Morbid wwyd question

Junemom2013 · January 2014

I watch cnn most of the day (at work) and the last few days a story has caught my attention and Got me to wondering what I would want done in this situation.

A woman in Texas had some sort of blood clot or annurism (sp?) back in November and sadly is considered brain dead. She was 14 weeks pregnant at the time. Now the husband and family are sueing the hospital she's in because they want to pull life support and the hospital says they can't because she's pregnant. She is now 20 weeks.

I haven't seen much about what the husband thinks of the baby.

I know this is really morbid but if you were in that situation would you want to be kept on machines if the only reason was the baby?

cafecreme · January 2014

Yes. I think its selfish that they wouldn't want every chance for that baby to survive, even if it meant me possibly being in pain, or brain dead.

Anyone else who feels the same way?

Cricket81 · January 2014

I think if the baby had a good shot of making it, I would want them to do whatever was necessary at that point. It would really depend in the fetus's chances.
As a side note, I just think the human body is pretty amazing if it can sustain a pregnancy in that state.

phishgirl29 · January 2014

Yep. I would hope my husband would want to raise our child even if it means without me. I know my mother and sister would be fighting for that baby's life.

Maelara · January 2014

Yes. I would want to be kept on life support until the baby was ready to be born. I read this too and was wondering why the family would want to take her off while she is pregnant. Does her being brain dead and on an IV hurt the baby somehow?

ETA - my question makes no sense to me. When I was 17 weeks pregnant I was so sick I stopped eating. For 2 weeks. It all stemmed from my gallbladder and I was on an IV. The pedi said that the baby will break down parts of my body to get the nutrition it needs so the baby would be ok.

I just don't understand why the father would want this. I asked my DH and he said he would obviously make the right decision. It's his baby too.

lioness13 · January 2014

I would want the baby to survive if it was possible.

Now I want to ask my DH what he thinks but he hates when I ask him questions like this... He'll say "whatever you want me to do" and I'll say "but I'll be on life support so you have to decide" and he'll say "but you're not on life support now". *sigh...*

I heard a little about the story but don't know any details. I wonder why the family wouldn't want to give the baby a chance to survive. That makes me sad. There must be more to it.

Junemom2013 · January 2014

@maelara Idk I have been wondering that to. I don't really know if there are any issues for the baby

I asked my DH what he would do in that situation. If he knows there is no way to bring me back He said he knows I would want to do whatever needs to be done for the baby.

I wish I they had more details. the news story I hear is mostly about the life support argument and comparing it to the 13 year old girl whose family is fighting to keep ON life support.

chelsmcl · January 2014

Wow, I would want them to do anything they had to to make sure that baby survived.

BC&LM · January 2014

Abso-freaking-lutely. If there were even the remotest chance the baby could live, I would want the baby to have that chance.

LBeez13 · January 2014

lioness13 said:
I would want the baby to survive if it was possible.

Now I want to ask my DH what he thinks but he hates when I ask him questions like this... He'll say "whatever you want me to do" and I'll say "but I'll be on life support so you have to decide" and he'll say "but you're not on life support now". *sigh...*

I heard a little about the story but don't know any details. I wonder why the family wouldn't want to give the baby a chance to survive. That makes me sad. There must be more to it.

I also would want the baby to live if possible. Your husband sounds exactly like my husband. When he comes up to bed I will ask and probably get the exact response you typed above!

TheyCalledHerKate · January 2014

Well, given that the fetus was oxygen deprived for over an hour, the likelihood of a good outcome is not very optimistic. It's asinine that they are keeping this mom on life support against her and her family's wishes. When someone is brain dead they are considered dead.

Junemom2013 · January 2014

I was surprised my DH answered. He usually hates these questions. However i never really ask serious ones. usually I ask "if you could only save one and me and your mother are on a cliff who would you save?" lol then harass him for either response.

Junemom2013 · January 2014

I wonder though if and when they do the viability test will they deliver right away? And how the family will handle the baby....if this baby survives. Also when they get older and learn the story of his/her birth

LaBellaVida · January 2014

Uh, my husband better keep me alive to save our baby!! If there was no way I could live without machines, pull the plug after our baby was born.

ETA: I'll also ask my hubs when he gets home what he would do. I'm pretty sure he would keep me alive to save our baby.

kmkaull2 · January 2014

In this case, the woman is clinically brain dead. She is not on life support. The hospital misinterpreted this fact and that's why this is happening. Essentially, this is a corpse with absolutely no brain stem activity to stimulate organs. I know that's gruesome, but it I an important distinction.

