Creationism v Evolutionism

tinyhumantoe · February 2014

Or more accurately, Ken Ham vs Bill Nye (I think it's more fundamentalist creationism vs evolution).

Did anyone watch it?

It's long, and very good. Video is embedded on this site https://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/02/04/271383099/creationism-vs-evolution-the-debate-is-live-tonight

AKB090609 · February 2014

DH and I watched and all I have to say is that my love and admiration for Bill Nye only grows with time.

juliane2004 · February 2014

Wow. I saw that it was almost 3 hours long and I was like, no way. Then I started watching. I'm only 30 minutes in but I'm intrigued. I will be watching the rest.

redneckmomma25 · February 2014

I've seen been to a Ken Ham lecture in high school and have a few of his books. I've always really liked him. I have not watched the debate yet though

Flamingemu · February 2014

DH & I watched bits and pieces of it last night. I loved the debate.

Stasi · February 2014

I hated it. I hated that it created the impression that this issue is up for debate. I'm seriously disappointed that Bill Nye would even consider it.

AKB090609 · February 2014

Stasi said:

I hated it. I hated that it created the impression that this issue is up for debate. I'm seriously disappointed that Bill Nye would even consider it.

Really? I think it was extremely brave of a well respected scientist to engage in this conversation. While I don't like the perceived validity it may give to creationists, I think it does far more good than harm. I watched with a few of our neighbors and their teenage children (3 of whom attend a conservative Christian school that only teaches creationism). The teens had some great questions and were sparked to have a conversation that otherwise would not have happened for many years if at all.

I think that getting those kids to understand the side that has been hidden from them is going to do a huge service to them,

Stasi · February 2014

LoisLayn23 said:

Stasi said:

I hated it. I hated that it created the impression that this issue is up for debate. I'm seriously disappointed that Bill Nye would even consider it.
Why? Clearly there's a HUGE divide over what people believe.

Because there was clearly no valid scientific proof for most of what Ham was saying. It's absolutely ridiculous to think that the Earth is only 4,000 years old when we clearly know (despite what Ham was claiming) that it's older.

I'm not saying that there isn't a higher power that's related to our creation, or that there is no God. I'm not saying that evolution is completely figured out, or that we won't make discoveries in the future that disprove some of what we claim to be fact now. I"m just not buying Mr. Ham's particular blend of bullshit.

Stasi · February 2014

LoisLayn23 said:

Stasi said:

LoisLayn23 said:

Stasi said:

I hated it. I hated that it created the impression that this issue is up for debate. I'm seriously disappointed that Bill Nye would even consider it.
Why? Clearly there's a HUGE divide over what people believe.
Because there was clearly no valid scientific proof for most of what Ham was saying. It's absolutely ridiculous to think that the Earth is only 4,000 years old when we clearly know (despite what Ham was claiming) that it's older.

I'm not saying that there isn't a higher power that's related to our creation, or that there is no God. I'm not saying that evolution is completely figured out, or that we won't make discoveries in the future that disprove some of what we claim to be fact now. I"m just not buying Mr. Ham's particular blend of bullshit.
Ok, but literally millions of people disagree with you, which is why the discussions are important.

That's fine, I just wish it had come from someone who could actually give a more valid, lucid argument.

tinyhumantoe · February 2014

It was beneficial to me to hear the purported logic behind Ham's view. And to see how his smooth talking, artful wording, and diagrams came across as credible at times. It helps me understand people who believe these things better.

Stasi · February 2014

cheeseandrice said:

Stasi said:

LoisLayn23 said:

Stasi said:

I hated it. I hated that it created the impression that this issue is up for debate. I'm seriously disappointed that Bill Nye would even consider it.
Why? Clearly there's a HUGE divide over what people believe.

Because there was clearly no valid scientific proof for most of what Ham was saying. It's absolutely ridiculous to think that the Earth is only 4,000 years old when we clearly know (despite what Ham was claiming) that it's older.

I'm not saying that there isn't a higher power that's related to our creation, or that there is no God. I'm not saying that evolution is completely figured out, or that we won't make discoveries in the future that disprove some of what we claim to be fact now. I"m just not buying Mr. Ham's particular blend of bullshit.

Wow. You realize that "particular blend of bullshit' is the religion of MILLIONS of people, right? The fact that there is no scientific proof doesn't matter... because it's faith.

Look. I firmly believe in evolution. But I also think there is plenty of room for creationism to exist within the scientific realm. Regardless, close-minded, dismissive statements like yours do NOTHING to further the conversation.

