Need some advice re: Breastfeeding Baby Boots

BootsOrHearts · December 2013

So long story short, I've been trying like crazy to breastfeed Baby Boots. He was born at 36 weeks and couldn't latch so we were using a nipple shield, but he couldn't get enough still so we had to supplement with pumped milk. I never could make enough pumped milk no matter how often I pumped so we had to add in some formula too.

Fast forward to last week, he's 1 month old and 7 pounds and he's latching without the nipple shield thanks to some help from LC, yay! But he still can't get enough from nursing (either because I can't make enough or he's not strong enough to get it out, or both) so we're still supplementing each feeding with pumped milk and/or formula. The last few days he was breastfeeding all day, eating every time I thought he looked hungry which was every 1-2 hours (nipples = ouch!). Fast forward to today at the doctor's office, he hasn't gained enough weight, they don't think he's mature enough to feed on cue (he's still eating like a preemie) so we're back to 2.5-3 oz of fluid per feeding, every 3 hours. I can still BF but we have to supplement.

The schedule is brutal, especially at night. Wake him up, diaper change, nurse, bottle-feed, burp, sit upright for 30 minutes (he has reflux), diaper change, put to bed, pump/store milk = 2 hours. So I only get 1 hour of sleep before the next feeding (as does he). And if I really want to make sure he's getting enough food, I should probably get a scale and weigh him before and after each feeding which would add extra time.

I really can't fathom weeks or months with this schedule, if a friend or family member (or DH on weekends) hadn't been over to help me out for a few hours each day so I can nap, I would be so sleep-deprived by now I'd probably be hospitalized.

The only way I can see keeping it up is to hire a night nurse but that is going to be expensive, we'd really have to cut back to make it work. OR I give up the breastfeeding which would cut the feeding times down to probably an hour or a little bit more. I could say we tried, he got as much breastmilk as I could give him over the last 5 weeks which has to have had some benefit, right?

I need some sound advice, both from BF and FF moms. I know breast milk is good for him but I feel at my wit's end at this point.

@AmyG - could use your input also.

Here's some cookies for listening to my sad tale!

ProfessorPedals825 · December 2013

Hi Boots, I'm sorry you're having a tough time right now. Have you tried any milk production boosters like lactation cookies or fenugreek? The fenugreek upset my stomach too much but the cookies seemed to really help me. We didn't really get a chance to breastfeed much and decided on Exclusive Pumping. It was a really tough road, but once I had the routine down, it was easier and easier. I did this for 6 months and then started supplementing with formula and slowing cutting down my pumping from there. I stopped pumping altogether at 7 months and DD just finished her last bag of frozen milk last week at 9 months. Yes, breastmilk is best but you have to give yourself some credit for trying. Keep trying, but remember there are lots of options out there and formula is good too. Big hugs to you!

twotexans · December 2013

We brought M home at 36 weeks, and for the first 8ish weeks she was on the 2-3 hour schedule with BFing, pumping, sitting up for reflux etc.

I would forgo a BF session, and just pump, letting DH handle the feeding once a night, so I could get a bit more sleep. Typically I would feed M then hand her over to DH so I could pump and he could sit up with her. I would set everything up for the next pump session and then go to bed. When she woke up the next time DH would change her, feed her a pumped bottle and sit up with her. I would just pump and go back to bed. We tackled those early days in shifts. DH would typically go to bed at 8 and then get up around midnight to handle the end of the feed and then either catnap on the couch or come back to bed until the next feed around 2am. They would be done around 3am, and DH would go back to bed until 6. It was crazy, but allowed me to get a little extra rest.

I am another fan of both lactation cookies and fenugreek. They both really helped boost my supply. I also est oatmeal with ground flax seed most mornings. I still don't have a huge freezer stash, but enough for me to be able to go to the grocery store or get a pedicure by myself.

twotexans · December 2013

How long does he typically spend BFing each session? Did you happen to see on OT in the NICU? With M, she would fatigue very easily while feeding, especially BFing.