The fetus was deprived oxygen for over an hour so it is unlikely to have any quality of life. I find this barbaric.

In another situation where it was a short term life support situation and the baby had a shot--then perhaps sustaining the mother is appropriate. But in my opinion, the husband is doing the most humane thing for both mom and baby.

Maelara · January 2014

I want to know, did she have a desire to be taken off of life support if declared brain dead, BEFORE she was pregnant? If she could answer this question now that she is pregnant, would she change her mind?

KellenHi21 · January 2014

Yes, I would want to be kept alive to bring my baby into the world... *IF* baby was/could be healthy, etc... Otherwise, no.

amberdt03 · January 2014

I've been debating posting this story since I first heard about it. The husband is a local Firefighter/paramedic and the wife is a paramedic also. Being that he found her in the middle of the night, they really don't know how long she was down before he found her. I'm willing to bet that this is going to have a sad outcome because the chance of the baby actually being viable is very slim. From a medical standpoint, a heartbeat doesn't automatically equal life. There are so many other factors that come in play.

With that being said, if we were in that situation, I'd want to stay on "life support" until the baby was able to be taken. But if there were any health effects(i.e. Brain damage) that were suffered by the baby afterwards, I wouldn't want my husband to have to care for a child in a vegetative state, especially when he'd have another child to take care of. So I would want a DNR drafted on the baby, because that is no way to live.

Not to start any debates, but why is it ok to have an abortion before 20 weeks, but not let a clinically dead pregnant patient be taken off life support before 20 weeks?

Edit:words are hard

RedCherry1109 · January 2014

I haven't read they story but when my mom had a c-section with my brother in 1982. She was put under and the breathing machine malfunctioned and she was in a coma for 8 days, they doctors told my family that when she came out of it she would be a vegetable for the rest of her life. Well she came out just fine and ended up having me and my sister. So you ever know, I know its a totally different situation but just thought I would put it out there.

If the baby has a chance, I don't see why the family would fight for the baby. My husband would know that I would give every chance to save the baby even if I was brain dead.

Monkeybutt80 · January 2014

I would leave it up to my husband to decide if he wants to raise a baby without me. I'd also understand if he decided he didn't want to. I'm not sure id be cut out for a single parent thing either.

glitterbush · January 2014

TheyCalledHerKate said:
Well, given that the fetus was oxygen deprived for over an hour, the likelihood of a good outcome is not very optimistic. It's asinine that they are keeping this mom on life support against her and her family's wishes. When someone is brain dead they are considered dead.

All of this. I think it's nuts they are going against the family's wishes.

amie444 · January 2014

This woman is not in a coma. She is dead on a breathing machine. She was without oxygen for over an hour. This is cruel and sick. If by some miracle this baby is fine and well that is awesome.
The problem is she did not have an advance directive. She and her husband spoke about it and he knows her wishes. But the state of Texas has a law that the decision to bring a child into the world is not a personal decision between a woman, husband and doctor. It is a state matter. And that is scary and sad.
With that being said, having an advance directive would not have even helped in Texas, because women do not have the right to make reproductive decisions.
This is basically a science experiment where the Anti abortion people are hoping for a good outcome. But it almost for sure sounds to me that this not going to end well and if the baby does live will be in state assistance for the rest of it life. With Medicare and Medicaid. It is a lose lose situation.

megaroo64 · January 2014

I guess that situation would be more about what my husband would do considering I would be the one in the hospital bed.

But, we also saw that story, and I know my husband would keep me alive for the sake of the baby. He thinks it is crazy that the "father" in the news is not doing the same. And selfishly, my H told me he would keep me alive because he wouldn't want to let me go.

RissNRuss · January 2014

I read this story and honestly, pull the plug. That sounds terrible and callous, but the mother was without oxygen for up to an hour, which means so was the baby. Both the woman and her husband are paramedics, and know about what dangers there are on IF the baby is able to come to term.
Also- and this is what really bothers me- women aren't INCUBATORS. It is a terrible loss for the family, absolutely. But they aren't killing the mother to kill the baby- they are following her end of life requests.
Also, if the State makes the decision, you are taking away a lot of rights- you are saying that a woman and her family cannot make decisions regarding pregnancy, and that's a really fine teeny tiny tightrope you're walking.

GraceInCA · January 2014

If I were the one in that situation, my wish is that my husband's wishes be followed to the letter. If that meant shutting down machines so the baby's heartbeat stopped, so be it. This is not the state's decision. It's pretty appalling that they're doing this. Not only to the husband, but to her parents too. This must be agonizing for them.