This is where you and I agree, but Ham was clearly shutting the door on this statement. He doesn't believe this, and that's what makes my blood boil.

I'm a Christian too, but creationism doesn't define my religion, nor do I have to blindly accept it just because I'm a Christian, nor does any other free-thinking person.

Like I said before, I have no issue with the theory that there is a divine presence to our creation, but when someone comes on TV and literally gets away with saying statements that are flat out wrong, like "radio carbon dating is unreliable" with millions of people watching who may or may not have the educational background to know that it is in fact very, very reliable, it make my blood literally boil.

**but not literally make my blood boil, because that would kill me

MrsKipper · February 2014

cheeseandrice said:
If anyone is interested, I highly recommend the book The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief

I read that in a college course called Science, Religion, and the Search for Human Nature and it was fascinating. I really despise the mentality that science and religion have to be completely separate from each other.

Your last sentence is what I've been trying to figure how to say.

tinyhumantoe · February 2014

I have a few rando comments.

1. At first I thought it was eyerolly that Ham was saying - oh look at this scientist, here is his list of credentials with words like NASA and scientific foundation and professor. He agrees with me, and he's a SCIENTIST. Dude, that doesn't validate anything.

HOWEVER, now I think that was a beneficial part of his presentation, because when I taught HS, numerous times I had my straight A teacher's pets turn hostile, stop doing assignments, miss class, act out, etc.

The scientist examples were good for kids whose families so strongly believe in/teach something that it almost makes the child ill to hear the opposition - these kids can see that they can pursue their career in a science field. There is no reason they can't pursue any science career. Their foundational beliefs that were instilled in them by people they love and respect should not affect that.

AND, if they do someday begin to question certain things, it could be as an adult when they are working in the science field they were drawn to, instead of an outside field they took because they had such a repulsive struggle with hgh school biology.

tinyhumantoe · February 2014

2. I eventually learned to deal with teaching evolution in a better way through a good mentor - he was a "creationist and evolutionist." I spent a summer reading the top 5 pro-evolution books and 5 pro-creationism books, purposely picking some materialists, fundamentalists, middle roaders, etc. I don't know how anyone teaches evolution without doing that! When a kid asks a question, I know where they're going before they do, and I studied what accurate and fair responses would be so they could continue to learn without feeling isolated or attacked.

Most colleges don't make their biology education teachers take a class on evolution. :-/ And that they don't have to take a class on how to teach it? It was completely ignored, even at my alma mater which is a science school!

Anyway, I sent letters home and held an information session the week before teaching evolution. You would not believe how many parents showed up, INSANE, shock of my life, seriously. Parents afraid I'd teach their kid creationism or mention God, parents who were going to start homeschooling. It was jaw dropping.

The bottom line is that there are a lot of things that make up a person's worldview. It's like debate team - If you are going to argue against something, you should know everything there is to know about the other topic. That is why I think this debate was beneficial @stasi. It's also about learning about and maybe better understanding other humans, in a more general sense.

I never had a parent pull their kid out of my class after I started having a parent info session. They thought I was going to attack their children or tell them they had been taught lies. Nope. I was going to teach evolution, here's an outline of what I cover, it's required by state, you may come in and attend every class if you would like as long as you never disrupt and in fact I encouraged that. I had a pastor sit in my class every day. He wasn't happy, but at the end he wrote an article in the paper about how I did a fine job.

Then I spent the first week talking about the definition of evolution as a word, how it is different than theory, figuring out what someone is referring to when they use the word (i.e. evolution of a mole as a sign of melanoma), other things that are theories, different worldviews, etc. I also talked about CSI like Bill Nye (because that "you weren't there" debate is so common).

So evolution became my favorite subject to teach versus the bane of my existence. Another teacher just handed out worksheets for two weeks to meet the state requirement. What a shame to miss an opportunity to teach kids about how people have different views, and it's okay.

tinyhumantoe · February 2014

@cherrycrepe It reminded me of scam artists that can go into a store, buy a $10 accessory, and do a smooth scam on the cashier to walk out with $20 in change. Or the window company that almost got me with their smooth high pressure sales tactic.

He's a scam artist, in some respects. He manipulates things to confuse people, and they think it makes sense. That is what I really don't like about him.

Per his definitions of words, you cannot go to a crime scene that had no witnesses and deduce who committed the crime, even with DNA evidence.

Want a personalized experience?

Creationism v Evolutionism

Re: Creationism v Evolutionism

Choose Another Board

Search Boards