Mmm79 · December 2013

I will start off by saying that whatever you decide- bf or ff, Baby Boots is going to be just fine. So you need to make the decision based on what works best for you. I think for every woman (and family) there is a different set of circumstances that lead to different decisions.

I also had a 36 weeker who spent 3 days in NICU then 8 in Special Care Nursery./ He could not latch at all at first and during that time he got bottles of formula or pumped milk (with powdered formula added for extra calories). After each feeding, we'd try to get him to latch with the nipple shield. This is how we came home from the hospital. It was a crazy whirl of pumping, feeding then attempting to nurse. I was a hot mess. I attended bf group 3 days per week, had a private LC appointment AND a VNA visit each week, where we would check A's weight and how much milk he was transferring first with the shield and then, when he started latching, without it. A was still tiny, but steadily gaining weight, so that is where our experiences diverge.

What about at night just giving a bottle and pumping- not trying to latch the baby?

Once we got nursing established, it worked awesome during the day, but, I didn't exclusively nurse overnight until A was almost 3 months old, since I was afraid of him not getting enough milk and not sleeping (my WORST fear). So I would have this cycle going. I would give A 3 oz of pumped milk at midnight then put him back to bed and pump. I'd usually get enough for the next bottle (at 3 am) plus a little extra. Repeat same process at 3am, so I'd have the next night's midnight bottle ready and some left over form both sessions which became the basis of my freezer stock. The whole process would take about an hour, so I 'd manage about 2 hours of sleep in between. On Friday and Saturday nights, DH would give the midnight and 3am bottles so I only had to get up, pump and go back to bed. As A got older, the stretches of sleep between feedings would get a bit longer (so more sleep!). At around 2 month old, I started nursing the 3am feeding (so just 30 minutes awake!). Then just before I returned to work, I started nursing both overnight feedings (which had by then shifted to 2am and 6am).

Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

adoxyinherear · December 2013

Am so sorry you're having such a hard time. While it definitely sounds like you've got some serious challenges with the nursing - we had to use a shield for awhile, too, and DD's latch was absolute crap - nursing and sleeping in the first couple of months really can be brutal. We were in a vicious trying-to-latch, failing, pumping, bottle feeding cycle, too, though DD did start to get the hang of it after a few weeks, so I did not have your same experience by any means (she was also full term),

You've got to do what you got to do, and whatever you choose will absolutely be the best choice for your and your LO. I would encourage you to try to stick with the nursing. It gets SO MUCH easier and those weeks of tears were, for me, well worth the BFing relationship I still have with DD. I think @Mmm79's advice of just sticking with the bottles at night until things are better is a great one. It will alleviate a little bit of the pressure on your sleep schedule. Lots of hugs during this stressful time!

CnAnA · December 2013

Alive was born at 37w and wouldn't latch either. I pumped for 4w then switched to FF. If you are hell bent on BFing then try all the things previously mentioned. But if for your own sanity you choose to FF, this is me giving you permission.

Like I said, Alice was EFF after about a month old. She is healthy, kind, smart, and vocal. I can't imagine her being any more perfect than how she is right now!

BootsOrHearts · December 2013

@andreashields yes, taking fenugreek! It seems to help a bit.

@bumgellica216 it's encouraging to know that there's a light at the end of the tunnel if I stick with it!

@andreari80 yes we did a weighed feeding at the LC's office and he got about 1.5 ounces but that was a really good feeding, most of the time I have a hard time keeping him awake and then he doesn't feed that vigorously so I think mostly he's getting much less than that.

@twotexans - that is helpful we will try a schedule like that. we've struggled with both being sleep deprived and not really knowing how/when DH can best help and how much he can help since he has to go to work in the mornings. I nurse him up to 45 minutes at a time, but mostly he doesn't last that long, he gets too tired to keep going or just starts suckling vs. eating so I pull him off. At night I usually only have the energy to do 15 minutes, just enough to remind him what the boobs are for and hopefully help boost my supply. So yes, he gets really tired too. Did it get better with M? Are you able to EBF now?

