Harry Potter ?'s (MAJOR nerd alert)

littlestjerry · January 2014

Ok, I've been re-reading all the HP's because I hadn't read them in years. But I have some questions that Google isn't really helping me answer. Spoiler alert, in case anyone cares.

1. I'm really confused by the ending of Prisoner of Azkaban and the time turner thing. Like, how did Harry see himself save himself from the dementor? And did Buckbeak ever get executed the first time around or no? Because I thought they couldn't change events in time per Dumbledore (because of the consequences), and I'm confused about how they could see things happen the first go around that hadn't happened yet. I feel like I can't articulate my question, but, whatever, that part confuses me.

2. At the end of Goblet of Fire, Voldemort is going around the circle of Death Eaters and talks about the missing ones. He talks about how he has one faithful servant still at Hogwarts and that turns out to be Barty Crouch. But what about Snape? He still thinks Snape is on his side right? So didn't he have two faithful servants at Hogwarts?

AmandagStark · January 2014

This post is hilarious!

RondackHiker · January 2014

1) Buckbeak was never killed. They didn't watch it happen. They saw them walk out toward the garden, heard the chop, heard hagrid sobbing, and assumed. The executioner was angry that Buckbeak was missing and lost his temper and chopped something else.

Time traveler Harry saw the "regular" Harry about to die and sent the patron us to save himself. Remember there were two versions of himself there. Regular Harry assumed it was someone else who saved him. Time travel Harry knows the truth.

RondackHiker · January 2014

2) he thinks Snape left him. Snape managed to convince him later that was not true and then Voldemort trusted him again.

RondackHiker · January 2014

LexiLupin said:
In theory, it all went down once with Buckbeak getting executed and then Hermione and Harry going back later to change it. But had that happened, Harry would have been "kissed" and then couldn't have gone back to save himself and Sirius. So I just sort of assume its meant to be a bit ambiguous and complicated with a touch of "wut?"

But you can't change the past. It only happened once, with two versions of Harry and Hermione. Harry and Hermione made some assumptions the first time (that Buckbeak died and that someone else saved Harry), when in reality their other versions were there, saving Buckbeak and Harry.

RondackHiker · January 2014

Okay, here, let me have a go at this (don't have a book with me, so totally from memory):

-Harry, Ron, Hermione leave hagrid's as the ministry officials arrive. The time travelers are in the bushes.

-ministry officials look out and see Buckbeak and then go in to sign papers. Time travelers leave bushes, grab buckbeak, retreat.

-Ministry officials and hagrid come out, see buckbeak is gone. Executioner throws axe. Hagrid wails in joy. Hearing this from partway up the hill, Harry, Ron, and Hermione assume the thump and wail is buckbeak's death and hagrid grieving. Time travelers are in bushes still, watching this.

-Harry, Ron, hermione meet the "grim" and end up in the shrieking shack for that whole drama. Time travelers still hanging out in the bushes for this period of time, with Buckbeak. They have to restrain Buckbeak when drunk hagrid passes.

-Harry, Ron, Hermione, lupin, Snape, worm tail, and Sirius emerge from tunnel under whomping willow. Lupin transforms. Sirius bolts after him. Worm tail stuns Ron and escapes. Timetravelers flee bushes because lupin is heading toward them. They hide by shore of lake.

-dementors stream into hogwarts. Harry heard Sirius scream and leaves Ron and Hermione to run to him. They're surrounded by dementors and both collapse. As he faints, Harry sees someone who looks like his dad send a patronus to save them. Time traveler Harry creeps away toward the lake and where he thought he saw his dad to try and see his dad up close and personal. As time traveler Harry watches, he realizes he's the only one there and that he didn't see his dad, he saw someone who LOOKED like his dad (himself). He stands and sends patronus (which is when "regular" Harry spots him.

-Harry and Hermione (regular ones) are in the hospital wing when dumbledore arrives. D knows buckbeak didn't die and that someone saved him. He also knows Sirius is innocent and needs to be saved. He's a smart guy and knows that Harry and Hermione can do both with the time turner and sends them back, thus creating the time traveling pair.

nanabanana06 · January 2014

1. The two stories overlap since it's the whole space-time continuum stuffs. So Buckbeak never died. When they went through it the first time there was also future Harry. So, when you think about it they are constantly looping those events since when one Harry wakes up in the hospital wing, they go back in time and become future Harry during the same events. It also makes that whole year confusing as there are so many Hermiones replaying the same classes and exams over again in different realities just always relooping things.

