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Rant: people who are dumb about babies and birth and bodies

wtfisupwtfisup member
in June 2014 Moms
I just got back from brunch with a group where one young woman, a couple of years older than me, single, no kids, made the following comments: 
  • "Seeing a video of someone's birth is just weird. It's like watching people have sex." --> (Note: She wasn't talking about the idea of seeing someone you know give birth on video, which, yes, could be awkward if it's not in your comfort level. She was talking about the idea of any labor/birth ever being recorded.) 
  • "Even if you don't see someone's genitals, I wouldn't want to see a woman in labor. That's just gross."
  • "No one can do natural birth without screaming." (I was trying to explain that a lot of labor is pain, but not screaming pain, just you trying to cope with pain. She didn't believe me.
  • "Seeing a woman in pain is disgusting." 
This infuriated me for a variety of reasons, some of which may be more emotional than logical. But she's got a graduate degree, would consider herself intelligent, and the ideas she expressed were just offensive and pretty gynophobic. I know a lot of folks grow up with this ideology that bodies, especially women's bodies that aren't being sexy, are gross or sources of shame. But I don't care. I'm pretty dismissive of folks with advanced education clinging to upbringing as an umbrella to shield them from criticism, when they're essentially in the field of critical thinking. 

Just because something makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean it should. It means those are your issues. And before you speak on them, a little introspective thought might be worthwhile. 

It also just irked me that she clearly knowns nothing about labor or birth or this process women go through, but felt completely entitled to speak at length and say things to me like, "Oh, just wait and see. Come talk to me after you've done it." YES, BECAUSE YOU KNOW SO MUCH MORE. WITH YOUR ZERO MINUTES OF EVER RESEARCHING OR LEARNING ABOUT THIS.

Okay, rant over. Please feel free to join in with the ignorant, offensive crap you've heard. 



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Re: Rant: people who are dumb about babies and birth and bodies

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  • ddd2ddd2 member
    Some people gag at the sight of blood alone. I have watched a few videos and gound them gross, captivating and beautiful at the same time.

    And i think we all know by now that childbirth pain can not be explained to someone who has never experienced it. Of course im dramatic so i like to tell my friends its like being crushed from tge inside wjile your organs are deciding whether or not you should live! They can call me a liar when they go through it themselves lmao
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  • bebemacbebemac member
    BrightEyes112 said:

    bebemac said:

    So much negativity in her thoughts on birth: weird, gross, and disgusting. I'm excited - I think it's going to be an amazing thing.

    Speaking of being dumb about bodies, vagina =/= vulva. The vagina is not on the outside, folks!

    Wait we are supposed to be excited about the birth experience?
    Obviously I can't wait to meet LO but the process to get there scares me. (I am not like those people to call it gross or whatever though).
    Oh, gosh! I am scared, too - but I still think it's going to be amazing! Of course not everybody has to be excited, but I am!
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  • Luna CLuna C member
    I don't love how she phrased it, but honestly, I have no desire to watch a video of someone giving birth either. (I may do so soon for obvious reasons, but it's not something I'm going to find beautiful and mystical, I can tell you that right now.) 

    And it can be gross. Aside from the sweating and groaning and tension of whether everything is going to be OK, there's blood and poop and other assorted bodily fluids. I'm not fond of handling my own secretions, I certainly don't care to look at someone else's if I don't have to. I don't think it's fair to call someone "gynophobic" for having a lower tolerance of medical gore than someone else. Esp. since she hasn't had to think about this particular procedure so far.  
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  • wtfisupwtfisup member
    Luna C said:

    I don't love how she phrased it, but honestly, I have no desire to watch a video of someone giving birth either. (I may do so soon for obvious reasons, but it's not something I'm going to find beautiful and mystical, I can tell you that right now.) 


    And it can be gross. Aside from the sweating and groaning and tension of whether everything is going to be OK, there's blood and poop and other assorted bodily fluids. I'm not fond of handling my own secretions, I certainly don't care to look at someone else's if I don't have to. I don't think it's fair to call someone "gynophobic" for having a lower tolerance of medical gore than someone else. Esp. since she hasn't had to think about this particular procedure so far.  
    The majority of a birth video and sometimes all of them contain no gore, poop, etc. It's not 9 hours of vagina. It's a lot of a woman walking, coping, sitting.

    I call her gynophobic for being grossed out by women, period. That's kind of what it means.

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  • ncbellencbelle member
    Sad but definitely a function of the general ignorance around birth - what birth is really like - that's pretty widespread in our society.

    I'll feel your annoyance!! 


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  • Luna CLuna C member
    joules235 said:
    She has never had children, never done any research on the topic but feels the need to spout off strong uneducated opinions about birth and labor is enough to call her gynophobic.
    That's a lot of assumptions. Do we KNOW she has never researched it? Do we KNOW that she didn't see a video that was a close-up of a crowning?