BootsOrHearts · December 2013

RusalkaSings said:

Am so sorry you're having such a hard time. While it definitely sounds like you've got some serious challenges with the nursing - we had to use a shield for awhile, too, and DD's latch was absolute crap - nursing and sleeping in the first couple of months really can be brutal. We were in a vicious trying-to-latch, failing, pumping, bottle feeding cycle, too, though DD did start to get the hang of it after a few weeks, so I did not have your same experience by any means (she was also full term),

You've got to do what you got to do, and whatever you choose will absolutely be the best choice for your and your LO. I would encourage you to try to stick with the nursing. It gets SO MUCH easier and those weeks of tears were, for me, well worth the BFing relationship I still have with DD. I think @Mmm79's advice of just sticking with the bottles at night until things are better is a great one. It will alleviate a little bit of the pressure on your sleep schedule. Lots of hugs during this stressful time!

I want so much to stick with it and there are encouraging signs, like he can latch now pretty well (sometimes he still shallow latches and hurts me but that happens less often now) and he's drinking he just can't get enough yet. I keep hoping he will turn a corner soon. If I could EBF the routine would be a million times easier, I just don't know when/if we'll ever get there!

BootsOrHearts · December 2013

CnAnA said:

Alive was born at 37w and wouldn't latch either. I pumped for 4w then switched to FF. If you are hell bent on BFing then try all the things previously mentioned. But if for your own sanity you choose to FF, this is me giving you permission. Like I said, Alice was EFF after about a month old. She is healthy, kind, smart, and vocal. I can't imagine her being any more perfect than how she is right now!

Thank you this helps! Alice is a perfect doll so if Baby Boots turns out like her, I will be happy as can be!

BootsOrHearts · December 2013

kklamb10 said:

Z wasn't a preemie but we had issues with him gaining weight and BFing in the beginning. I'm not going to tell you what we did was best or even that it will work for anyone else but here it is. After Z hadn't gained any weight back at his 2 week appointment I was exhausted and we decided I would EP and bottle feed until we could get him to gain weight. I was an emotional mess and felt like I was failing my kid. Once I started EPing Z started gaining weight. After a few weeks I was barely pumping enough. I was eating oatmeal every morning and added fenugreek. I was able to get my supply up but was pumping all the time! When Z was about 6 weeks old I met with an LC to get him back to the breast. He surprised us and after doing some skin to skin latched right on and started eating like a champ. He now goes back and forth between bottle and breast no problem. He also has reflux and there were nights early on where DH and I would take turns sleeping with Z in the recliner so he was upright. He now sleeps in either his swing or bouncy seat and we don't worry about putting him down right after a feeding.

This is me. Exactly. I'm glad Z is doing so well now! Did the reflux get better? We finally broke down and took the Rx for prevacid for him. Hoping that helps.

adoxyinherear · December 2013

BootsOrHearts said:

RusalkaSings said:

Am so sorry you're having such a hard time. While it definitely sounds like you've got some serious challenges with the nursing - we had to use a shield for awhile, too, and DD's latch was absolute crap - nursing and sleeping in the first couple of months really can be brutal. We were in a vicious trying-to-latch, failing, pumping, bottle feeding cycle, too, though DD did start to get the hang of it after a few weeks, so I did not have your same experience by any means (she was also full term),

You've got to do what you got to do, and whatever you choose will absolutely be the best choice for your and your LO. I would encourage you to try to stick with the nursing. It gets SO MUCH easier and those weeks of tears were, for me, well worth the BFing relationship I still have with DD. I think @Mmm79's advice of just sticking with the bottles at night until things are better is a great one. It will alleviate a little bit of the pressure on your sleep schedule. Lots of hugs during this stressful time!

