Freebirth/Unassisted Childbirth

Daniallebeck · December 2013

Pregnant with my 4th and considering UC. All other children were all natural water births. I'm seeking care with a CNM for the 4th time. I'm very intune with my body and trust my instincts. I'm looking for advice, links, stories, etc

alliejoe · December 2013

I guess I just have to ask, what's your opposition to having your midwife there for the birth? I feel like a good midwife would be ok with being there just in case she's needed.

pixieprincss · December 2013

Mothering.com has a UC forum.

kboydbowman · December 2013

I had a Canadian friend who did this. Unassisted, in her own bathtub (not a water birth). Of course, she had also trained as a doula....

iris427 · December 2013

I think UC is a really bad idea, regardless of how many kids you have had or how in tune you are with your instincts. The reason home birth with a trained MW is safe is because it is with a trained MW. It is one thing to read a book about how to recognize and deal with emergencies while you are pregnant and everything is calm, and a completely different thing to actually handle that kind of situation in labor when it is happening to your body. Why not just find a MW who will be hands off and support a natural birth, but who will be there in case anything goes wrong? I would also strongly recommend anyone considering UC to read the Navel Gazing Midwife's posts about it. She is a HB midwife who had a UC herself and had a shoulder dystocia occur.

sschwege · December 2013

bromios said:

iris427 said:

Why not just find a MW who will be hands off and support a natural birth

... and then take that MW with you to a birthing center or hospital where they can provide emergency assistance if something goes terribly wrong! In a home birth, if the mother is bleeding out, there are limits to what a MW can do (basically, she can perform uterine compressions). At the hospital they can give you injections to hasten clotting, pitocin to encourage uterine contraction, and blood transfusions if it comes to that. Also, there are situations where an emergency c-section becomes necessary to save mother or baby or both, and MWs can't do those, period.

What does a birthing center have that a MW would not have?

lrj85 · December 2013

sschwege said:

bromios said:

iris427 said:

Why not just find a MW who will be hands off and support a natural birth

... and then take that MW with you to a birthing center or hospital where they can provide emergency assistance if something goes terribly wrong! In a home birth, if the mother is bleeding out, there are limits to what a MW can do (basically, she can perform uterine compressions). At the hospital they can give you injections to hasten clotting, pitocin to encourage uterine contraction, and blood transfusions if it comes to that. Also, there are situations where an emergency c-section becomes necessary to save mother or baby or both, and MWs can't do those, period.

What does a birthing center have that a MW would not have?

Midwives can also carry pitocin which they can legally administer for a postpartum hemorrhage. The rates of that particular risk is very low. SOME women do not want to give birth in a hospital where sick people are and choose not to treat a healthy perfectly fine pregnancy like an emergency situation. You can get in a horrendous car wreck driving to work the risk is small on any given day but it is there do you still go to work? Just saying investigate the risks as they pertain to you. I do not personally believe birth belongs in a hospital...

iris427 · December 2013

bromios said:

lrj85 said:

sschwege said:

bromios said:

iris427 said:

Why not just find a MW who will be hands off and support a natural birth

... and then take that MW with you to a birthing center or hospital where they can provide emergency assistance if something goes terribly wrong! In a home birth, if the mother is bleeding out, there are limits to what a MW can do (basically, she can perform uterine compressions). At the hospital they can give you injections to hasten clotting, pitocin to encourage uterine contraction, and blood transfusions if it comes to that. Also, there are situations where an emergency c-section becomes necessary to save mother or baby or both, and MWs can't do those, period.

What does a birthing center have that a MW would not have?

Midwives can also carry pitocin which they can legally administer for a postpartum hemorrhage. The rates of that particular risk is very low. SOME women do not want to give birth in a hospital where sick people are and choose not to treat a healthy perfectly fine pregnancy like an emergency situation. You can get in a horrendous car wreck driving to work the risk is small on any given day but it is there do you still go to work? Just saying investigate the risks as they pertain to you. I do not personally believe birth belongs in a hospital...