    And actually, she didn't say anything "uneducated," unless you want to get nitpicky about the screaming during natural labor. She gave her opinion that the process is gross. I think most people would agree it's at least a little gross -- as are the vast majority of medical procedures. A tonsillectomy is gross. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. 

    I still think it's am awful lot of projection to call her gynophobic based on not wanting to see someone else give birth. 
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  • rmjones15rmjones15 member
    Yikes. I will say I was pretty scared of birth before I had my own, but I wouldn't say I was grossed out. Birth is natural. It's sad that people have and perpetuate these kinds of ideas that beautiful, natural things are "gross". That poor woman.
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  • lellyminelellymine member
    Maybe I'm giving her too much credit but I think I understand what she may have been meaning about watching someone give birth. I was in the delivery room when my SIL gave birth and it was the most spiritual experience I've ever had. It was just incredible seeing someone come into this world that two people made. It was a little uncomfortable though because it was so personal and sacred of a moment to witness, I felt a little like an intruder. Maybe that's what she meant?
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  • MississippiCatfishMississippiCatfish member
    I didn't watch many birth videos, but my own experience of giving birth was gross. If any non-medical, non-family bystander was watching, I wouldn't be offended if they said it was "gross." It was. But because it was the birth of MY son, it also has tremendous meaning that surpasses the grossness to my husband and myself.

    I don't think she was empathetic as a friend. I think she was being unsupportive of your desire for a natural birth and she should have kept her thoughts to herself at that time!
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  • wtfisupwtfisup member
    Luna C said:


    joules235 said:


    She has never had children, never done any research on the topic but feels the need to spout off strong uneducated opinions about birth and labor is enough to call her gynophobic.

    That's a lot of assumptions. Do we KNOW she has never researched it? Do we KNOW that she didn't see a video that was a close-up of a crowning?

    And actually, she didn't say anything "uneducated," unless you want to get nitpicky about the screaming during natural labor. She gave her opinion that the process is gross. I think most people would agree it's at least a little gross -- as are the vast majority of medical procedures. A tonsillectomy is gross. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. 

    I still think it's am awful lot of projection to call her gynophobic based on not wanting to see someone else give birth. 


    YES, WE KNOW. She said, "I don't want to know anything about that. Why would people look it up?" And then dr explained that her knowledge of birth comes from what her mom told her. Again, she's 30.

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  • wtfisupwtfisup member
    lellymine said:

    Maybe I'm giving her too much credit but I think I understand what she may have been meaning about watching someone give birth. I was in the delivery room when my SIL gave birth and it was the most spiritual experience I've ever had. It was just incredible seeing someone come into this world that two people made. It was a little uncomfortable though because it was so personal and sacred of a moment to witness, I felt a little like an intruder. Maybe that's what she meant?

    ----

    Keep in mind, she wasn't talking about watching someone you know. That would be deeply personal. She meant watching a documentary where a woman was in any stage if labor, like even early labor where she's in her home, was "gross." Because of the pain?

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  • b48kateb48kate member
    Gynophobia, such a great word.

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  • iris427iris427 member
    They sound like idiots.  I never screamed during my med-free birth.

    That said, labor and birth can get gross at times.  Amniotic fluid, blood, poop, vomit.  I saw plenty of all of that when I worked in L&D.  Personally I was never fazed by it, but I can see how some people would be.
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  • lellyminelellymine member
    wtfisup said:

    lellymine said:

    Maybe I'm giving her too much credit but I think I understand what she may have been meaning about watching someone give birth. I was in the delivery room when my SIL gave birth and it was the most spiritual experience I've ever had. It was just incredible seeing someone come into this world that two people made. It was a little uncomfortable though because it was so personal and sacred of a moment to witness, I felt a little like an intruder. Maybe that's what she meant?

    ----

    Keep in mind, she wasn't talking about watching someone you know. That would be deeply personal. She meant watching a documentary where a woman was in any stage if labor, like even early labor where she's in her home, was "gross." Because of the pain?
    Oh. Well that's sad then.
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  • quinnlucas6118quinnlucas6118 member
    edited January 2014

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  • wtfisupwtfisup member
    quinnlucas6118 said:

    I think this is a legitimate serious issue though, I teach Certified Nursing Assistant classes and you have to be at least 18 to take the class and I just got done giving the test with basic anatomy knowledge on it.  Women do not know that they have 2 ovaries or that the ovaries make eggs.  They also do not know where it implants at once fertilized and they do think the vagina is all one structure.  The women who do not the correct answers typically have children.  I don't understand how people get out of bed in the morning and participate in society.

    1) These women clearly lack my perverted motivation to learn all things related to sex. I could have drawn a textbook illustration at 18.

    2) I used to have students who were single mothers write essays advocating for abstinence-only sex ed, which blew my mind.

