me bc my dad is a doctor and my mom is a nurse. Thankfully DD has only been in the car with them once or twice without us, but we installed the seat. I wouldn't trust them to do it on their own. Perhaps this is an option for anyone who was saying their parents 'don't get it'. What is there to get? This is how the car seat is, and this is how LO will ride in it.
We struggle with this same issue with my FIL. He just "can't get it tight RF" in his full-size truck. Well, I'm 5'2" and pregnant and can do it, so what's the problem? DH about lost it on him the other day because of how horribly he "installed" the seat in their truck. He takes it out when he goes hunting and sloppily puts it back in afterward (so we always have to re-install). I'm talking tangled straps and jammed against the back of the driver's seat, etc.. Glad to know he cares so much about his grandchild's safety...

My parents are the same w my niece. They pick her up from school twice a week and my brother has lost it on them several times bc her seat is too loose. I guess they have the "well you survived just fine!" mentality that drives me insane. Ugh.

ShannonSky · February 2014

My oldest is 4yrs and about 30lbs, we just turned her this week

kalette · February 2014

DD will rear face until she out grows the limits on her seat. If she stays on track with my weight at her age she can rear face till she's five haha. But she'll out grow the height by then.

mrstengallonhat1 · February 2014

As a FTM, this is all really helpful information. I honestly had no idea!

chillypenguin · February 2014

I also recommend joining Car Seats for the Littles on Facebook, they are a great resource! I am hoping to keep DD rear-facing as long as possible, but she is currently in the 99+% for height and weight. We have a Chicco Nextfit so we are good on height for a while, but she is almost 31 pounds at 17 months old... Hoping she slows down soon!

Xath · February 2014

pistolpackinmomma said:

RachelCA29 said:

My sister was so upset when her twins outgrew their infant seats so quickly! One of the boys was wearing 18 month clothes before 9 months! Which meant they had to get convertible car seats sooner then they planned - she was super worried about the rear-facing thing.

The problem with this was there were TWO car seats in that car, so the bigger, longer convertible seat couldn't just go in the middle to stay rear-facing for an extended amount of time.

Luckily, only one of the boys needed the convertible seat before they were actually a year old, so they were able to keep them both rear-facing (one in convertible, one still in the infant seat) for the full year and a bit longer. But once both of them needed the bigger car seats they HAD to face them forward to fit both twins in the same car. And they have an SUV, I was shocked how much 2 car seats fill up their backseat!

Since we're only having one (at a time) we'll be able to keep a convertible seat rear-facing for as long as he will tolerate it (obviously past the first year).

Check into the Diono radian. With the angle adjuster (the seat has been tested with it so it is safe) it will fit nicely in the back of an SUV. I drive a wrangler 4 door and DS is behind the passenger seat and I can still ride in the front. I'm 5'8. My mom is 5'11 and has no issues riding in the front seat either.

This. DS1 is still RF in both of our cars, right now behind the passenger seat. We got the Radian because it had the highest RF height limit and DS1 has always been tall. We should be fine to continue RFing while DS2 is in the bucket, but when he goes into the Radian, DS1 will probably have to turn FF in my husband's car (he's 6'5). But with the angle adjuster on the Radian, I can still keep him comfortably RF behind the driver's seat in my car. (I'm 5'5).

cnbean · February 2014

@AnnieA75

My DS just started unbuckling his chest clip too! The best suggestion I could find to stop it was to take a toilet paper tube and clip it through that. Nothing else we tried worked, and he likes the way velcro feels.

jesstellina · February 2014

The other day, for the first time DD started saying something in the car about wanting to turn around. We kinda brushed it off and thankfully she let it go. I'm thrilled that she's 2 yrs & 7 months, about 30 lbs, and still RF! We have no plans to turn her around in the near future. I try not to make too big of a deal about it on facebook, because I'm pretty sure I sound like a broken record, but I can't believe how many people turn their kids FF even before age 1.

DH's cousin turned her kid at 9 months because "his legs were getting too long"...

ho11yday · February 2014

I wanted to RF until 4 but my MIL has her seat FF and DS has been super whiney ever since. DH blames it on how squished his legs are, but I try to tell him it is due to his mother and I rather have a kid with broken legs than a broken neck. We've compromised. When the LO gets here, we'll FF DS1 behind driver and infant carseat behind passenger. DS1 will be about 2.5 at the time.

AnnieA75 · February 2014

cnbean said:

@AnnieA75
My DS just started unbuckling his chest clip too! The best suggestion I could find to stop it was to take a toilet paper tube and clip it through that. Nothing else we tried worked, and he likes the way velcro feels.

@ cnbean, that's an interesting idea and I never would've thought of it! If the chest clip is designed to break open in a crash, then I'm thinking maybe the paper tube over top of it would not really hinder it from opening up, like using velcro would hinder it. After reading all the previous posts, I don't want to use velcro, so I'll definitely try this idea, the button up shirt, and/or backwards coat.

jfletcher3113 · February 2014

@miles2go Thank you for posting this. I hadn't even looked into this yet.

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