I want so much to stick with it and there are encouraging signs, like he can latch now pretty well (sometimes he still shallow latches and hurts me but that happens less often now) and he's drinking he just can't get enough yet. I keep hoping he will turn a corner soon. If I could EBF the routine would be a million times easier, I just don't know when/if we'll ever get there!

And that uncertainty is killer

I sincerely hope you two do turn a corner but know that no matter what, you're doing the best you can for both of you!

KikiCohen · December 2013

I'm sorry you're struggling

We went through a very similar situation. P was only 3 1/2 pounds when he was born so we went through trying nipple shields, using a supplemental feeding system, and just about every other device under the sun. We couldn't let him try to feed for longer than about 10 minutes in a stretch, otherwise he would burn more calories than he would get. I also had to fortify my BM, so I was "stuck" with EPing.

I completely understand your nighttime routine and lack of sleep. That's exactly what I went through too. It got to the point where I didn't even want to try to "go to bed" at night b/c I knew I would just be up several times and never get any real rest. I made it about 6 weeks and said I couldn't do it anymore. It took a lot for me to finally stop pumping and make the switch to formula, but I can tell you now that I am so glad that I did. After switching, I was able to actually get decent rest at night, P started putting on weight like a champ (he was literally at 0% for the first two months of his life), and we all had so much less stress.

I absolutely do not regret my decision. I am glad that I was able to give him BM as long as I did. The best advice I got in this whole process was to not confuse breastfeeding with mothering, so that's the advice I'm passing along. Feel free to PM me any time if you want to ask questions or talk about it.

twotexans · December 2013

M has been EBF for about 8 weeks. With her, we had to slowly work on stamina. We started with 10 minutes and added a minute every other day to sessions. We also moved to a faster flow nipple to reduce fatigue while bottle feeding. Now she can nurse 30+ minutes without issue. She also became a more efficient/productive nurser with age. I still have to use the damn nipple shield, but she is slowly getting better with an unassisted latch. She is up to about 5 minutes before she gets sloppy and tired.

Try not to be too hard on yourself, and it will get easier. BFing still isn't effortless for us, and I obsess over my supply constantly, but it is doable. There were many days of tears over exhaustion, supply and latch issues. We still have our off days. Growth spurts and cluster feeds still suck balls.

BootsOrHearts · December 2013

@shell041783 eek! Thanks for the correction on the call-out. Chalk it up to my lack of sleep. :-)

mightymousy · December 2013

No advice but *HUGE HUGS* sorry you're having a rough go Hun

Mom2anAngel2 · December 2013

((HUGS)). BFing can be so rough. My pedi gave me the best advise right after DS was born. He said that anything that you are able to give your child is a gift. That gift may last a year (or more) or it may only last a few weeks. But always be proud of yourself for giving that precious gift and never be upset with yourself if you could not give more. You can only give what you have.

Adam2010 · December 2013

First off...huge hugs! When I needed to up my supply drinking TONS of water helped along with BF tea. That is all I would drink daily, like 100oz of water plus at least 2 cups of tea. Helped boost my supply a lot. Secondly, I would try to make a scedule with your DH. You bf LO, then pump while he is in boppi upright and suppliment with bottle. The suggestion of making or buying a hands free bra is great. Then ask DH to change him and burp him while u clean up. I know it effecys DH sleep but it would only br 1/2 hr or less that he is awake and would help u get some extra rest. Being run down and tired also cuts down on supply. Make sure you are eating too.
Not sure if any of this helps or if u could change/make a plan with DH to help. Either way...huge hugs and tons of T&P that LO starts to feed better andgain some weight!