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  • temursgirltemursgirl member
    You need new brunch companions. That just really isn't an appropriate thing to say to your pregnant friend. Like PPs said, it lacks empathy and is rude. It's not necessary to share every thought out loud.
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  • wtfisupwtfisup member
    Temurlang1 said:

    You need new brunch companions. That just really isn't an appropriate thing to say to your pregnant friend. Like PPs said, it lacks empathy and is rude. It's not necessary to share every thought out loud.

    Well, at least she's not a good friend. More of a person in the crew. And on the upside, my husband was glad that I rebutted.

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  • wtfisupwtfisup member
    joules235 said:


    krptcmschfmkr128 said:

    Speaking of idiots. How about those who are pregnant, and post on FB sale sites about how they are due in a month and "OMG I HAVE NOTHING! SELL ME ALL YOUR AWESOME BABY STUFF DIRT CHEAP!


    This brought to you by the woman on my local children's resale site due in March begging for stuff for her son because she's waited 7 1/2 months and purchased nothing...

    Or the people who wait until they are 35 weeks and say OMG this baby has to come out soon. I haven't thought about this at all until now! OK Im going to start planning a home water birth now and I have no idea what to do. Guyssss helpssss!!!


    I had a coworker whose H was a doctor so she did nothing to learn about birth, breast feeding, or baby care b/c she just thought he was all-knowing. It went terribly.

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  • mrs_drc_rnmrs_drc_rn member
    Geez, ignorance is bliss these days. Why would you NOT research something if you have no idea about it? Furthermore, why would you spout off a bunch of BS about something you have not researched, nor have experience with? I have no experience with labor or pregnancy so I PICKED UP A BOOK! I'd feel pretty silly arguing with someone over any topic if I had not at least researched it first and gained just a little knowledge on the subject.
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  • wtfisupwtfisup member
    krptcmschfmkr128 said:
    wtfisup said:
    krptcmschfmkr128 said:
    Speaking of idiots. How about those who are pregnant, and post on FB sale sites about how they are due in a month and "OMG I HAVE NOTHING! SELL ME ALL YOUR AWESOME BABY STUFF DIRT CHEAP!


    This brought to you by the woman on my local children's resale site due in March begging for stuff for her son because she's waited 7 1/2 months and purchased nothing...
    Or the people who wait until they are 35 weeks and say OMG this baby has to come out soon. I haven't thought about this at all until now! OK Im going to start planning a home water birth now and I have no idea what to do. Guyssss helpssss!!!
    I had a coworker whose H was a doctor so she did nothing to learn about birth, breast feeding, or baby care b/c she just thought he was all-knowing. It went terribly.
    Oh jeeze. What kind of a doctor was he? I mean, if he'd been a general practitioner or family doctor or something, I could see hoping he'd have known something. But if dude was an orthopedic doctor or podiatrist or something. WTF?
    I actually don't know -- I think he's an ER doc. But my mind was blown. I just thought, "Medical knowledge doesn't = knowing how to soothe a baby, breastfeed, etc. And he's not going to be there 24/7." Parenting isn't JUST preventing illness. She also, despite being a smart person, had a registry full of only toys, clothes, and decorative things because she didn't know any of the practical needs. She acted really shocked that they had to buy so much other stuff after the shower, i.e. the actual stuff to take care of a baby.



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  • gregsgurl81304gregsgurl81304 member

    I don't feel that it was right for her to express what she thinks is an educated opinion to someone who is going to be giving birth, but I do feel that labor can get gross.

    At the same time I think she should keep her opinion to herself until she has either gone through labor or has experienced it with someone close to her.

    I would hope she wouldn't be focusing on the gross stuff, and be more focused on supporting that person, and encouraging them that they can do it, as well as be excited to experience new life. 

    Um Hello, you don't have to have your face down there. There are other places to stand where you can't see what is happening and still offer support and encouragement.

     

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  • ElTrain5ElTrain5 member
    Can we please add to this list the people that say "You NEVER KNOW what is going to happen and every "plan" you make will turn to shit anyways and everything will go wrong la-la-la-la-la" so they refuse to learn anything about labor and/or delivery. These are the same people who post about how "pissed" they are at their L&D nurse or doctor for doing something "totally unnecessary" for years after their births. Right. SMH

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  • hscogginshscoggins member
    Sounds like the friend should know her audience more. I'd be a little taken aback if my friend went on a tirade about how disgusting birth was knowing I was going to go through it soon.

    As someone who has witnessed births and complications that can occur with them, I concur that birth is gross. Fascinating, miraculous, and empowering... But gross ;)
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  • MrsCase1MrsCase1 member
    Well, I guess the good thing is that she is a "friend of a friend" and not someone you're going to have to cut out of your life for being an idiot, right? Ugh.
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