Some birthing centers have doctors on hand in the event of an emergency, operating rooms, things like that. Not all, but some.
@lrj85 - Midwives CAN carry pitocin, but not all midwives do. And the US is one of the few developed nations where a midwife is allowed to practice with extremely minimal training and can receive a certain level of certification without ever participating in a delivery at all. As for the risk of women hemorrhaging being "very low," maybe I'm just a lightening rod for women who have almost bled to death giving birth, but IRL I personally know five mothers who would have bled out had they not been in the hospital. In addition to myself. And that's about a fifth of the women I know who have had babies. You also seem to be ignoring the fact that, until you are actually delivering, you can't always KNOW what risks will end up pertaining to you, because the baby could be fine one day and have the cord wrapped around its neck at the delivery. And that's just one potential complication, there are dozens. Also, the maternity ward isn't usually right next to the ER, so it isn't like there are sick people coughing in the hallways of labor and delivery. Yes, people drive to work (I don't, but a lot of people do). And every birth has risk, even at the hospital. But what you're talking about isn't like driving a car to work, it's like riding a motorcycle to work without a helmet on St. Patrick's Day. With your baby. There is a much safer option, and for a mother not to take that exponentially safer option flies in the face of everything I believe about a mother's role as an advocate for and protector of her child.

Meh, I feel like with that logic, we should all just have scheduled cesareans at 39 weeks. I don't think a planned HB with a trained provider is anything like the analogy you give. Even ACOG, which opposes home birth, has said the overall risk is small. Sometimes a mother has to balance the well-being of her child with her own physical and psychological well-being. It's not always so simple to say what choice a mother should make. I don't know anyone who has chosen a home birth and didn't have their child's well-being in mind. Maybe they don't see the risk-benefit equation the same way as you or take the same factors into consideration, but they are still doing what they think is best as a mother. I do agree with you about the low standards for midwives in the US though. That needs to change.

catsinawindow · December 2013

bromios said:

lrj85 said:

sschwege said:

bromios said:

iris427 said:

Why not just find a MW who will be hands off and support a natural birth

... and then take that MW with you to a birthing center or hospital where they can provide emergency assistance if something goes terribly wrong! In a home birth, if the mother is bleeding out, there are limits to what a MW can do (basically, she can perform uterine compressions). At the hospital they can give you injections to hasten clotting, pitocin to encourage uterine contraction, and blood transfusions if it comes to that. Also, there are situations where an emergency c-section becomes necessary to save mother or baby or both, and MWs can't do those, period.

What does a birthing center have that a MW would not have?

Midwives can also carry pitocin which they can legally administer for a postpartum hemorrhage. The rates of that particular risk is very low. SOME women do not want to give birth in a hospital where sick people are and choose not to treat a healthy perfectly fine pregnancy like an emergency situation. You can get in a horrendous car wreck driving to work the risk is small on any given day but it is there do you still go to work? Just saying investigate the risks as they pertain to you. I do not personally believe birth belongs in a hospital...

Some birthing centers have doctors on hand in the event of an emergency, operating rooms, things like that. Not all, but some.
@lrj85 - Midwives CAN carry pitocin, but not all midwives do. And the US is one of the few developed nations where a midwife is allowed to practice with extremely minimal training and can receive a certain level of certification without ever participating in a delivery at all. As for the risk of women hemorrhaging being "very low," maybe I'm just a lightening rod for women who have almost bled to death giving birth, but IRL I personally know five mothers who would have bled out had they not been in the hospital. In addition to myself. And that's about a fifth of the women I know who have had babies. You also seem to be ignoring the fact that, until you are actually delivering, you can't always KNOW what risks will end up pertaining to you, because the baby could be fine one day and have the cord wrapped around its neck at the delivery. And that's just one potential complication, there are dozens. Also, the maternity ward isn't usually right next to the ER, so it isn't like there are sick people coughing in the hallways of labor and delivery. Yes, people drive to work (I don't, but a lot of people do). And every birth has risk, even at the hospital. But what you're talking about isn't like driving a car to work, it's like riding a motorcycle to work without a helmet on St. Patrick's Day. With your baby. There is a much safer option, and for a mother not to take that exponentially safer option flies in the face of everything I believe about a mother's role as an advocate for and protector of her child.