HopingforChange · January 2014

I don't have much advice, just ((hugs)). I can say that my DD gets formula fed every other feeding, especially at night. I felt SO guilty but I have anxiety and actually cannot function without sleep, especially because of SE of my meds. My pediatrician was very clear with me that FF is not going to hurt baby and can sometimes be a better choice. I am glad I let the guilt go. DD was a bit underweight at first but is now doing fine. I credit the formula for that. Also, the benefits of BFing, while always important, decline as baby ages. The colostrum Baby Boots has already gotten was the most important thing, so you should feel good about that. Do what you need to. You have to be happy and healthy for LO to be so. Sending support your way.

Laurakat81 · January 2014

I don't have any advice but wanted to say CONGRATS on your baby boy since I haven't been around like I used to be! You're doing a great job and I'm sorry BFing has become such a challenge! I second the recommendation to get together with a LC as often as possible and see if they have any tips! Either way you're doing great! It's ridiculously hard work to be so sleep deprived!

BootsOrHearts · January 2014

Laurakat81 said:

I don't have any advice but wanted to say CONGRATS on your baby boy since I haven't been around like I used to be! You're doing a great job and I'm sorry BFing has become such a challenge! I second the recommendation to get together with a LC as often as possible and see if they have any tips! Either way you're doing great! It's ridiculously hard work to be so sleep deprived!

Hey you!!! I love your siggy picture, it's so beautiful! I hope you are doing well. I can relate to not having much time to be online. Currently Baby Boots is asleep in his travel crib in the next room while DH is in the shower and MIL is folding laundry. The quiet will not last more than another 30 minutes. . . ha!

BootsOrHearts · January 2014

Thanks everyone for your advice and words of encouragement, I needed both!

I have decided I want to keep trying to BF because I like the time that we share together and I feel like it brings us closer together. It may or may not work in the end and I needed to hear that if I switch to FF only, I'm still a good Mom. I'd miss that part of our relationship but I will always be his Mom and we'll always have a special bond no matter how he's fed.

So the plan is thus:
1. I will try to nurse him during most of the day time feedings and pump after each one to try to build up my supply.
2. No more night time nursing, bottles only, pumped milk and them formula when we run out
3. I will pump during each night feeding, DH will take charge of one feeding a night so all I have to do is pump for that one.
4. We ordered a scale and will start to weigh him once to twice to figure out how much to supplement
5. I already had a hospital grade pump rental, insurance covered it because Baby was in the NICU but I extended it through the end of January. At some point I'll have to get a regular one but that can wait
6. I will meet with the LC again this week or next to work on latch. He's getting it, but he gets lazy part way through and slips off and that means being part of the Ouchy Nipple Club. :-/

Thank you again ladies, you are the bestest!

twotexans · January 2014

Sounds like you have a good game plan! I hope it allows you to get some extra rest and eases some of the stress.

Mmm79 · January 2014

BootsOrHearts said:

Thanks everyone for your advice and words of encouragement, I needed both!

I have decided I want to keep trying to BF because I like the time that we share together and I feel like it brings us closer together. It may or may not work in the end and I needed to hear that if I switch to FF only, I'm still a good Mom. I'd miss that part of our relationship but I will always be his Mom and we'll always have a special bond no matter how he's fed.

So the plan is thus:
1. I will try to nurse him during most of the day time feedings and pump after each one to try to build up my supply.
2. No more night time nursing, bottles only, pumped milk and them formula when we run out
3. I will pump during each night feeding, DH will take charge of one feeding a night so all I have to do is pump for that one.
4. We ordered a scale and will start to weigh him once to twice to figure out how much to supplement
5. I already had a hospital grade pump rental, insurance covered it because Baby was in the NICU but I extended it through the end of January. At some point I'll have to get a regular one but that can wait
6. I will meet with the LC again this week or next to work on latch. He's getting it, but he gets lazy part way through and slips off and that means being part of the Ouchy Nipple Club. :-/

Thank you again ladies, you are the bestest!

Sounds like a great plan! Good luck and keep us posted.

HopingforChange · January 2014

Sounds like you have a good plan of attack . I am impressed by your perseverance in the face of sleep deprivation.

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