I don't think there will be a good outcome for the baby. I also wonder what the baby's life is even like in there, assuming it has any significant brain function following that prolonged episode of oxygen deprivation. Babies usually hear mom's voice, feel lots of motion, hear the gurgling of food digesting, etc. I wonder what effect her state has on that baby's development, even assuming the baby's health wasn't severely impaired when its mom died.

tiffletons518 · January 2014

RissNRuss said:
I read this story and honestly, pull the plug. That sounds terrible and callous, but the mother was without oxygen for up to an hour, which means so was the baby. Both the woman and her husband are paramedics, and know about what dangers there are on IF the baby is able to come to term.
Also- and this is what really bothers me- women aren't INCUBATORS. It is a terrible loss for the family, absolutely. But they aren't killing the mother to kill the baby- they are following her end of life requests.
Also, if the State makes the decision, you are taking away a lot of rights- you are saying that a woman and her family cannot make decisions regarding pregnancy, and that's a really fine teeny tiny tightrope you're walking.

Exactly this with the incubator. She is dead. It does sound heartless and awful to say it that way, but it's true. So, are they trying to regulate her hormones and other things that you would normally need to sustain a healthy pregnancy? Essentially experimenting and hoping they're right. Who's to say they aren't doing more damage? I can't imagine my poor husband knowing that isn't what I wanted and having to sit there feeling helpless and trying to mourn for me at the same time. Its awful.

numbersgirl08 · January 2014

I don't know - I am sure there are SO many angles to this story, and any story like this, that it's hard to just make a comment without being involved.

What it does do is remind myself that I need to get our wills finalized (they are done, we just need a witness to sign them), and any living will or directive put down on paper with very specific instructions in all types of situations. As someone else has said, I'm not sure it would help in TX, I don't know their laws well, but if I can do anything to make such a situation better wherever I am, I want to do it.

My directive would be to not keep me on life support if it is only my body they are dealing with. IF I am pregnant and there is a CHANCE the baby will survive and be in more than a vegetative state, then I would want to be kept alive to keep the baby alive. I understand the "women aren't incubators" argument, but for ME personally I would want my body to incubate my baby if at all possible.

kmkaull2 · January 2014

kari5186 said:

@kari5186 it isn't the hospital it is the state of Texas. Even if she had a DNR the state of Texas won't let her be taken off the machines they are forcing her to be an incubator.
Whoops I misread. Still, I think is horrendous that the family isn't being given a say.

According to the husband, the hospital is misinterpreting Texas law:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/pregnant-brain-dead-womans-husband-sues-hospital-21528221

[Deleted User] · January 2014

As a critical care nurse I focus on the medical side of the situation. Could there be any detrimental effects to the baby from medications that she received or is still receiving? Was there a lapse in oxygen to the baby from the initial injury? Has the mom been receiving enough nutrition for the baby to develop?

If the baby is given a good prognosis, then I would want my family to keep me alive as a "human incubator" until the baby is full term, or close to it.

RissNRuss · January 2014

zigspective said:

I'm not trying to stir up an abortion debate, but is there a harm in waiting another month until they can do a solid anatomy scan and see if there were any long-term effects from oxygen deprivation?
Because they are traumatizing the family that knew and loved her by keeping around her animated corpse isn't enough?

+1 Her husband, parents and child must be truly suffering. Also she was 14 weeks at Thanksgiving, which puts her in range for an AS by now- I had mine at 18 weeks.

duffmaker · January 2014

I just read everything and this makes me sick to my stomach

if something was to happen, where I was in a coma/unlikely to make it but the chances of the baby being fine were very high than yes, I would want to be kept on life support. If I was in this specific scenario than no.

duffmaker · January 2014

And the fact that the state is basically using this woman, baby and their family as guinea pigs is despicable.

Maelara · January 2014

NaChelleBeck said:

melOHdy said:

I think the difference for me is that, if it were a coma, I would want to be sustained so that my baby can grow. However, she is dead and that is really morbid and disturbing to me.

I think my husband would keep me alive if there was a chance for a healthy baby.

Also, in a dire health situation where only myself or the baby could live I honestly think my husband would choose to keep me alive. Not exactly related but just something I was thinking about
My husband as also told me the same.

When I was so sick with my gallbladder, my husband and my mom both told me they would chose me over the baby. At the time I was only 17 weeks but I was so mad at them! I would chose the baby every single time but I understand (now) where they were coming from.

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