The thing is that for low risk women a hospital birth is not a "much safer option" and certainly not an "exponentially safer option" compared to out-of-hospital birth. Multiple large studies have shown that, for low risk women, out of hospital birth with a trained MW is just as safe for mom and baby compared to hospital birth.

mavgirl_73 · December 2013

bromios said:
This is kind of like talking to a wall that doesn't understand the concept of low risk suddenly becoming an emergency mid-delivery...

No actually this is the case of very differing opinions. If you look at pretty much every other "developed" country homebirths are the norm and OB assisted births are used almost exclusively for high risk pregnancies. You don't have to agree or choose for yourself homebirth but very large scale studies show that homebirth, with trained professionals, is very safe. I'm sorry you had a poor experience and had complications but you are in the minority. But to ignore that maternal demise/fetal demise happens even in the most controlled environments is ignorant and untrue. This is a difference of opinion. No need to be so extreme.

mavgirl_73 · December 2013

I too have seen many babies in the NICU (approximately 3000 over the course of my career so far). I work at a large children's hospital as an occupational therapist who works primarily in the NICU. I admire your strong opinions but you fail to give credit to people to do their own research on their care providers. Also to call it unconscionable is ridiculous. And just as you would never choose to have your baby at home after seeing a mother and two infants die from TB exposure which occurred in a nicu and countless infants test positive for MRSA and VRE while in hospital it only strengthened my decision for a homebirth. Since your feelings are so strong on this subject I'm not sure why you frequent threads where you have to know that most women do not feel the way you do? To each their own.

Edit: pushed send too quickly.

lrj85 · December 2013

We do not live our lives in a vacuum. There is risk for taking a shower seriously people die doing this daily!!!! As I said there is more risk in me driving to work on the highway than there is me bleeding to death at home from a hemorrhage. Yet no one seemingly implies I am some how risking my life by going in to work every day. I think this whole mitigate all risk THINK of the CHILDREN BS is really over board and a scare topic. As for maternal death stats int he US they are stupid unreliable! Under reported by a 1/3 at least because only a third of women who die of child bearing related causes have autopsies did you know that? In other industrializzed nations ALL women of child bearing age who die get an autopsy. Also state to state county to county what they consider death from child birth varies so there is no stream lined reporting procedure. Guess where most of those birth and deaths occur? THE HOSPITAL! So clearly a "controlled environment" isnt always safer or staffed with even decent Doctors

alliejoe · December 2013

@bromios An honest question, why are you on the natural birth page? At first I was under the assumption that you planned a natural birth but then conceived twins and your birth plans changed. The more I read, the more it seems as though you're here to stir the pot and tell everyone that their plans, hopes, intentions, etc. are stupid and that they were lucky their successful natural and/or home births didn't end I tragedy.

I agree that an unassisted birth is an unnecessary risk, but your overwhelming opinion pops up in every feed you post on.

boogerbearoriginal · December 2013

alliejoe said:

@bromios An honest question, why are you on the natural birth page? At first I was under the assumption that you planned a natural birth but then conceived twins and your birth plans changed. The more I read, the more it seems as though you're here to stir the pot and tell everyone that their plans, hopes, intentions, etc. are stupid and that they were lucky their successful natural and/or home births didn't end I tragedy.

I agree that an unassisted birth is an unnecessary risk, but your overwhelming opinion pops up in every feed you post on.

I've wondered this myself after reading a few posts. It seems like her sole purpose is to tell people anything other than a hospital birth with NICU on site attended by an OB is set up for disaster.

While I can certainly agree that more rigorous training/standards should be in place for midwives in this country, I think it's shortsighted and closeminded to suggest no home birth is safe for any mother/baby. Furthermore, I'm not sure you should be painting hospital births as the wholly safer option when that's demonstrably not true for all women.

