What would you have done?

Luna C · January 2014

So, I'm on the bus coming home from work today. Woman gets on with a kid, probably about 18 months old, if that. He was crying a bit, but not hysterical. She sits down with him and just keeps telling him, "Shut up! Shut up!" Offers him juice; he refuses. Holds him for a bit; that doesn't work. She goes back to yelling "Shut up!" with increasing anger.

This goes on for a good 10 minutes. Surprisingly, screaming at a crying child was not making the situation better.

Finally she picks him up, screams in his face: "Shut the fuck up little boy!" and then threw him roughly back into the seat. (I wouldn't call the level of force she used abusive in the criminal sense -- although it was definitely way harder than needed -- but it seemed like if she hadn't been in public it would've been a lot harder and risen to the level of legal abuse.)

By this point, everyone on the bus is looking around trying to figure out if we should say/do something. I didn't, mostly because I felt like she was at a point where a stranger intervening would have pissed her off more and made it rougher for the kid once they got home. And no one else did by the time I got off. But now I'm wondering if there was something else I could have done. I wanted to all the cops, but I don't think Philadelphia cops are going to chase down a bus to deal with a complaint of "mean mom."

I'm so sad for that poor little baby, and so pissed none of us did anything more. But I honestly don't know what we could have done.

For what it's worth, she eventually offered him a snack which stopped him crying completely. So, yeah, great parenting there. She could've avoided the entire incident by just giving him his damn crackers ten minutes sooner.

hjl050308 · January 2014

Gotta love SEPTA. I saw so many things like that every day when I took the El. It's such a hard thing to witness and makes it worse when you don't know what to do. I agree with you, I doubt Philly cops would have done anything. Gosh, it's hard to say what I'd do....

Luna C · January 2014

I wanted to just grab him on my way off the bus and bring him home. He was such a cutie pie.

tbmadeamistake · January 2014

I'd like to say I would have said something, but its so different to hear about it than to be in it and your reasoning is sound. Why risk missing her off more when she might take it out on the kid? Hopefullyvshe was just a sitter and not a full time caregiver!

kbellizio3 · January 2014

Ugh SEPTA...I've had some interesting experiences people watching on SEPTA. That is a very sad situation. I can only think if she does that in public how is she at home. Very sad. Honestly I have no idea what I would do. That's a tough one

k2k2tog · January 2014

I would probably have not tried to hide my dropped jaw and shocked stare from her - public opinion can go a long way - but I wouldn't have done anything different.

wtfisup · January 2014

I always notify someone or do something. I was an abused kid; no one ever told my abuser that their behavior wasn't okay. Children can't help themselves.

I've done this in situations that were uncomfortable. My husband used to ask me to leave things alone. But having been that kid and having seen no one stand up for me, I know what it feels like long-term.

JNerd · January 2014

wtfisup said:
I always notify someone or do something. I was an abused kid; no one ever told my abuser that their behavior wasn't okay. Children can't help themselves.

I've done this in situations that were uncomfortable. My husband used to ask me to leave things alone. But having been that kid and having seen no one stand up for me, I know what it feels like long-term.

I'm so sorry you went through that. I know confrontations are uncomfortable but I applaud you for standing up, even when it was hard to do so.

Luna C · January 2014

wtfisup said:

I've done this in situations that were uncomfortable. My husband used to ask me to leave things alone. But having been that kid and having seen no one stand up for me, I know what it feels like long-term.

What do you say and what kind of response do you typically get? I'm not arguing, I'm genuinely curious.

I really felt like saying something to her would have made it worse. But I hate the idea of, as you point out, no one telling her "this is not ok."

lellymine · January 2014

I wouldn't have had the guys to say anything to her, especially if she seemed the type to get in my face and scream. Poor little guy

ElTrain5 · January 2014

Coming from Chicago, I've seen this too many times before. Let me tell you exactly how this would have played out...If you had said anything you would have been greeted with "who the fuck are you bitch mind you fuckin business before I knock you the fuck out". And she wouldn't have changed anyways. In a public situation like this, When there's obvious abuse going on (beating, kid looks starved, etc.) you can call the cops and they'll (hopefully) get child protective services involved. If it's in a more private setting (coworker, customer, etc.) you may be able to involve a counselor or some other type of intervention. But this was on a bus, it wasn't obvious/illegal abuse (just really shitty parenting) and you really didn't have that many options except getting screamed at yourself (and possibly hit). It sucks, but don't put yourself through too much guilt. I definitely don't envy the people who work for CPS and have to try and stem the tide of horrible parents/caregivers like that.

ElTrain5 · January 2014

On a more positive note, you're doing a good thing by bringing a child into this world who you will love and respect and teach to love and respect others, creating a much healthier cycle.

MrsCase1 · January 2014

Censorship is not my strong suit during pregnancy so if I was fairly sure she wohldn't shank me, I'd probably tell her all about herself.