2. Snape waited to got to Voldemort so that Dumbledore would think he's still good. This way he can stay as a spy at Hogwarts. In reality Snape was really Dumbledore's guy and went back to Voldemort on his command. Snape was very good ac acclumency, so Voledmort never suspected.

RondackHiker · January 2014

I can draw this shit out if someone prefers a visual.

I may be bored with dh working really late.

nanabanana06 · January 2014

I guess because there are so many alternate realities going on that things are always in a loop. It might be that there was never a first event, just the same events repeating. Time travel stuff is always confusing.

littlestjerry · January 2014

Ok, so I kind of get it. They're not really going back to change time because the future them had already rescued Buckbeak/saved Harry from the Dementor?

I must have forgotten the part about Snape. Even though I've read all the books and seen the movies multiple times, I still momentarily thought "wait, SNAPE is the one who put Harry's name in the Goblet of Fire?!" when Voldemort said he had a faithful servant at Hogwarts. I am not a smart woman.

ETA: Went back to fix spelling of Hogwarts and Voldemort because I mis-typed, which made me realize neither correctly spelled word had a squiggly line. Thus, they are in the spellcheck dictionary? Brilliant.

RondackHiker · January 2014

LexiLupin said:
It's not the sequence of events that confuses me but rather the question of how the time travel loop gets started in the first place. How is it that no one had to make the conscious plan the first time to fix things?
Kind of a deus ex machina thing going on I guess?

Dumbledore started the loop.

He was at the failed execution. He knew that Buckbeak didn't die. He likely knew the the regular trio was on the hill (I believe he could see or sense through the invisibility cloak), but even if he didn't, he still knew that someone saved Buckbeak and that it seemed no one was in a position to be able to do so.

Then he was in the hospital wing and knew Hermione had that time turner and he knew she and Harry could have been the ones to save Buckbeak... And that if they did, they could also save Sirius.

littlestjerry · January 2014

LexiLupin said:

This is the BEST thread today. I need to go reread all the books.
ME TOO.

It's been quite enjoyable. Like coming back to an old friend.

I said the above to DH at dinner earlier, and he was like "WOW, you're a nerd." Ah well, sometimes you must face the truth.

RondackHiker · January 2014

Never underestimate Dumbledore, guys. The man knew everything going on in that school.

littlestjerry · January 2014

I just started Book 5, so there could be more question threads coming. Prepare yourselves!

RondackHiker · January 2014

LexiLupin said:

RondackHiker said:

LexiLupin said:
It's not the sequence of events that confuses me but rather the question of how the time travel loop gets started in the first place. How is it that no one had to make the conscious plan the first time to fix things?
Kind of a deus ex machina thing going on I guess?
Dumbledore started the loop.

He was at the failed execution. He knew that Buckbeak didn't die. He likely knew the the regular trio was on the hill (I believe he could see or sense through the invisibility cloak), but even if he didn't, he still knew that someone saved Buckbeak and that it seemed no one was in a position to be able to do so.

Then he was in the hospital wing and knew Hermione had that time turner and he knew she and Harry could have been the ones to save Buckbeak... And that if they did, they could also save Sirius.
I would argue that Dumbledore recognized the loop and ensured it continued. Not that he started it. Not that we see anyway.
But I don't think my question has an answer.

But see, a time loop doesn't really HAVE a start. It just is.

RondackHiker · January 2014

I want to read the books but I don't own them. I'm fairly certain my cousin took them and "forgot" to return them.

The cost of the set makes me flinch.

But I want them.

AccioPizza · January 2014

RondackHiker said:
1) Buckbeak was never killed. They didn't watch it happen. They saw them walk out toward the garden, heard the chop, heard hagrid sobbing, and assumed. The executioner was angry that Buckbeak was missing and lost his temper and chopped something else.

Time traveler Harry saw the "regular" Harry about to die and sent the patron us to save himself. Remember there were two versions of himself there. Regular Harry assumed it was someone else who saved him. Time travel Harry knows the truth.

This!

nanabanana06 · January 2014

LexiLupin said:

Didn't they just come out with special edition covers? (Maybe just UK version?) My books 1-4 could seriously use replacing, I want something fun!

They did just do some special edition covers. They look awesome. Go look at the freaking Swedish covers. They kick ass. I keep trying to get SO to buy them for my collection.

littlestjerry · January 2014

There's used sets of all 7 on amazon for around $35! I buy used books off amazon all the time and have never had any quality issues. Just FYI!

Eleventy11 · January 2014

Now I want to go back and re-read all of the books. I did that several years ago, and it was great. I have all of the movies, but haven't watched them all.

colliebabe · January 2014

The Order of the Phoenix came out while I was in London on a trip so I have that copy in the British edition. It's pretty cool!

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