And I'm curious, bromios, how you would classify my hospital birth plan since my local community hospital has no NICU available - is that a huge risk? One big reason we chose it is because it's only ~5mins from the house and I had a positive experience delivering there with my first. But should I instead drive 30+mins in middle of Feb to the "big" hospital just in case?

The fact is, there are no guarantees in life and plenty of moms and/or babies die in the very best hospitals and plenty of moms and babies have completely safe deliveries at home and everything in-between. You seem to be so focused on fear-mongoring and all the negative outcomes, yet so unable to acknowledge the millions of positive outcomes for mom/baby at every setting.

I can never get on board with the idea of a planned unassisted childbirth, because of the risks involved. However, to lump all home births together is not an effective way to help protect women who do want/chose to deliver in their homes but need safe options.

alliejoe · December 2013

She gave me a fair amount of opposition against my possible unmediated vaginal breech delivery planned in a hospital with an OB (b/c MW can only assist in a vaginal breech) and the best NICU in the region. Presumably b/c her breech extraction was traumatic. She also advised against an EVC at 37+ weeks b/c it could bring on preterm labor.

sschwege · December 2013

bromios said:

alliejoe said:

@bromios An honest question, why are you on the natural birth page? At first I was under the assumption that you planned a natural birth but then conceived twins and your birth plans changed.

This.

And @alliejoe - Really? I didn't intend to suggest that I opposed that plan (because I don't, it sounds like a perfectly reasonable one). And is "unmediated" supposed to be "unmedicated"? If so, all I was saying is that it can hurt like a mother. And I didn't say don't do an EVC, I suggested considering whether any of the methods you were talking about were associated with bringing on preterm labor (and pointed out that a birth before 39 weeks is now considered pre-term). That's it. I think it is awesome that you made sure your hospital has the best NICU in the region (I still don't think you'd like to spend any time there, but that seems like a really responsible choice).

This is being said without an ounce snark, it sounds like you had a very traumatic birth experience in addition to having friends who also had a traumatic experiences. Perhaps you would benefit from talking to someone about it?

alliejoe · December 2013

Yup, it is supposed to read unmedicated, not unmediated. Unfortunate autocorrect.

I don't doubt that it will hurt, but an extraction is different from a beech delivery. I can't imagine entering an extraction without some pain relief unless it was an emergent need.

OP- sorry to have hijacked your post.

kboydbowman · December 2013

bromios said:

In pretty much every other "developed" country, Midwives have to go through much more rigorous training to be permitted to practice.

I think you are somewhat confused about what a midwife is. There are different kinds of midwives, but the midwives that most of us are talking about using are CNMs - certified nurse midwives. These are women with at least 6 plus years of certified training and degrees in nursing and midwifery. Most of them actually have masters degrees in their fields. Insurance companies will typically only cover CNMs, so your argument is kind of moot.

kboydbowman · December 2013

alliejoe said:

@bromios An honest question, why are you on the natural birth page? At first I was under the assumption that you planned a natural birth but then conceived twins and your birth plans changed. The more I read, the more it seems as though you're here to stir the pot and tell everyone that their plans, hopes, intentions, etc. are stupid and that they were lucky their successful natural and/or home births didn't end I tragedy.

I agree that an unassisted birth is an unnecessary risk, but your overwhelming opinion pops up in every feed you post on.

I was thinking the same thing myself...sort of like a blood bank representative at a Christian Scientist convention or something...

Ardmhs83 · December 2013

Oh Lord..this thread isn't going to end well...

mavgirl_73 · December 2013

Ardmhs83 said:
Oh Lord..this thread isn't going to end well...