Luna C · January 2014

ElTrain5 said:
Coming from Chicago, I've seen this too many times before. Let me tell you exactly how this would have played out...If you had said anything you would have been greeted with "who the fuck are you bitch mind you fuckin business before I knock you the fuck out". And she wouldn't have changed anyways.

Thats pretty much what I was picturing to. And then a few more screams/throwing of the child to show she wasn't intimidated by me.

No win situation. Esp. for the kid.

Read247 · January 2014

If I said anything it would be: "are you ok? You seem to be really frustrated. Is there anything I can do to help?" You don't know this woman or what she's going through. You got a 10? 20 minute glimpse of her life. You can't make assumptions based on a bus ride. She could have just been having a bad day and was having trouble controlling her temper. She could have had PPD and was trying to get the balance of medication right. She could have just lost a loved one and was feeling overwhelmed. Or all of the above. She could've just been having the worst day of her life and this was unusual behavior for her and you just happened to witness it. As you said, she wasn't illegally abusing him she was yelling at him and handling him roughly. You don't know her.

Luna C · January 2014

Read247 said:

If I said anything it would be: "are you ok? You seem to be really frustrated. Is there anything I can do to help?" You don't know this woman or what she's going through. You got a 10? 20 minute glimpse of her life. You can't make assumptions based on a bus ride. She could have just been having a bad day and was having trouble controlling her temper. She could have had PPD and was trying to get the balance of medication right. She could have just lost a loved one and was feeling overwhelmed. Or all of the above. She could've just been having the worst day of her life and this was unusual behavior for her and you just happened to witness it. As you said, she wasn't illegally abusing him she was yelling at him and handling him roughly. You don't know her.

I'm pretty sure throwing a toddler into a chair and screaming in his face for him to "shut the fuck up" are not Ok even if you're having a really bad day. Would you accept "I was really overwhelmed today" as excuse from your MIL or a babysitter if they did it to your child?

Read247 · January 2014

I saw a similar situation once. A woman screaming in her toddler's face so I asked her: "are you ok? You seem really frustrated. Is there anything I can do to help? Anyone I can call for you?" You know what she told me? Her baby was 16 months old and still not sleeping through the night. She had just lost her mother and her husband packed a bag and left her and her son the night before. I was shocked that she told me, a complete stranger this within 5 minutes of our first meeting. We ended up talking for over an hour. By the time we parted ways she seemed calmer.

Do you know what I learned? Don't judge someone when you don't know their story. That woman (turns out) was suffering from PPD and having a hell of a hard time. I don't think she was even aware of what she was doing. I talked to her and empathized with her and she opened up. I felt like I actually helped her and that little boy. We still keep in touch. Had I just side eyed her and told her she should be ashamed of herself and her behavior who knows what would have happened. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar is all I'm saying.

And I never said her behavior was ok. I said you shouldn't judge and make assumptions about a person's character from a 10-20 minute bus ride.

ElTrain5 · January 2014

That's all well and good, but I think the closest to that Luna would have gotten in this situation would be a good old fashioned "Bitch, you don't knoooow meee!" Just sayin.

Read247 · January 2014

That's all well and good, but I think the closest to that Luna would have gotten in this situation would be a good old fashioned "Bitch, you don't knoooow meee!" Just sayin.

That's entirely possible. I fully expected to get cursed out. Not every encounter will end up like mine. But she asked what she could've done and I'm just telling you my experience in a similar situation. Do with it what you will. Use it, ignore it. I'm just putting it out there.

ElTrain5 · January 2014

Now I'm asking because I'm genuinely curious...where exactly did your encounter occur?

edit:

I also ask because there's a big difference between reaching out to a distraught mother in the parking lot of a church in Wichita and "reaching out" to a mother on a public bus in downtown Detroit. I think it's great that you had a beautiful exchange with that woman, but not every situation is appropriate to have a "come to Jesus" moment with a total stranger. The woman that you encountered sounds more like an exhausted mom having a "I'm-not-too-proud-of-this" moment by losing her shit with her 3 year old in the toy aisle of Babies R Us. The woman Luna encountered (the one slamming her kid around and telling him to "shut the fuck up" repeatedly) sounds like a WHOLE different kind of woman. I'd just hate to see someone get knocked out because they genuinely thought they were "doing the right thing" by telling mom #2 that she "looks frustrated". Again, I'm glad your situation had a good outcome, but different circumstances definitely call for different reactions.

Read247 · January 2014

Grocery store

ETA: did you mean city/state?

Atlanta, GA

rachelyoung1984 · January 2014

I read this last night and laid awake thinking about it, it bothers me so much. My heart just breaks for children in those types of situations. I agree with many other posters saying that a calm understanding approach would be best, is everything ok? Is there something I can do to help? Etc. You are more than likely going to get cussed out, but you might not. You might just change that person's day. A helping hand is always the right way to go. I'm so sorry you had to witness that and didn't know what to do. Hindsight is always 20/20, I just pray she gets the help and/or support she quite obviously needs.