^^Couldnt be more true because as "attached to our vision of our delivery" as we are she allows her own very traumatic experience to overwhelm evidence that proves to the contrary. I'm not saying that at some points she does not make valid assertions but her inability to look beyond anecdotal evidence (I.e. These same 5 women who would've died without interventions) does not allow her to see the that options (including homebirth) allow for mothers and babies to have safe and healthy deliveries because having had a very traumatic hospital delivery with our first and dealing with lack of imprinting and crippling ppd for almost 2 yrs definitely had an effect on my psyche and my relationship with my child and for the record my child is a very happy an healthy almost 2.5 yr old. To minimialize my experience shows immaturity and an unprofessional attitude (I say unprofessional because she keeps claiming to have "education and experience" so I'm assuming, perhaps wrongly, that she's at the very least a nurse) which is not at all helpful, to anyone. I sincerely hope she is not in a position to counsel anyone on their birthin options because in order to do that one has to be able to be objective and clearly she does not have that ability.

sschwege · December 2013

bromios said:

sschwege said:

alliejoe said:

@bromios An honest question, why are you on the natural birth page? At first I was under the assumption that you planned a natural birth but then conceived twins and your birth plans changed.
This.
And @alliejoe - Really? I didn't intend to suggest that I opposed that plan (because I don't, it sounds like a perfectly reasonable one). And is "unmediated" supposed to be "unmedicated"? If so, all I was saying is that it can hurt like a mother. And I didn't say don't do an EVC, I suggested considering whether any of the methods you were talking about were associated with bringing on preterm labor (and pointed out that a birth before 39 weeks is now considered pre-term). That's it. I think it is awesome that you made sure your hospital has the best NICU in the region (I still don't think you'd like to spend any time there, but that seems like a really responsible choice).
This is being said without an ounce snark, it sounds like you had a very traumatic birth experience in addition to having friends who also had a traumatic experiences. Perhaps you would benefit from talking to someone about it?

No snark taken I'm a big believer in seeking the help of professionals (that much should be clear from my posts). I would never try to tackle the emotional damage I sustained without professional help. A lot of people on this board are clearly very attached to their vision for their delivery, and part of what I am trying to bring is the perspective of someone who has learned to see a healthy baby as a win regardless of the uncomfortable, harsh, or even traumatic conditions under which that child is born. I always thought home births were a terrible idea, but I used to be very attached to the idea of an unmedicated birth, of obsessing over when my child received its first bath, whether to get the eye drops or not. As it turned out, all of those choices were taken out of my hands, and I still ended up with healthy, happy, emotionally connected children. I now understand how little those other things really matter in the grand scheme of things. And I hate the thought of another mother losing a child unnecessarily because the care that child needed wasn't immediately available. My feelings on the subject are strong, but they come from a place of wanting the best end result for every mother and baby.

I agree with you on certain points. There are some women out there who value the experience above all else. I know one personally who wanted a HB assisted by a MW. As her pregnancy progressed the MW decided a HB was too risky and recommended she continue under her care, but be delivered in a hospital. This woman would not be convinced otherwise and when she went into labor maintained her commitment to stay home. The MW did eventually come and deliver the baby when she realized she was going to go unassisted and thankfully for everyone involved it all worked out fine. But I think women like this are few and far between.

Most people on here are educated and have spent a lot of time weighing the risks and benefits. Look at my situation, I am fortunate that I live in a big city with a many options in terms of hospitals. I picked a hospital known for being low-intervention, the only down-side no NICU. There is a hospital equal distance away that has a NICU, but is known for being a c-section factory and their rates support their reputation. I'm sure some (including my mom a pediatric nurse) would argue I should have gone to this other hospital. My thinking was, the chances of my baby needing Level III care is low, if they did need it the Level II team could stabilize before a transfer, my chance of 'needing' a c-section or any other interventions increases by being at this high intervention hospital which increases the risks to myself and baby. It's just not as black and white as saying, "the best end result for mother and baby."

Another point of which I agree with you is that some women get tunnel vision when it comes to planning that 'perfect' birth. Sadly they are just opening themselves up for disappointment, because real-life generally doesn't follow a strictly laid out plan. However, I think many women on here view a birth plan as sort of their ideal, their Plan A. There are some women on here, myself included who make a c-section birth plan as well. When I drew that up my hope was that it would gather dust in my chart, but I made that with the knowledge that even the best plans can go in a totally opposite direction. DH and I also wrote up a plan and discussed what would happen if baby had to go to the Special Care Nursery, which did happen with my second. As I watched them wheel little DS out of my room it made me feel comforted to know that we had a plan (no formula, paci, first bath). So I don't think for a lot of women on here it's about being 'attached to their vision for their delivery', it's about making informed, educated choices with the understanding that when the day comes the plan may change.

You seem well educated and I think some of your points are good ones.

iris427 · December 2013

trawas01 said:

Lurker with a question.... why unassisted birth? I get natural, I get hospitals, I get birth centers, I get home births. But as long as humans have been living together and having babies woman have sought out other woman to help them with birth, usually woman who knew what birth was all about and how to help....where and why did this trend of delivering your child on your own happen?

There are some cultures that have historically or still have unassisted births today. So it's not just something crazy women in industrialized cultures have come up with. But the cultures that practice it have very high mortality rates. And yes, for most of human history, in most societies, women have given birth with assistance, and for good reason.

jess9802 · December 2013

This is the natural childbirth board, not a Homebirth board, and not a U/C Board. This is also not Mothering.com, where dissenting opinions are aggressively deleted. People are welcome to post here and share information even if they do not end up having an unmedicated vaginal delivery.

The training, education, and licensure of midwives is absolutely relevant to the outcomes of planned homebirth. Perhaps in some areas and states homebirths are attended by CNMs, but that's certainly not the case in my state (Oregon), which has a very high rate of homebirth compared to other states. There is ONE accredited birth center in Oregon (in fact, just one in all of Oregon, Washington, and Idaho) that is affiliated with a hospital and staffed by CNMs. Otherwise, most of those birthing centers are staffed by direct entry midwives, who would not be qualified to attend births in any European country.

The debate over planned out of hospital birth has been so intense in this state that the Legislature mandated that intended place of birth information be listed on birth certificates starting in 2012. A homebirth proponent analyzed the data. The overall death rate for infants was very low regardless of place of birth. But the death rate for neonates whose births were planned to take place out of the hospital was higher: for planned OOH births, it was a death rate of 4.5/1000; for planned OOH with DEM attendant, 5.6/1000; for planned hospital births, 0.6/1000. I became interested in this topic because of a very well-publicized stillbirth at a home birth in my city in 2011.

This isn't to say women shouldn't have a choice as to where they give birth, but it should be an informed choice, and looking at data from foreign countries with different models of healthcare (especially those where midwives are universally highly trained and integrated into the healthcare system) in making that choice undermines the claim that it's an informed one.

Daniallebeck · December 2013

I'm sorry I should have said SUPPORTIVE comments only. I don't succumb to fear mongering. I used to be against UC as well, however the more I've learned, the more it speaks to me personally. I have done the midwife thing. I've done the hospital thing. The midwives were more in the way than helpful. I trust my gut and intuition. If my gut says go to the hospital, then I will. I believe birth is a normal part of life. As long as I'm low risk and everything looks good then I am personally ok with birthing without a ob or midwife. My husband and doula will both be here. My doula will bring oxygen in case of an emergency. We will also prepare for other possible complications. There is so much fear surrounding birth which really impedes the process. Yes there is a very slight chance of something going wrong, but I could also be in an accident on the way to the hospital and die. Life is all about weighing risk. I feel for my family that this is a risk I'm willing to take. There are risks with going to the hospital as well, but no one ever thinks about that. U don't have to support my choice, but if u have nothing constructive to say then please move along. Thank u

jess9802 · December 2013

OP, you don't get to control who responds to your posts. So long as no one is violating the TOS, they are entitled to post. This is not an echo chamber. There are very thoughtful and intelligent posters in this forum who may raise a point you did not consider. If you are not open to hearing those opinions, you may wish to consider a forum like the UC board on Mothering.com.

FWIW, you had a shoulder dystocia during one delivery, so obviously you are aware of what can happen during labor. I hope your doula is aware of that history and that you understand the limits of her ability to assist you in labor in case of a similar complication. I sincerely wish you and your baby the best.

L0L0 · December 2013

Unassisted free birth is WAY more radical than home birth with a midwife. Why do you not want a midwife there? How will you and your partner feel if there's a complication you can't resolve that the midwife could have, and the baby is hurt or even dies? Do you think you can take care of a pretty common complication like the cord around the neck? How would you know how to do that? Have you really examined why you are drawn to unassisted birth? I don't see what is so appealing about it. It just seems like you are trying to top your other births. I don't mean to be offensive, and the birth would probably be just fine, but my tolerance for risk is just too low to even consider it.

Empireceo · December 2013

Daniallebeck said:

I'm sorry I should have said SUPPORTIVE comments only. I don't succumb to fear mongering. I used to be against UC as well, however the more I've learned, the more it speaks to me personally. I have done the midwife thing. I've done the hospital thing. The midwives were more in the way than helpful. I trust my gut and intuition. If my gut says go to the hospital, then I will. I believe birth is a normal part of life. As long as I'm low risk and everything looks good then I am personally ok with birthing without a ob or midwife. My husband and doula will both be here. My doula will bring oxygen in case of an emergency. We will also prepare for other possible complications. There is so much fear surrounding birth which really impedes the process. Yes there is a very slight chance of something going wrong, but I could also be in an accident on the way to the hospital and die. Life is all about weighing risk. I feel for my family that this is a risk I'm willing to take. There are risks with going to the hospital as well, but no one ever thinks about that. U don't have to support my choice, but if u have nothing constructive to say then please move along. Thank u

Directing people on how to respond never goes over well.

wifeofadam · December 2013

My last birth was a planned homebirth but my MW didn't make it in time. We had a successful UC (with a midwife on the phone walking my BFF through what to do). I feel very lucky that everything turn out well and no one was harmed, but I would never do that again (if I could control it). So much could have gone wrong.

And I'm thankful that my midwife eventually showed up and was able to help deliver the placenta, assess me for tearing, and do a newborn assessment. Those are the things that no one there would have been qualified to do. Birthing the baby is the easy part, I think.

I'm a big advocate for HB, but UC is a risk I wouldn't take if I had the choice.

iris427 · December 2013

@+adamwife+ OMG look at all your beautiful kids! How are you doing?

wifeofadam · December 2013

iris427 said:

@+adamwife+ OMG look at all your beautiful kids! How are you doing?

Doing well! Thanks for asking!! They keep me busy, that's for sure.

CONGRATULATIONS!! I'm so excited for you.

nosoup4u · December 2013

Daniallebeck said:
I'm sorry I should have said SUPPORTIVE comments only. I don't succumb to fear mongering. .... As long as I'm low risk and everything looks good then I am personally ok with birthing without a ob or midwife. My husband and doula will both be here. My doula will bring oxygen in case of an emergency. We will also prepare for other possible complications.

Doulas aren't stand-ins for MW, and it's irresponsible for you to use your doula as one. She should know better as well. Good luck, OP, but you really should have gone straight to Mothering w this one.

iris427 · December 2013

+adamwife+ said:

iris427 said:

@+adamwife+ OMG look at all your beautiful kids! How are you doing?

Doing well! Thanks for asking!! They keep me busy, that's for sure.

CONGRATULATIONS!! I'm so excited for you.

Thanks! We thought we were done with 2 but life had other plans haha. I was in shock for a bit but I'm excited to have a snuggly little baby again.

wintersong · December 2013

So, those using midwives have to be informed consumers. I plan on using a CNM, which is certainly a more rigorous form of training than some on this thread seem to think.

huntjul · December 2013

I think UC is taking an unfathomable risk, though I am pro-HB if the mother chooses. But the numbers are clear that even a MW-attended planned birth out of hospital carries higher risk of fetal mortality as a PP noted. There aren't figures on UC and stillbirth that I am aware of, but I'm certain those figures would be worse still. Why is it so terrible to have a MW present who will agree to be hands-off? Why is a doula okay and not a MW?

CosMayah · January 2014

I am pregnant with baby #5. My last 3 were UC births. UC may not be for everyone, however, if previous pregnancies/ deliveries have been successful, more than likely this one will be too. My desire for another UC is because I relish in the privacy, being nude in the water with my husband, no distractions, no outside influences of other peoples doubt or negative energy. The best advice I could offer is to read extensively on childbirth as if you were training to be a midwife yourself. I have a midwife for the first time and her only concerns for me would be shoulder distocia because my 3rd was 11lbs. However, her and I agree that the best position is hands and knees in that case( which I instinctively do anyhow). I gave birth to him unassisted without a single tear. Fear causes anxiety, anxiety causes stress, stress causes blockages of hormones in natural childbirth. There is a part of yourself that knows exactly what to do in any given circumstance- listen to that part of you that is instinctual and intuitive because only you can make the best informed decision for you and the being that thrives within you.

Lsm7338 · January 2014

I have had terrible experiences at the supermarket, should I never step into a grocery store again?! God bless any woman who wants to deliver her baby her own way, hospital, birth center, or in the middle of a river. Some people choose to live in fear constantly, it's sad.

abirdd9 · January 2014

I'm among one of the biggest supporters of home birth that I know and I just can NOT get behind unassisted birth. I probably wouldn't even use a CPM, only a CNM. I can't wrap my head around why someone wouldn't want a trained medical professional (midwife) with all of their equipment there to observe and make sure things are progressing and end up as they should.

This is your 4th, so (I hope) you know that midwives are highly trained to recognize and correct or transfer any problems should they arise. I don't care how many times a person has given birth or in tune one is with one's own body. Every pregnancy and labor and birth is different and so much can happen in such a short time.

abirdd9 · January 2014

bromios said:

iris427 said:

Why not just find a MW who will be hands off and support a natural birth

... and then take that MW with you to a birthing center or hospital where they can provide emergency assistance if something goes terribly wrong! In a home birth, if the mother is bleeding out, there are limits to what a MW can do (basically, she can perform uterine compressions). At the hospital they can give you injections to hasten clotting, pitocin to encourage uterine contraction, and blood transfusions if it comes to that. Also, there are situations where an emergency c-section becomes necessary to save mother or baby or both, and MWs can't do those, period.

It's true that there are limitations to what a MW can do to stop hemorrage, but uterine compression is NOT the only option. All the MWs (CNMs) in my area, at least, carry all the equipment a Level I labor and delivery room in a hospital would have. That includes an injection of pitocin should mom bleed out. Chewing up and swallowing a small chunk of placenta is also an option.

abirdd9 · January 2014

Daniallebeck said:

I'm sorry I should have said SUPPORTIVE comments only. I don't succumb to fear mongering. I used to be against UC as well, however the more I've learned, the more it speaks to me personally. I have done the midwife thing. I've done the hospital thing. The midwives were more in the way than helpful. I trust my gut and intuition. If my gut says go to the hospital, then I will. I believe birth is a normal part of life. As long as I'm low risk and everything looks good then I am personally ok with birthing without a ob or midwife. My husband and doula will both be here. My doula will bring oxygen in case of an emergency. We will also prepare for other possible complications. There is so much fear surrounding birth which really impedes the process. Yes there is a very slight chance of something going wrong, but I could also be in an accident on the way to the hospital and die. Life is all about weighing risk. I feel for my family that this is a risk I'm willing to take. There are risks with going to the hospital as well, but no one ever thinks about that. U don't have to support my choice, but if u have nothing constructive to say then please move along. Thank u

Here you go: https://www.mothering.com/community/f/306/unassisted-childbirth

HNRomance · January 2014

wow, since this turned into an argument on unassisted birth as a choice instead of stories and tips I will go out on a limb and say more power to you if that is your choice. Hopefully you live within a few miles of a hospital for emergency transfer and I would also hope your CNM is attending the birth as a coach and backup even if she doesn't actually "deliver" the baby. I really wanted to do homebirth but this is our first and DH is NOT ok with the risk of the unknown complications. That being said I plan to have minimum interference from hospital staff for our birth and I plan to leave as soon as possible. We will be at a hospital birth center with a CNM. Statistically, in the U.S. Homebirth for low-risk pregnancies is now as safe as (if not safer) than hospital when it comes to maternal and fetal death rates. It all depends on your risk tolerance.

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